San Francisco tries get tough approach with homeless

[Infohawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_sanfrancisco_homeless

Doesn't sound too tough:

There is some bite to the so-called Sit-Lie ordinance, which applies from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. First-time offenders receive a verbal warning, while second-time violators can be cited and fined $50 to $100.
Further offenders are subject to fines up to $500, and community service or jail time could also be required.

These people don't have any money. They're obviously never going to pay.

This is my favorite part and really explains San Francisco's problem:

Kieran, a 23-year-old homeless man from Canada who declined to give his last name, received a warning slip from police.
"You're not allowed to sleep anywhere, to sit anywhere, to lie anywhere," he said. "So where are you supposed to go?"

How about back home to Canada! In addition to state health care I'm sure you can get help. San Francisco attracts homeless people from around the continent apparently. How about if you can't show that you've lived in San Francisco for at least a year than you should be put on a bus to wherever you're from? It's one thing for San Francisco to take care of its own but it's another to become a social service provider for Canada.

 

[101mpg]

How's that utopia coming along?

 

[Infohawk]

How's that utopia coming along?

What do you mean?

 

[wuliheron]

San Francisco has some of the highest rents and real estate values in the country and this is their way of forcing the homeless to go elsewhere like nearby Oakland where rents are lower. Nobody wants to encourage people to stop paying rent and nobody wants to encourage the poor to move in. Otherwise they could house them cheap enough in any empty warehouse.

In Briton for awhile at least they set up a system where every winter they would crowd the homeless into mental institutions and every spring they would allow them to live on a particularly beach. They provided extra cops and whatnot to make sure they didn't kill each other or themselves too fast, but the US is larger and we prefer to just keep kicking them from one city to the next.

 

[Imdmn04]

It's one thing if you have fallen on hard times and another if you just want to do nothing with your life.

If you belong to the latter, then get a job, even a minimum wage job will allow you get some kind of section 8 housing and you can live on food stamps. But at least you can show people you are trying.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The city has a long history of being the Mecca of homelessness due to the handouts via social programs and non-profits who lobby the SF BoS for funding. Then you couple the lax/no enforcement of laws and you basically have the crux of the problem that SF has generated. Really there is no better city on the West Coast to be homeless in other then maybe Berkeley.

Oh and the Sit-Lie law started and was passed because of the residences and business owners in the Haight District (a district which is nowhere near being a conservative strong hold in any sort of the imagination) were feed up with the large group of aggressive young homeless (and often druggie) 20-something adults:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIHa8QyU2Ok

who sat in front of stores or residences with pit bulls and would basically intimidate and sometimes physically assault people for cash. To them its not about being homeless due to being out of work but more about being part of a dumb ass "homeless" lifestyle.

Edit: "Homeless groups" will always be complaining about money or lack of services etc despite the city throwing millions of dollars at the problem (and at these "non-profits") year, after year, after year, etc... .

 

[DucatiMonster696]

San Francisco has some of the highest rents and real estate values in the country and this is their way of forcing the homeless to go elsewhere like nearby Oakland where rents are lower. Nobody wants to encourage people to stop paying rent and nobody wants to encourage the poor to move in. Otherwise they could house them cheap enough in any empty warehouse.

In Briton for awhile at least they set up a system where every winter they would crowd the homeless into mental institutions and every spring they would allow them to live on a particularly beach. They provided extra cops and whatnot to make sure they didn't kill each other or themselves too fast, but the US is larger and we prefer to just keep kicking them from one city to the next.

Here's a big hint:

Section 8 housing in SF isn't hard to come by (If you aren't a criminal: drug dealer or part of a gang. In some cases those who now the system can over come these two sticky points) for the truly poor. Hell even illegals get housing in the city. So no, housing is not the issue.

 

[Jhhnn]

How about back home to Canada!

Yeh! If it's not teh ebil brown Messicans, it's the freaking Canadians who are to blame! Yeh, that's it.

Just cart them off to live with relatives somewhere in whitebread suburbia- it's all about family values, right?

 

[wuliheron]

Here's a big hint:

Section 8 housing in SF isn't hard to come by (If you aren't a criminal: drug dealer or part of a gang. In cases those who now the system can over come these two sticky points) for the truly poor. Hell even illegals get housing in the city. So no, housing is not the issue.

Some places it can take years to get into section 8 housing and, in the meantime, they live on the streets.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Some places it can take years to get into section 8 housing and, in the meantime, they live on the streets.

We're not talking about "some places" if you want to talk about SF. With the amount of services provided by city government (millions spent each year) there is no good reason to be homeless in SF any longer then you would have to be or any longer then it would take to hook up with any of the numerous agencies which provide shelter, food, work programs, etc.

 

[Infohawk]

Yeh! If it's not teh ebil brown Messicans, it's the freaking Canadians who are to blame! Yeh, that's it.

Just cart them off to live with relatives somewhere in whitebread suburbia- it's all about family values, right?

What is the matter with you?

 

[Jhhnn]

What is the matter with you?

Your bullshit offends me, that's all. Homelessness is an increasing problem in the wake of the financial elite looting spree commonly referred to as the Ownership Society, and in the dearth of jobs in many parts of America. The effect is very strong on young people, for whom job opportunities are very scarce. Homeless people aren't counted among the unemployed, either, bet on that. They're off the grid. Little Hoovervilles have sprung up all over the country, tucked away in unlikely corners of the urban landscape. One of the largest components of the New Homeless are young women with preschool children living out of their cars, women who had jobs and futures prior to the lootocracy turning their dreams to dust.

Not to mention that the Mythos of Haight-Asbury has attracted drifters and dreamers for decades, even though it never was what they thought it would be.

Chronically homeless people are usually damaged people, for one reason or another, often with mental, alcohol or drug problems, sometimes a combination of all 3. Borderline schizophrenics self medicate to quiet the voices in their heads, for example, and are incapable of holding any kind of job. So are lots of other chronically homeless individuals.

Following the usual right wing bullshit, we're on our way to becoming much like the world that Dickens lived in, and all that entails. Don't like that? The first thing you'll need to change is the way you think and what you believe in, along with a lot of other Americans..

 

[Infohawk]

Your bullshit offends me, that's all. Homelessness is an increasing problem in the wake of the financial elite looting spree commonly referred to as the Ownership Society, and in the dearth of jobs in many parts of America. The effect is very strong on young people, for whom job opportunities are very scarce. Homeless people aren't counted among the unemployed, either, bet on that. They're off the grid. Little Hoovervilles have sprung up all over the country, tucked away in unlikely corners of the urban landscape. One of the largest components of the New Homeless are young women with preschool children living out of their cars, women who had jobs and futures prior to the lootocracy turning their dreams to dust.

Not to mention that the Mythos of Haight-Asbury has attracted drifters and dreamers for decades, even though it never was what they thought it would be.

Chronically homeless people are usually damaged people, for one reason or another, often with mental, alcohol or drug problems, sometimes a combination of all 3. Borderline schizophrenics self medicate to quiet the voices in their heads, for example, and are incapable of holding any kind of job. So are lots of other chronically homeless individuals.

Following the usual right wing bullshit, we're on our way to becoming much like the world that Dickens lived in, and all that entails. Don't like that? The first thing you'll need to change is the way you think and what you believe in, along with a lot of other Americans..

You're just ranting. What does this have to do with my post or even this article?

 

[Steeplerot]

Hell even illegals get housing in the city. So no, housing is not the issue.

Except that none of this is true. You have to have valid california ID and background/bank account checks. Do us a favor, if you dont know wtf you are talking about stick to commenting on castro valley, you do not know shit about the city or how it works as you are not even from here.

That said, as a small business owner myself who deals with this issue daily in my neighborhood also this is the wrong way to handle things, and this is not from Haight st. business owners, they voted overwhelmingly against it. This is from "specific whites". (a rich area of the City)

Yes, we deal with the every red states rejects and drunks as these folks in the rest of america do not take care of their own, so we have to shoulder the burden of the folks who fall through the cracks.

In my opinion people who show they want to work with social workers should be housed and helped with treatment and such. Those who come here to party can take care of themselves, good part of folks here who live in the parks dont get any welfare at all and feed their own camps. Its the random suburban kids coming to haight st to "slum it" who spare change and have the dogs are the problem. Mostly though they move on after a few months. It's the older habitual winos and drunks that are the aggressive pricks.

 

[BoberFett]

You're just ranting. What does this have to do with my post or even this article?

Jhhnhjnhnhn is unhinged, like most of the loony Democrats around here. The fact that Obama sold them out almost immediately after accepting their vote has taken a harsh toll on their unstable minds.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're just ranting. What does this have to do with my post or even this article?

It has to do with the mindless drivel of your commentary, particularly the bit about one homeless Canadian in San Fran, as if that's even a statistical blip on the breadth and depth of homelessness in this country.

I'll agree that American suburbia has been foisting off their problems and problem children on core cities for a long time, decades, but you offer no solution beyond derision.

 

[Steeplerot]

Jhhnhjnhnhn is unhinged, like most of the loony Democrats around here. The fact that Obama sold them out almost immediately after accepting their vote has taken a harsh toll on their unstable minds.

Speaking of leeches, looks like someones guilty conscience strikes again. You just cannot put a sock in it can you? Unemployed and too busy being a drama queen lol Get a job hippie.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Except that none of this is true. You have to have valid california ID and background/bank account checks. Do us a favor, if you dont know wtf you are talking about stick to commenting on castro valley, you do not know shit about the city or how it works as you are not even from here.

Never said they are legally allowed to get section 8 housing but there are approximately 148 persons whom are ineligible due to immigration status that are recipients of section 8 housing according to the SF Housing Authority.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Thousands-of-Illegal-Immigrants-Live-in-Public-Housing.html

The San Francisco Housing Authority has 148 ineligible noncitizens among its 28,611 people in federal housing, or 0.5 percent.

However there are various “non-profit” and for profit agencies in the city that are contracted to provide extended services some of whom help illegals find housing in the city and provide legal advice for renter/landlord issues. Furthermore the city issues its own ID for illegals which they can use to help obtain city funded services.

http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=110

http://www.techforpeople.net/~lrcl/index.php?topic=hire

Edit: I grew up in the Mission but every time some East Coast Left Wing transplant plays the “Native son” card (ala the left wing nutcase lord himself, Chris Daly or yourself) it makes me laugh out loud at the sheer irony of such a statement.

That said, as a small business owner myself who deals with this issue daily in my neighborhood also this is the wrong way to handle things, and this is not from Haight st. business owners, they voted overwhelmingly against it. This is from "specific whites". (a rich area of the City)

Bullshit. This was law was supported by business owners and residents in the area itself who complained over and over again about the issue.

Edit: Also it was not "heavily voted against in the Haight district", in fact it was pretty dead even in terms of no and yes votes.

Haight votes: Yes 4,236 No 4129 (Includes Election day and Mailed in Ballot results).

City wide it passed with 54% voting yes and 45% voting no.

http://www.sfelections.org/results/20101102/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/19/BA211FS90H.DTL

For Kent Uyehara, owner of FTC Skateboarding on the same block, the gangs of thugs are all too real. Just the other day, he was walking with his elderly mother and 10 intimidating youth with scary-looking dogs blocked the entire sidewalk and refused to move.
"Am I going to say something in that situation? Absolutely not," Uyehara said. "It's a fear of retaliation."

The specific “whites” you are referring to are those who first tried to turn this into a issue of “civil rights” and made hysterical claims about how this measure would end up with police arresting little children playing on the side walks and other stupid nonsense.

Yes, we deal with the every red states rejects and drunks as these folks in the rest of america do not take care of their own, so we have to shoulder the burden of the folks who fall through the cracks.

That’s your spin on the issue. The other side of the coin is that these people know full well that San Francisco offers them a good free ride with very little hassle in return and nice weather to boot compared to other areas of the US.

Furthermore your statement about red states is pretty laughable considering that these people come from every state/city in the union (including other cities in California) and in some cases outside the US to live out their “homeless” lifestyle. Then again who'da thunk Settle, Washington was a Red State?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/28/MNFU1CI2GN.DTL

In my opinion people who show they want to work with social workers should be housed and helped with treatment and such. Those who come here to party can take care of themselves, good part of folks here who live in the parks dont get any welfare at all and feed their own camps. .

Of course the issue was not about them “taking care of themselves” as much as how they were doing it and it was by using aggressive pan handling tactics and coupled with the open selling of drugs in the area and other issues of public safety and quality of life in the neighborhood itself.

Its the random suburban kids coming to haight st to "slum it" who spare change and have the dogs are the problem. Mostly though they move on after a few months. It's the older habitual winos and drunks that are the aggressive pricks.

Of course this is based on your opinion and not the factual causes and reasons why business owners and residences in the area were complaining so much that it eventually lead to the creation of this law of which was not due to "suburban kids slumming it in SF" hence the uproar by homeless "advocates" in the city.

 

[Steeplerot]

Never said they are legally allowed to get section 8 housing but there are approximately 148 persons whom are ineligible due to immigration status that are recipients of section 8 housing according to the SF Housing Authority.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Thousands-of-Illegal-Immigrants-Live-in-Public-Housing.html

Less then 1% of people on section 8 in SF have disputed immigration problems they are figuring out..oh noes! The whole system is corrupt!

This is how different then any other town? We do not have a "cushy" system, its bad weather here to be homeless and we do not give people "free shit".
You cannot even get cash assistance here without working for the city cleaning buses or picking up trash unless you are seeking SSI for being disabled. (and the city STILL gets every cent back we give you when you get your first SSI retro check)

And I am a small business owner who pushes bigass shopping carts full of shit from the front of my place all the time. Most homeless are cool and sweep up for a few bucks or watch out for peoples cars so they dont get broken into and chase thieves off. You obviously dont have a clue how to treat our "mobile" neighbors.

 

[Infohawk]

It has to do with the mindless drivel of your commentary, particularly the bit about one homeless Canadian in San Fran, as if that's even a statistical blip on the breadth and depth of homelessness in this country.

I'll agree that American suburbia has been foisting off their problems and problem children on core cities for a long time, decades, but you offer no solution beyond derision.

I never said that Canadian homeless people were statistically significant. That was your stupid assumption. The solution for San Francisco is to take care of their own and not try to deal with the entire country's homeless. Go back to your mindless ranting.

 

[_GTech]

I think it's an utter travesty that Americans aren't standing up and demanding aid to these poor homeless people, rather they think it's OK to just push them around and use legislation to make them do as they say, and not lend one finger to help them.

Many people lost their jobs, homes, and are homeless for those reasons alone, but rather than ask the community to support them, they would rather shew them away with legislation, good job San Francisco Legislators, you heartless bastards.

And police say enforcement is still driven by compassion.

Right, here is a $50-$100 Fine (Up to $500 on 2nd offense), I hope that helps you in your homeless endeavors, truly. Lies...
If you enforce this law on your fellow citizens you aren't an American.

 

[boomerang]

I think it's an utter travesty that Americans aren't standing up and demanding aid to these poor homeless people, rather they think it's OK to just push them around and use legislation to make them do as they say, and not lend one finger to help them.

Many people lost their jobs, homes, and are homeless for those reasons alone, but rather than ask the community to support them, they would rather shew them away with legislation, good job San Francisco Legislators, you heartless bastards.

Why not charter some buses and take them to Kansas City?

 

[_GTech]

Why not charter some buses and take them to Kansas City?

We have lots of abandoned building for them to live in, truly, but the weather here is harsh compared to San Fran, furthermore it's snowing right now as we speak, so would that be a good thing for these people?

Kansas City already has lots of homeless people, and the numbers are growing nationwide, what we need, since the government isn't obviously going to help them, is for people who are well to do to take them in. Like they did for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, which is where many of them migrated to, and Kansas City received them in open arms!

 

[DCal430]

Sad that we even have homeless people. Property housing or shelter is a human right. These people are being deprived of their rights and diginity.

What is worst is you have people living in lavish mansions while these people die from exposure.

 

[boomerang]

We have lots of abandoned building for them to live in, truly, but the weather here is harsh compared to San Fran, furthermore it's snowing right now as we speak, so would that be a good thing for these people?

Kansas City already has lots of homeless people, and the numbers are growing nationwide, what we need, since the government isn't obviously going to help them, is for people who are well to do to take them in. Like they did for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, which is where many of them migrated to, and Kansas City received them in open arms!

You've got internet, that makes you more well to do than they are. Open your arms. Don't expect more from others than you're willing to give yourself.