Sandra Bland Dashboard Video Released

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NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Yes, badges grant extra rights. Is that even in dispute? The cop is there as the representative of Government; you and he are NOT on equal footing.

While I give you credit for admitting that Police are not held to the same laws that we are because of their badges (which most refuse to even see), I have to ask, do you know what kind of effect this has on a populace? You've segregated the people by class racism. Those above the blue line have Rights the rest of us don't. This encourages behavior mentioned in this thread and creates unfair treatment in the court of law.

 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
The cop repeatedly trolled her until he got what he wanted. She repeatedly did NOT "show her ass" to him until his fourth straight provocation troll, the sly bully. I don't think your brain is defective, I know how smart you are, so please look again in detail at the encounter.



You didn't see anything that the officer did that was out of line? Look again, look harder.

Don't think anyone posted this so this is the entire transcript:

The following exchange -- transcribed with the help of HuffPost's Matt Ramos and Dhyana Taylor -- comes after the dashcam video shows Encinia quickly driving toward the rear of Bland's car.



Attitude #1 from Bland
Bland: I'm waiting on you. This is your job. I'm waiting on you. When're you going to let me go?

Professional response
Encinia: I don't know, you seem very really irritated.


Attitude #2 from Bland
Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it's crap what I'm getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesn’t stop you from giving me a ticket, so [inaudible] ticket.

Professional response
Encinia: Are you done?

Attitude #3 from Bland
Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.

Professional response
Encinia: OK.

Attitude #4 from Bland
Bland: So now I'm done, yeah

Attitude #5 from Bland
Bland: You feelin' good about yourself?

Professional request
Encinia: Stand right here. Stand right there.

Attitude #6 from Bland
Bland: You feelin' good about yourself? For a failure to signal? You feel real good about yourself don’t you? You feel good about yourself don’t you?

Professional request
Encinia: Turn around. Turn around. Turn around now. Put your hands behind your back..

Legitimate from Bland
Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Professional request
Encinia: Turn around ...

??? from Bland
Bland: Why can't you ...

Professional request
Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. I will tell you.

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times
Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Professional command
Encinia: Turn around!

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times
Bland: Why won’t you tell me that part?.

Professional command
Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. Turn around ..
.

And so it continues.

She kept trying to push the buttons and refused to listen.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Attitude #1 from Bland

Professional response


Attitude #2 from Bland

Professional response

Attitude #3 from Bland

Professional response

Attitude #4 from Bland

Attitude #5 from Bland

Professional request

Attitude #6 from Bland

Professional request

Legitimate from Bland

Professional request

??? from Bland

Professional request

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times

Professional command

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times

Professional command.

And so it continues.

She kept trying to push the buttons and refused to listen.

Okay, so everyone is expected after being pulled over for a ticket be be all Ned Flander's peachy about it right? Everyone is tense and upset at being pulled over by a cop in the moment. She is not expected to be all sunshine rays and butterfly rainbow farts. The cop however is expected to NOT behave the way he did based on his training. He is expected to take attitude in stride. Her giving terse comments is not something to go into power trip mode over despite having the capacity to do it. She was very mild with her attitude too and he was the one the escalate things into belligerency. Which is pretty much why he is on administrative leave at the moment as is at the very least looking at a major reprimand for his actions according to the news media down here in Texas. Which he rightly deserves. So your defense of his actions are indefensible. And no, his command for her to step out of her vehicle when she said no to his command to put out the cigarette (which he has no legal authority to do) was NOT professional. It is what escalated the whole scenario and did not need to be done.
 
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Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
136
Okay, so everyone is expected after being pulled over for a ticket be be all Ned Flander's peachy about it right? Everyone is tense and upset at being pulled over by a cop in the moment. She is not expected to be all sunshine rays and butterfly rainbow farts. The cop however is expected to NOT behave the way he did based on his training. He is expected to take attitude in stride. Her giving terse comments is not something to go into power trip mode over despite having the capacity to do it. She was very mild with her attitude too and he was the one the escalate things into belligerency. Which is pretty much why he is on administrative leave at the moment as is at the very least looking at a major reprimand for his actions according to the news media down here in Texas. Which he rightly deserves. So your defense of his actions are indefensible. And no, his command for her to step out of her vehicle when she said no to his command to put out the cigarette (which he has no legal authority to do) was NOT professional. It is what escalated the whole scenario and did not need to be done.

It's mind boggling reading Officer Cabri's post. The difference between the comments he calls attitude and the comments he calls professional doesn't appear to be linked in any way to the content of the comments. The only connection to whether something was professional or not seems most closely related to which person made the comment and whether or not that person was a cop.

If anyone should be all sunshine rays and butterfly farts it should be the cop. He has been given the power to make people do things they don't want to do and to force people to stop doing things that they do want to do. He should do so with kindness and professionalism. This isn't too much to ask of a grown-ass adult who has been given power and impunity that most of us can't even dream of.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
136
Forcefully pulling someone over for not using a turn signal is a pretty big button.

Especially after you just illegally tailgated that person so closely that they felt threatened. It would probably piss anybody off if a cop illegally intimidated them into taking an action that led to the cop pulling them over to give them a ticket and even more attitude. Seriously, why the fuck do cops do this? Does it make them feel good to be assholes? Do they derive some kind of narcissistic pleasure from doing wrong to others and getting away with it?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Especially after you just illegally tailgated that person so closely that they felt threatened. It would probably piss anybody off if a cop illegally intimidated them into taking an action that led to the cop pulling them over to give them a ticket and even more attitude. Seriously, why the fuck do cops do this? Does it make them feel good to be assholes? Do they derive some kind of narcissistic pleasure from doing wrong to others and getting away with it?

They have "quotas" for citations written for money needed to operate. A car with out of state plates is the easiest "target".
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The topic of this morning's break was how many people had received a warning ticket versus a ticket. All races (whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians), and sexes were represented, some of which live in Waller county where this took place. The majority had received warning tickets or verbal warnings for minor traffic violations and the only ones that had received a ticket were those who were going more than 10 miles over the limit, speeding in a school zone during the hours of reduced speeds, and in a work zone with workers present. Some experienced officers that were overbearing but still wound up with a warning ticket that came along with a stern warning not to be caught again in the following 12 months or the ticket would be reinstated. Some received a verbal warning.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
They have "quotas" for citations written for money needed to operate. A car with out of state plates is the easiest "target".

Keep in mind, the cop here was writing a _WARNING_ Why does this seem to pass a lot of you by?

Also, I haven't even seen a video on how he pulls her over? Only after the confrontation starts...


The topic of this morning's break was how many people had received a warning ticket versus a ticket. All races (whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians), and sexes were represented, some of which live in Waller county where this took place. The majority had received warning tickets or verbal warnings for minor traffic violations and the only ones that had received a ticket were those who were going more than 10 miles over the limit, speeding in a school zone during the hours of reduced speeds, and in a work zone with workers present. Some experienced officers that were overbearing but still wound up with a warning ticket that came along with a stern warning not to be caught again in the following 12 months or the ticket would be reinstated. Some received a verbal warning.

I've only ever had a warning (verbal) once in my life. I was going something like 8-11mph over if I recall. I think I sat there after the cop walked away... About to burst into tears and say "Did that just happen?"

I was so used to nothing but state troopers pulling me over for going 80 on the way back to college.... I always thought warnings were a myth :biggrin:
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The cop repeatedly trolled her until he got what he wanted. She repeatedly did NOT "show her ass" to him until his fourth straight provocation troll, the sly bully. I don't think your brain is defective, I know how smart you are, so please look again in detail at the encounter.

You didn't see anything that the officer did that was out of line? Look again, look harder.
I disagree, but that is immaterial. There is no tit for tat here; a smart person maintains her cool even if she is being "disrespected" because that's what is in her own best interest. This trooper's respect (or lack thereof) for her made absolutely zero difference in her life until she let it. Then it led to her taking her own life.

While I give you credit for admitting that Police are not held to the same laws that we are because of their badges (which most refuse to even see), I have to ask, do you know what kind of effect this has on a populace? You've segregated the people by class racism. Those above the blue line have Rights the rest of us don't. This encourages behavior mentioned in this thread and creates unfair treatment in the court of law.

Granted, but this is the same for all of government. I don't start out with equal rights to Barak Obama; he is free to change my health insurance at his whim.

This is socialism, folks, and it is necessary for civilization. When we band together for the common good, we necessarily give up some of our freedom and some of our treasure in the expectation that we're better off in the long run. There is no working scenario where we have the same rights and privileges as cops and yet cops still function. That said, we can and should work to make cops accountable and hold them to a higher standard than we currently do, but that imbalance of power is inherent in having police.

How's that working for ya?
Works great. The two times I've encountered unreasonable cops I've held my temper. Once I accepted my ticket and my tongue-lashing and it was dropped because he was fired (nothing to do with me, but for behavior typical to that I had seen) before it went to trial. The other time I did as I was told and consequently was not arrested so it ended there. And I have no need to go armed, which I prefer to avoid although I strongly support the right to do so.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perknose
The cop repeatedly trolled her until he got what he wanted. She repeatedly did NOT "show her ass" to him until his fourth straight provocation troll, the sly bully. I don't think your brain is defective, I know how smart you are, so please look again in detail at the encounter.

You didn't see anything that the officer did that was out of line? Look again, look harder.

I disagree, but that is immaterial. There is no tit for tat here; a smart person maintains her cool even if she is being "disrespected" because that's what is in her own best interest. This trooper's respect (or lack thereof) for her made absolutely zero difference in her life until she let it. Then it led to her taking her own life.

I hate to say it, but I had no hope at all that a second look would make the slightest difference. You live with a delusional and defective belief that everybody has the capacity to control their reactions to being disrespected. This is because your morality requites a black and white world that admits to no shades of gray. But in the real world, it wouldn't take anybody with any real skill any time at all to break you. Even I wouldn't have to push very hard to be accused of hearing voices.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
136
Possum, I think what you are missing is that most of us are arguing for what would be right in a just world. You are arguing for what people should do in the name of temporary self interest. Most of us behave exactly how you are suggesting to behave toward cops, whether there is disrespect from the cop or not. But being nice and courteous to a cop who is being abusive or condescending or an outright asshole isn't the solution to the problem. It is a band-aid that doesn't solve the bigger ailment. The bigger issue is the cops' ability to treat people unprofessionally, illegally, and inhumanely, and to get away with it. Not many other professions on Earth let you get away with that kind of behavior. Don't you have any ideas or thoughts on how we can rectify this? Do you even see it as the problem? Or should we choose to live our lives as subservient bootlickers who have given up absolute authority over our lives to people who would abuse it?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Last I checked not violating the law increases your chances of never having to deal with the police.

If you violate the law you must be willing to deal with the consequences of doing so, if you are rude to the police do not expect all of them to be nice in return.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Attitude #1 from Bland

Professional response


Attitude #2 from Bland

Professional response

Attitude #3 from Bland

Professional response

Attitude #4 from Bland

Attitude #5 from Bland

Professional request

Attitude #6 from Bland

Professional request

Legitimate from Bland

Professional request

??? from Bland

Professional request

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times

Professional command

Legitimate from Bland but also challenging the officer - ignoring what he has stated multiple times

Professional command.

And so it continues.

She kept trying to push the buttons and refused to listen.


I love how you skip the entire taser part and when he grabbed her out of the car.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
211
106
Wrong, this cop was power trippin

Cop > Civilian
Man > Woman
White > Black

All things that should have made a professional de-escalate instead of prolonging.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,294
6,352
126
Last I checked not violating the law increases your chances of never having to deal with the police.

If you violate the law you must be willing to deal with the consequences of doing so, if you are rude to the police do not expect all of them to be nice in return.

Didn't you read what werepossum said: "I disagree, but that is immaterial. There is no tit for tat here; a smart cop maintains his cool even if he is being "disrespected" because that's his job as a professional. This person's, in violation of the law, respect (or lack thereof) for him made absolutely zero difference in his life until he let it. Then it led to his causing a suicide or maybe a murder in jail.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Last I checked not violating the law increases your chances of never having to deal with the police.

If you violate the law you must be willing to deal with the consequences of doing so, if you are rude to the police do not expect all of them to be nice in return.

Knowing several SA police officers personally, having a next door neighbor be one, I can tell you that if a cop wants to find a reason to pull over a driver they can. Not a damn thing you can do about it either. Cops do shit on purpose that makes people drive in a way that is "breaking" the law in some way. Doesn't even matter how good of a driver you are either. There are tons of tricks cops can do to make a driver take their focus off driving and do something they aren't suppose to do while driving.

Many of these tricks are how cops are able to pull over people they believe have other crimes they may be doing to "investigate" the car. Known plenty of cops that see a junker car with some less than reputable looking young men in a car. They tailgate, rush at them, flash lights, or a few other tricks to get the driver to focus on the police car and not the road to mess up. Then they pull them over for whatever driving infraction the cop forced the driver to do. While writing out the ticket the cop is trying to ascertain if the men in the vehicle are running drugs, if there are any criminal passengers with warrants, or other things. Many a big drug bust has happened just by these methods. There are actual training classes for cops for this.

So if the police want to "deal" with you, then not violating any laws isn't going to stop them.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
Knowing several SA police officers personally, having a next door neighbor be one, I can tell you that if a cop wants to find a reason to pull over a driver they can. Not a damn thing you can do about it either. Cops do shit on purpose that makes people drive in a way that is "breaking" the law in some way. Doesn't even matter how good of a driver you are either. There are tons of tricks cops can do to make a driver take their focus off driving and do something they aren't suppose to do while driving.

Many of these tricks are how cops are able to pull over people they believe have other crimes they may be doing to "investigate" the car. Known plenty of cops that see a junker car with some less than reputable looking young men in a car. They tailgate, rush at them, flash lights, or a few other tricks to get the driver to focus on the police car and not the road to mess up. Then they pull them over for whatever driving infraction the cop forced the driver to do. While writing out the ticket the cop is trying to ascertain if the men in the vehicle are running drugs, if there are any criminal passengers with warrants, or other things. Many a big drug bust has happened just by these methods. There are actual training classes for cops for this.

So if the police want to "deal" with you, then not violating any laws isn't going to stop them.

That is probably the only part you have right
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Last I checked not violating the law increases your chances of never having to deal with the police.

If you violate the law you must be willing to deal with the consequences of doing so, if you are rude to the police do not expect all of them to be nice in return.

And all laws are equally just.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
That is probably the only part you have right

Agreed. The whole "cops drive in a way to make you break the law" stuff is ridiculous. You can either drive a car because you have the skills or you can't because you are a squid.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
And all laws are equally just.

Laws are supposed to be gender and color blind.

If not, blame the people that wrote them and get them changed.

Major problem is that people that are not gender and/or color blind think that they can skirt the law because of such.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Agreed. The whole "cops drive in a way to make you break the law" stuff is ridiculous. You can either drive a car because you have the skills or you can't because you are a squid.

Your monkey-sphere needs to grow.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Laws are supposed to be gender and color blind.

If not, blame the people that wrote them and get them changed.

Major problem is that people that are not gender and/or color blind think that they can skirt the law because of such.

Major problem? Really?

Get a grip.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I hate to say it, but I had no hope at all that a second look would make the slightest difference. You live with a delusional and defective belief that everybody has the capacity to control their reactions to being disrespected. This is because your morality requites a black and white world that admits to no shades of gray. But in the real world, it wouldn't take anybody with any real skill any time at all to break you. Even I wouldn't have to push very hard to be accused of hearing voices.
Yes, I do believe that everybody has the capacity to control their reactions to being disrespected. If one does not have the capacity to control one's own reactions, why should one expect the world to make allowances for one's own shortcomings?

Possum, I think what you are missing is that most of us are arguing for what would be right in a just world. You are arguing for what people should do in the name of temporary self interest. Most of us behave exactly how you are suggesting to behave toward cops, whether there is disrespect from the cop or not. But being nice and courteous to a cop who is being abusive or condescending or an outright asshole isn't the solution to the problem. It is a band-aid that doesn't solve the bigger ailment. The bigger issue is the cops' ability to treat people unprofessionally, illegally, and inhumanely, and to get away with it. Not many other professions on Earth let you get away with that kind of behavior. Don't you have any ideas or thoughts on how we can rectify this? Do you even see it as the problem? Or should we choose to live our lives as subservient bootlickers who have given up absolute authority over our lives to people who would abuse it?
Problem is we're never going to have a perfect world, and throwing a tantrum because the world isn't perfect just makes the world materially worse. Here we have a young woman in the prime of her life who ends up dead leading from a failure to signal a lane change. Absolutely no one benefits from this; it is the poster event for making the world materially worse.

We all need to remember that we are imperfect beings in a world chock full of other imperfect beings. We can't control other people, but we CAN control ourselves. Perhaps Encenia is a perfectly nice young man who had simply had a horrible day and reacted badly. Perhaps he is an asshole to the core. I don't know, but we are all going to meet up with both categories on a daily basis, and how we react, how we control ourselves or fail to do so, determines the world we live in. WE make the world we live in, day by day.

Three more thoughts on your last few sentences. First, there is a middle ground between showing your ass to a cop and living our lives as "subservient bootlickers who have given up absolute authority over our lives to people who would abuse it." Always, always, ALWAYS pick your battles. Life is the entirety of your days, not one chance encounter. If a cop is in the wrong, decide right then whether his being in the wrong is a battle you need to fight, period. A cop being an asshole to me doesn't materially affect my life either way except to make one ten minute period less pleasant. As I am a big boy and no one promised me eternal pleasure, I am fine with that. If I decide it is something I need to fight, then I am going to do so with the odds stacked in my favor. That means ideally with a lawyer - my own professional - but at the least, in the proper venue. I literally could not care less whether that cop respects me, but if he is writing me a ticket I don't think I deserve, then I'll fight it - but not on the side of the road, because that is guaranteed to make his case stronger and mine weaker.

Second, if the cop is showing his ass, then you showing yours is guaranteed to make him show his worse. Every time. (Bullies can be sometimes backed down, but not bullies with badges.) Stop and think if that is an outcome you find desirable. On the other hand, you keeping your cool MAY make him behave more reasonably.

Third, there are many ways we can make this less of a problem. For instance:
1. Adopting the military-style training as I mentioned earlier where volunteers actively try to push the cop's buttons and get him to react poorly. This not only helps cops develop restraint, it can also be helpful in weeding out people who by temperament have no business being cops.
2. Widespread adoption of body cameras. As a representative of government a cop has the presumption of being in the right - he has to, to serve his function - but we all know he won't always be in the right. So trust, but verify. Knowing that their actions are being recorded will help keep cops honest and help keep honest cops out of court.
3. For situations such as Ferguson, get cops back to walking a beat at least part of the time. Nowadays cops too often drive by, only seeing people when there is a crime committed. Cops show up and usually can do nothing about the crime and seldom otherwise interact with the people they are nominally protecting, so the people lose faith in the cops and the cops lose faith in the people. Cops don't know the people, so they start to see them as one faceless mass rather than individuals, and the people don't know the cops so they see them as much as predator as protector.
4. Train cops to recognize that blacks especially have valid reasons to distrust cops, especially in the South, as the cops were the ones who enforced Jim Crow and often the ones who protected those who preyed on blacks both officially and criminally. Cops should understand that some black people will have unreasonable views about cops, have some legitimate reasons to hold those views, and will therefore act unreasonably toward cops. So even though in principle everyone should be treated equally, training cops to treat black people with kid gloves helps cops achieve their purpose, a safe and law-abiding society. Cops treating black people better than other people simply helps blacks understand that cops aren't intentionally treating them worse than other people.
5. Train cops and more importantly their political bosses to recognize that although arresting really bad people for minor offences like pot is a good societal thing, hassling everyone (or everyone in a particular area) for minor offences is a bad societal thing. It simply convinces the locals that the cops are their enemies. The fucking poster child for this is Eric Garner, ultimately being killed while being arrested for being the twenty-first century match girl. Yes, we all know how much you want all your tobacco taxes, but having a population that sees cops as enemies is far too high a price.

/wall o'text
 
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