Sandy Bridge Socket

mejobloggs

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Aug 17, 2009
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I don't know if my info is correct, but I've heard Sandy Bridge is going to be quite an improvement, and isn't too far away

Does anyone know what socket Sandy Bridge will be? Or has Intel not said? I can't find anything

I was hoping I could get an i5-750 now, and use the same motherboard for a Sandy Bridge cpu later
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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It's a year away, if you think that is short.

The socket is 1155 for what we know so far but they might have Gulftown successor so maybe they'll have equivalent for both.

But compatibility is up in the air. Don't hope for it.
 

mejobloggs

Member
Aug 17, 2009
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K I'm definitely going to wait for Sandy Bridge then if it's a different socket

Will just have to bottle my upgrade bug for a while

*twitch*
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
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From what I've heard, Sandy Bridge is just a minor evolutionary upgrade. The only real reason to get it is so that you have an upgrade path to 22nm Sandy Bridge later on, but I'm not so sure that is worth waiting a whole year for. 32nm Sandy Bridge might be worth it over 45nm quads, but you can still get 32nm Gulftown in a couple of months if you are into that sort of thing or wait until next summer to get 32nm (1156?) nehalem quads.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: drizek
From what I've heard, Sandy Bridge is just a minor evolutionary upgrade. The only real reason to get it is so that you have an upgrade path to 22nm Sandy Bridge later on, but I'm not so sure that is worth waiting a whole year for. 32nm Sandy Bridge might be worth it over 45nm quads, but you can still get 32nm Gulftown in a couple of months if you are into that sort of thing or wait until next summer to get 32nm (1156?) nehalem quads.

- There are no 1156 32nm quads on the roadmap in 2010.
- Sandy Bridge is the "tick" in Intel's strategy, which means a new architecture (like Nehalem is to Conroe).
- 32nm Gulftown will just be a shrunken 6-core Nehalem with no architectural improvements and $1k+ price tag to boot as far as I read.
- Sandy Bridge is expected Q1 2011 so it's more like 1.5 years away.
- Even if Sandy Bridge was compatible with 1156, the lack of proper power regulation/circuitry as a result of a new architecture would make it incompatible with the current P55 chipset. Let's not forget how often Intel changes chipsets!

Reasons to wait:
- SATAIII
- USB 3.0
- PCIE 3.0
- SSD pricing going way down
- if your computer is faster enough for your needs, why waste $?

Reasons not to wait:
- new hardware will always superceed old hardware. After Sandy Bridge, there will be another new architecture in 2 years, etc.
- if you can sell your current parts, you may be able to upgrade on the cheap ($<200)
- it's fun upgrading since it may be your hobby (i.e., some of my friends spent $200 to go from Iphone 3G to 3GS, which to me makes no difference in life, while they are still running E6300 cpus - to each his own)
 

drizek

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Jul 7, 2005
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Sandy Bridge is the "tick" in Intel's strategy, which means a new architecture (like Nehalem is to Conroe).

Yes, it is a new architecture, but it won't be like Nehalem was to Conroe. Performance/clock is not going to go up significantly from what I understand, certainly not the 0-60% improvement in performance that came with nehalem.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: RussianSensation

- There are no 1156 32nm quads on the roadmap in 2010.
- Sandy Bridge is the "tick" in Intel's strategy, which means a new architecture (like Nehalem is to Conroe).
- 32nm Gulftown will just be a shrunken 6-core Nehalem with no architectural improvements and $1k+ price tag to boot as far as I read.
- Sandy Bridge is expected Q1 2011 so it's more like 1.5 years away.
- Even if Sandy Bridge was compatible with 1156, the lack of proper power regulation/circuitry as a result of a new architecture would make it incompatible with the current P55 chipset. Let's not forget how often Intel changes chipsets!

BTW, Sandy Bridge and Nehalem are Tocks. It must have confused people because "Tick" is usually the first in line(you know, from a clock, tick comes before tock), but since they count Pentium D 65nm/Core Duo as Tick, new architectures are Tock.

I hear Gulftown will have one lower than the EE. So you might be able to buy at $600.

EE: 2.4GHz base, 2.66GHz Turbo Mode
Non-EE: 2.4GHz base, 2.53GHz Turbo Mode

Turbo won't be impressive on Gulftown.

Originally posted by: drizek
Yes, it is a new architecture, but it won't be like Nehalem was to Conroe. Performance/clock is not going to go up significantly from what I understand, certainly not the 0-60% improvement in performance that came with nehalem.

The problem on Nehalem is that per core performance didn't go up significantly. Even accounting multi-threading, the improvements lie in average of 20%.

We'll see what happens.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Originally posted by: RussianSensation

- There are no 1156 32nm quads on the roadmap in 2010.
- Sandy Bridge is the "tick" in Intel's strategy, which means a new architecture (like Nehalem is to Conroe).
- 32nm Gulftown will just be a shrunken 6-core Nehalem with no architectural improvements and $1k+ price tag to boot as far as I read.
- Sandy Bridge is expected Q1 2011 so it's more like 1.5 years away.
- Even if Sandy Bridge was compatible with 1156, the lack of proper power regulation/circuitry as a result of a new architecture would make it incompatible with the current P55 chipset. Let's not forget how often Intel changes chipsets!

BTW, Sandy Bridge and Nehalem are Tocks. It must have confused people because "Tick" is usually the first in line(you know, from a clock, tick comes before tock), but since they count Pentium D 65nm/Core Duo as Tick, new architectures are Tock.

It's because the tick/tock are referenced within the process node viewpoint, not the IC architecture. New node always starts with tick, and ends with tock.

Kinda goes to show which one, process vs. architecture, is the one that plays a larger role on the minds of the decision makers. And with no surprise, the world talks about $7B capex numbers, we don't really get all that excited/interested in what Intel is spending on IC design.

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
The problem on Nehalem is that per core performance didn't go up significantly. Even accounting multi-threading, the improvements lie in average of 20%.

We'll see what happens.

Yeah Nehalam seemed to be about the uncore - IMC, PCU, shared L3$ - and not so much about the core (added SMT, some would say recycled is the appropriate term).

So far what we've seen from Tick/Tock since Core's introduction over Netburst has really been more of a micro-iteration baby-step approach versus an actual new architecture in the sense of the term that I think most people thought Intel was intending to use the term when they splashed "Tock = New Architecture" across all their PR slides.

When folks hear "new architecture" they think P3 vs. P4, P4 vs. Core, K6 vs. K7, K10 vs. BD, etc. We don't think Phenom vs. PhII.

Nehalem brought the ability to process more threads per socket, but as a Tock was it really a new architecture? Look under the hood, how different is the pipeline, execution units, etc? Looking at the core comparison (see that other thread) versus clarkdale and it doesn't look like Sandy bridge is going to be much more of an evolution of Clarkdale's core...again not going to be what people were probably thinking it was intended to be based on Intel's use of the wording "new architecture" in the PR slides.

I know I am making near-baseless nitpicks here, but they reflect a higher expectation I held on my part for seeing single-threaded performance improvements come from this era of 1B xtor budgets...I'm unimpressed with what has come of it all thus far. I get cheaper computing, but not necessarily faster computing these days.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

BTW, Sandy Bridge and Nehalem are Tocks. It must have confused people because "Tick" is usually the first in line(you know, from a clock, tick comes before tock), but since they count Pentium D 65nm/Core Duo as Tick, new architectures are Tock.

Ya you are exactly Tick/Tock Strategy! Thanks for pointing our my error

Idontcare, I think we'll be waiting a long time until there was a performance jump like P4D to C2D. That was a time when an E6300 1.86ghz was basically matching and beating most P4Ds at 3.4-3.5ghz. Right now Nehalem 4.0ghz is not equal to a 7.8-8.0ghz C2Q.
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
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I think Sandy Bridge is the one that puts a gpu core into the package, I'm not sure if it will be any better than the current i5 or i7 in terms of performances. but anyhoo, if you can wait a year, then you also get to see what amd come up with and even if you getting i5s it will be cheaper and the 32nm versions should be out by then, heard you can oc to like 4.5-5ghz with that one that might be worth the wait of a year.

btw, what are you using for day to day now?
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
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The problem on Nehalem is that per core performance didn't go up significantly. Even accounting multi-threading, the improvements lie in average of 20%.

Thats why I said Sandy Bridge won't be interesting until it hits 22nm, because 32nm Sandy Bridge isn't going to have significantly higher clocks, if at all, than 32nm quad Nehalem.

People wanting to buy a quad core right now are in a bit of a tough spot it seems. 32nm quads won't be out for a while, Clarkdale is a downgrade from C2Q and Gulftown is ridiculously expensive.
 

alyarb

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Jan 25, 2009
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i'm sure larrabee will only be integrated on the mainstream-> low end models. the mid range will probably be 4C/8T and 8C/16T for the high end.

I would hope for a new core but don't expect it to be as dramatic a departure as conroe was from netburst. i wouldn't expect details this far away from launch anyway, but i am interested in the 256-bit vectors because the DP gflops will go through the roof generally speaking, for an x86 device.

it doesn't appear much can be done to boost IPC dramatically. how do you propose to predict 30 branches ahead of time anyway? the strategy for the time being seems like they want to optimize power efficiency, give it a big TDP budget, and let turbo mode mitigate the single-threaded work with higher clocks. otherwise you're just going to make the die bigger, and the increase in IPC will be much-less-than-linear with relation to the die area increase. at least performance per clock is linear and your die stays the same size.
 
Dec 26, 2007
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I debated waiting for Sandy Bridge about a month ago. I now have an i7 920 based system. Here's why:

1: it will be 2 years or so before it becomes economical (i.e. yields have ramped to bring prices down from the intro levels)
2: my old system was over 3 years old (Athalon x2 5600+, 2 gb DDR2, etc), so when I'm ready to upgrade SB will be viable.
3: SB won't be an "upgrade" and will be a complete overhaul of the mobo
4: Other next gen techs (usb 3.0, PCIe 3, etc) will be out by then and hopefully have matured, so it will make sense to buy a new system entirely at that point
5: For $600 or so you can build a great system (either 1366 or 1156 based).

If you wait for SB, you will be waiting 2 years or so. Unless you have a relatively new system (i.e. Core/Phenom based), I'd upgrade now and then plan next upgrade for after SB is released.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
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Originally posted by: drizek
The problem on Nehalem is that per core performance didn't go up significantly. Even accounting multi-threading, the improvements lie in average of 20%.

Thats why I said Sandy Bridge won't be interesting until it hits 22nm, because 32nm Sandy Bridge isn't going to have significantly higher clocks, if at all, than 32nm quad Nehalem.

People wanting to buy a quad core right now are in a bit of a tough spot it seems. 32nm quads won't be out for a while, Clarkdale is a downgrade from C2Q and Gulftown is ridiculously expensive.

I actually think the opposite; you have inexpensive Bloomfields and Lynnfields available, C2Qs for a steal (9550 and better) and great choices in either Athlon X4 (cheap) or fast PhII's.

All of these quads are great choices IMHO.
 

drizek

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Jul 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Originally posted by: drizek
The problem on Nehalem is that per core performance didn't go up significantly. Even accounting multi-threading, the improvements lie in average of 20%.

Thats why I said Sandy Bridge won't be interesting until it hits 22nm, because 32nm Sandy Bridge isn't going to have significantly higher clocks, if at all, than 32nm quad Nehalem.

People wanting to buy a quad core right now are in a bit of a tough spot it seems. 32nm quads won't be out for a while, Clarkdale is a downgrade from C2Q and Gulftown is ridiculously expensive.

I actually think the opposite; you have inexpensive Bloomfields and Lynnfields available, C2Qs for a steal (9550 and better) and great choices in either Athlon X4 (cheap) or fast PhII's.

All of these quads are great choices IMHO.

Ya, but none of them are really any better than the 920 which was out a year ago. You save a hundred bucks or so, but I think people who waited for Lynnfield would have been better off jumping on a Bloomfield CPU/X68 once they dipped below the $400 mark.
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: alyarb
I would hope for a new core but don't expect it to be as dramatic a departure as conroe was from netburst. i wouldn't expect details this far away from launch anyway, but i am interested in the 256-bit vectors because the DP gflops will go through the roof generally speaking, for an x86 device.

AVX won't address some of our complaints though. See how much Barcelona gained with 2x the FP power over Athlon 64 X2.

Yeah Nehalam seemed to be about the uncore - IMC, PCU, shared L3$ - and not so much about the core (added SMT, some would say recycled is the appropriate term).

I'm still liking Sandy Bridge over Haswell.
 

Idontcare

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Yeah Nehalam seemed to be about the uncore - IMC, PCU, shared L3$ - and not so much about the core (added SMT, some would say recycled is the appropriate term).

I'm still liking Sandy Bridge over Haswell.

Meaning you consider Haswell to be a step back from Sandy, or am I misunderstanding the post?
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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Probably not, but things like Larrabee integration, or FMA doesn't satisfy the people that isn't content with Nehalem-style changes(like you said couple of posts ago). See my comment about doubled DP FP on the last post.

I'm assuming Larrabee integration and "radical" MA changes kinda go hand-in-hand. Maybe its the first CPU that will integrate GPU features into the pipeline, one that will blur the boundaries between the two. But will that help everyone? Probably not.
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
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Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Originally posted by: alyarb
I would hope for a new core but don't expect it to be as dramatic a departure as conroe was from netburst. i wouldn't expect details this far away from launch anyway, but i am interested in the 256-bit vectors because the DP gflops will go through the roof generally speaking, for an x86 device.

AVX won't address some of our complaints though. See how much Barcelona gained with 2x the FP power over Athlon 64 X2.

who is complaining? most of us want more FP for multimedia transcoding. most single-threaded mainstream apps are fast enough on a modern architecture, and intel feels the same way. that's why they're focusing on turbo mode and dynamically allocated power efficiency than another risky, revolutionary pipeline that throws inordinate amounts of die area at branchy bullshit. that would only encourage people to write shittier code and postpone the eventual transition to LRBni or what-have-you. if you read the last paragraph in my post, i kind of addressed that.
 

imported_Lothar

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Aug 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: mejobloggs
I don't know if my info is correct, but I've heard Sandy Bridge is going to be quite an improvement, and isn't too far away

Does anyone know what socket Sandy Bridge will be? Or has Intel not said? I can't find anything

I was hoping I could get an i5-750 now, and use the same motherboard for a Sandy Bridge cpu later

Regardless of what socket Sandy Bridge will be on, I'm pretty sure it will be electrically incompatible and would require a new motherboard.

Don't waste your time thinking about longevity of 1156 or 1366.
 

imported_Lothar

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Aug 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Originally posted by: drizek
From what I've heard, Sandy Bridge is just a minor evolutionary upgrade. The only real reason to get it is so that you have an upgrade path to 22nm Sandy Bridge later on, but I'm not so sure that is worth waiting a whole year for. 32nm Sandy Bridge might be worth it over 45nm quads, but you can still get 32nm Gulftown in a couple of months if you are into that sort of thing or wait until next summer to get 32nm (1156?) nehalem quads.

- There are no 1156 32nm quads on the roadmap in 2010.

So what is Intel's strategy for 32nm regarding Nehalem die shrinks?
1156- Clarksdale (2 cores with HT)
1366- 6 core Gulftown which will cost $$$.

What will fill the gap in the middle where the i7 920, i7 860, and i5 750 currently exists?
I'll be damned...If it's only what I listed here then I better decide between getting an i7 920 or an i5 750 right now...And fast!

Are you saying "No Nehalem 32nm quads at ALL" or that there will be none on socket 1156???
No "quad core" at all for 32nm Nehalem?
I want 4 physical cores...Whether the 4 physical cores includes HT on top of that or not is irrelevant.
 
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