San Fransisians say only criminals can have guns 11-9-05

[irie]

For a city that claims to be an icon of freedom they sure are doing a good job of trampling all over the personal rights of its citizens. Not bad, strike down two constitutional amendments in one day. What a joke. Good luck to the citizens of San Fran. You will need it. You are on your way to living like that movie Demolition Man.

Be Well and have some Taco Bell on me.

 

[Steeplerot]

I am sure SF needs no taco bell, the only taco bell I knew of went out of buisness.

that stuff is awful! babyfood in a tortilla, why eat that with good mexican resturaunts with real burritos and tacos.

tacobell=barf imo

give me a real mission burrito anyday. I never understood the hardshell "taco" thing anyway.

BTW what do you mean by "two" amendments?

Also, life is not a movie :laugh:

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: misterj
no we don't. if you do, you are putting yourself in the wrong situations. obviously we are talking about civilians here, not police or army.

this is not 1776 when you need a musket in case the redcoats invade your plantation or your slave tries to escape. we have local and federal police and are a modern superpower. we are trying to reduce the extreme excess of violence plaguing our society now, not liberate ourselves from the british.

What if some crook breaks into my house? Am I putting myself in the wrong situation?

 

[Steeplerot]

Hey speaking of the "new generation" there you are!

So what if the sky falls, or you get hit by a falling plane, your paranoia is your master.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Hey speaking of the "new generation" there you are!

So what if the sky falls, or you get hit by a falling plane, your paranoia is your master.

In either of those situations I am dead. Answer the question.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: misterj
boy i was way off, i apologize. perhaps the demographic map would show higher concentrations in certain areas than others. i obviously, don't live in such an armed area, and am saddened to see that many of you do. hopefully something will change before your children grow up and learn they may have to kill someone outside of war..

The main thing is location, you live in the Republik of Kalifornia. Specifically Orange County (according to your profile). That's just about as anti-gun as you can possibly get, other than DC or Chicago. There's no hunting in your area to speak of, and draconian legislation prevents nearly everyone else from owning anything. Move to most other areas, however, and you'll see a very different picture. Kalifornia is an anomoly.

Orange County anti gun? Obviously you are talking out of your hat. Orange County is about as conservative as you can get.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but having a large conservative voting bloc doesn't equate to pro-gun environment. The Republik has only issued 45,120 CCW permits in a state with population of over 35,000,000. Again, look at Washington (a HIGHLY liberal democrat state) with 200,000 permits for only 6,000,000 residents. 1/5 the permits distributed over 6 times the population does NOT allow any room for pro-gun rhetoric.

And it's not just ccw reasons...there's far less huntin in southern Kali than in many other states. The huge percentage of ultra-urbanized areas makes for less need of a firearm for rural reasons (varmint/coyote getting, etc) as well, though there's certainly plenty of backarea still.

I realize that opinons vary from area to area, but the RoK is just about the MOST anti-gun state in the nation...not THE most, but dang close.

 

[Vic]

The heart and soul of the "gun control" issue is not violence, accidents, dangers, murder rates, hunting, self-defense, militia, revolution, peace, safety, or anything of that sort. It is elitism. This is the one issue the anti-gun nuts don't want to see, and certainly don't want noticed, which is why they use their many straw men, and when successful in their agenda actually make claims that guns have been banned and done away with, that they are actually seeking the destruction of all guns when nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, the anti-gun nuts are not seeking anything they claim to be seeking, but are actually seeking a 2-tiered society of authorities and slaves. Those who are allowed to possess and use the power of violence and those who are not. This is their ideal utopia. Controllers and controlled. A la Plato's The Republic. The enforcement of strict order and control by a few for the benefit of the many regardless of whether the many like it or not. Naturally, that strict control could not possibly take place until the those who are to be controlled are disarmed. And why should they be armed, the would-be controllers, say? They are the ugly masses, sick and twisted and stupid, lacking of any redeeming qualities, who cannot be trusted with freedom and must be controlled for their own good. That is the real logic of gun control.

Steeplerot is just a pawn of fascism. A phony rebel. He supports a system of violent control over the people, such as is only possible when the people are completely disarmed before the power of authority. He does not realize this because he does not know what fascism is. What he does know is that he hates people, so anything he can do to stick it to them sounds like a good idea. Thus he is easily controlled by authority.

 

[Steeplerot]

Vic you need to get a dictionary and look up fascism lol :roll:

Yeah, I am so authoritarian...what a joke.

Oh wait it's the liberal conspiracy again...err fascist conspiracy.....or whatever.

if you all are sooo convinced that the us government has a hidden fascist agenda waiting behind the wings to violently control us all then why dont you get proactive now?

Just like a poster before you, your rant sounds like the unabomber manifesto...good job, you paranoid wingnuts..look out or the evil left boogeyman is gonna getcha!

 

[Vic]

The Washington state analogy doesn't quite apply, as the state is so extremely divided politically. In Seattle, you have people so ignorantly leftist (for example) that they still favored building that new monorail, knowing that the corruption that had infected the project was going to cost 20 times more than the project itself, simply because it represented a new tax and they like new taxes. That's just the tip of the iceberg even. Seattle is just as leftist as SF. A city where protesters gather to violently demand new restrictions on their freedoms.
OTOH, much of small town rural WA state is extremely conservative, even neoconservative, especially the impoverished areas, with all that goes with that. Likewise, the extensive suburbs are mixed.
In the end, WA state is not "highly liberal" but only slightly liberal. Which is why many of their important elections of late have been so close, often requiring recounts.

 

[Steeplerot]

Here, to save these nuts from having to wear their little conspiracy ridden fingers out, I will just link the unabombers manifesto, what they are preaching.

http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Vic you need to get a dictionary and look up fascism lol :roll:

Yeah, I am so authoritarian...what a joke.

Oh wait it's the liberal conspiracy again...err fascist conspiracy.....or whatever.

I know far better than you what fascism is.

Nor did I say you are an authoritarian, I said you are a pawn of authority. There's a difference. Did you read the rest of my post? Or just the part where I addressed you?

Ask yourself... in what way do you actually oppose authority and support the rights and freedoms of the common people? Are you opposing or supporting authority by taking the right to gun ownership away from the people?

Like I said, you're a phony rebel and a pawn. Your type usually is. Typically found marching around street corners chanting "Down with Authority!" while begging for new laws, legislations, and restrictions against the people.

 

[Steeplerot]

And when have I ever said "Down with authority!"?

Or is it in your own paranoid mind with the evil gun grabbing leftists are waiting to unleash our dastardly plan of total fascist domination.

http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm ------> enjoy, birds of a feather.

 

[Vic]

I don't require convincing. The history of humankind is an almost unbroken string of tyranny, despotism, and oppression. The only reason you can ignore and mock such history is because you take for granted the prosperity and freedom which capitalism and limited democracy have given you.

I must say too that I find it odd that you, an anti-technologist, have posted the manifesto of the Unabomber, a rabidly devout anti-technologist, as evidence against me, a technologist. As usual you are so ignorant that it really defies belief. I am not the Luddite predicting the collapse of society. I am not the enviro-whacko. Those are extreme leftist beliefs, like yourself.

I think I should note (despite my disagreements with his manifesto) that the Unabomber, Dr. Theodore Kaczynski, was even with his mental illnesses a renown genius, possessing an IQ in the 200 range and a doctorate in mathematics. I say this only because I think you have no fscking clue who the Unabomber was. He was not some ignorant radical fascist in a Montana cabin. He was a highly educated and intelligent anarchist leftist and anti-technologist seeking the destruction of human society for environmentalist reasons. Your political hero, I would think.

 

[Steeplerot]

Funny, your the one spouting his beliefs in here, and BTW anti-technologist bwahahaha!

Dude I am about as pro technology as you can get :laugh: nor am I a enviro-whacko, being responsible about our future is not whacko. :roll:

Anyhow nice to see you admit your admiration of the wingnut, like I said, birds of a feather.

Watch your back, the evil liberal conspiracy might getcha :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And when have I ever said "Down with authority!"?

Or is it in your own paranoid mind with the evil gun grabbing leftists are waiting to unleash our dastardly plan of total fascist domination.

http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm ------> enjoy, birds of a feather.

Ah, so now you love and support authority? That only proves my point that much more, you should realize....

Educate yourself on the Unabomber, dipsh!t -- Text

He was an anarchist, not right-wing. An anti-technologist. Just because he opposed leftism doesn't automatically make him a conservative or a fsckin' Republican, moron. Nor does pretending that it does make a valid argument in defense of your authoritarian elitism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Funny, your the one spouting his beliefs in here, and BTW anti-technologist bwahahaha!

Dude I am about as pro technology as you can get :laugh: nor am I a enviro-whacko, being responsible about our future is not whacko. :roll:

Anyhow nice to see you admit your admiration of the wingnut, like I said, birds of a feather.

Watch your back, the evil liberal conspiracy might getcha :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You really are about as stupid as stupid gets, aren't you?

 

[Steeplerot]

anarchism has many forms and there are plenty of anarchist right-wingnuts, hardcore capitalist libertarians are a great example.

And I never said I was anti-authority, EVER, your own paranoid mind may interpret it this way.

But this is par for the course with you all, one minute defending your godly country the next threatening to overthrow it over one old assed outdated amendment while ignoring the others yanked from underneath your own feet.

Paranoia rules the roost here, and the paranoid are the biggest support of a totalitarian regime and whacked out conspiracy theorys. Which your arguement of this vast liberal/fascist conspiracy and my own alleged anti-authority belief is nothing but symptoms of your disease.

 

[Vic]

Bah, you never win arguments, you just tire people out with your illogic, ignorance, stupidity, and immaturity. The highlight of your argumentative style is "I'm a rubberband and you're glue... " :roll:
For example, idiot, I never said you were anti-authority either. In fact, I made it quite clear that you are pro-authority. A phony rebel. A sheep.

You have done NOTHING to dispute my argument that anti-gun nuts are authoritarian elitists. Quite the opposite, you have supported it. I see no point in continuing a debate wth someone who is too ignorant to even understand what I am posting.

To your edit: :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

 

[Steeplerot]

I am not inside your twisted head, nor would I want to be. *shivers*

I am no fan of ignorance and intolerance and the paranoia that rules, it must be lonley, but no thanks.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I'm rubberband and you're glue...

:roll:

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I am no fan of ignorance and intolerance and the paranoia that rules, it must be lonley, but no thanks.

HAHAHAHA! That's funny, you must have forgotten about dozens of posts made by you in this thread alone where you were spewing ignorance and intolerance.

What a hypocrite.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yeah, I am angry and intolerant towards ignorance, hatemongers, racisism, and sexism. (oh yeah and stalkers too)

Sucks that it seems to go hand in hand with the people I bash, no apologies here.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think the measure will be shot down. Hehehe hahaha hohoho. Get it? Shot down! Oh man, I crack myself up.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Vic
The Washington state analogy doesn't quite apply, as the state is so extremely divided politically. In Seattle, you have people so ignorantly leftist (for example) that they still favored building that new monorail, knowing that the corruption that had infected the project was going to cost 20 times more than the project itself, simply because it represented a new tax and they like new taxes. That's just the tip of the iceberg even. Seattle is just as leftist as SF. A city where protesters gather to violently demand new restrictions on their freedoms.
OTOH, much of small town rural WA state is extremely conservative, even neoconservative, especially the impoverished areas, with all that goes with that. Likewise, the extensive suburbs are mixed.
In the end, WA state is not "highly liberal" but only slightly liberal. Which is why many of their important elections of late have been so close, often requiring recounts.

That's why I think it holds. Seattle may be extremely liberal, but eastern wa is a conservative area. This sounds much like SF and LA compared to orange county. No matter how 'close' the last election or two has been here, Washingtons history is so nearly one-sided it's freaky...much the same as the RoK.

I live in Cowlitz Co. You don't get much more rural or impoverished west of the mountains. This area is still STRONGLY moderate to liberal, despite the existence of some moderate conservative voice. Neocons don't last too long here for some reason.

All I meant to point out is that you can't associate gun rights/ownership with conservative political ties and then associate that on a county by county breakdown with the RoK. If liberal controlled washington has such an open gun policy you have to give up that particular crutch when discussing the kali issues.

 

[zixxer]

Everyone, in my opinion, ia missing the point.


Rural or not, outlawing guns will not stop the 'gangs' and 'drug dealers' and 'shots in the middle of the night'.

The people that do these sort of things are going have guns whether they are outlawed or not. You are NOT stopping hardly any 'unlawful' activity by outlawing guns.


I sleep with my xd9 loaded, with nothing in the chamber, in my bedside table. I have a CCW permit but do not carry. I own a gun for two reasons, and two only.

1) if someone breaks into my house they will HAVE to break a window or bust my door open. Right now I have no alarm, soon I will. If this happens I WILL have time to pull my gun out of a drawer, pull back the slide, and protect myself and any others in my room/bed/house from some crook (PROBABLY armed with a gun) ready to kill us so that they cannot be identified.

2) It's a hobby. I take it to a range and fire off a couple hundred rounds. It's cheaper than golf and more enjoyable to me.


bottom line is this. People hear guns and think drug dealer, murderer, etc. The VAST majority of people with firearms are NOT these type of people, and these type of people will NOT stop at a 'gun law'