SATA, it's been nice knowin' ya! (PCIe SSDs in new Macs)

[Eug]

You've probably heard that the New Mac Pros come with PCIe SSDs. Well to my surprise the MacBook Airs also have PCIe SSDs.

So basically, the top end pro Macs have PCIe SSDs, and that's no surprise, but Apple's entry level consumer laptops also have PCIe SSDs.

And quite frankly, I'm happy to hear it. I've been wondering for years when motherboards would forego SATA for SSDs, and go to PCIe directly. However, I expected this would happen in the desktop space first, not with entry-level laptops.

Here's Anand's (p)review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7058/2013-macbook-air-pcie-ssd-and-haswell-ult-inside

800 MB/s read/write on Apple's entry level laptop, with a 256 GB drive.

 

[Essence_of_War]

However, I expected this would happen in the desktop space first, not with entry-level laptops.

To be fair, this isn't groundbreaking idea in the desktop space. These options have existed, but they really haven't been particularly affordable compared with SATA options. See for example:
OWC for Mac Pros and PCs:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/PCIe/OWC/Mercury_Accelsior/RAID
OCZ:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227710

It certainly IS exciting that they're being put into "entry-level" devices.

 

[WildW]

Laptops will benefit the most from an SSD due to 2.5" hard disks being such slowcoaches. Best thing they could have done.

Hoping to see a new Mac Mini getting a similar treatment.

 

[Eug]

What I meant about happening first in desktops was to see it in higher end but mainstream machines, as a standard or common optional feature, from a big name brand company. As it stands now PCIe SSD is rare, and PCIe is actually a problem because booting off it is an issue with many OSes.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Ah. You're certainly correct about that then.

I'm crossing my fingers that this means something dramatic has happened to make PCI SSD much less expensive. Apple doesn't manufacture their own ssds, so if they're able to sell devices with reasonable capacity ssds, that should mean that consumers should be able to buy them directly in the near future!

 

[Eug]

I don't understand why PCIe SSD has to be expensive in the first place. Current PCIe SSDs are better built than most consumer drives, aimed at enterprise, but there's nothing stopping OEMs from building consumer class PCIe drives. Well, nothing except the fact you can't boot off them much of the time.

Apple has turned that on its head now. Apple had the option of simply including the drivers in their OS as a standard feature, something that companies like Lenovo or Dell couldn't do with Windows. Their cheapest laptops now boot off PCIe SSD, and don't even have an option for SATA SSD... and blow away most of the SSDs in existence performance-wise, too.

The only problem with the Air though is that it's using a propietary interface (which is not uncommon for Apple).

So, Apple jumpstarted the SSD revolution in laptops, and now it seems Apple is jumpstarting the PCIe SSD revolution in consumer-oriented computers.

 

[Sheep221]

I don't understand why PCIe SSD has to be expensive in the first place. Current PCIe SSDs are better built than most consumer drives, aimed at enterprise, but there's nothing stopping OEMs from building consumer class PCIe drives. Well, nothing except the fact you can't boot off them much of the time.

Apple has turned that on its head now. Apple had the option of simply including the drivers in their OS as a standard feature, something that companies like Lenovo or Dell couldn't do with Windows. Their cheapest laptops now boot off PCIe SSD, and don't even have an option for SATA SSD... and blow away most of the SSDs in existence performance-wise, too.

The only problem with the Air though is that it's using a propietary interface (which is not uncommon for Apple).

So, Apple jumpstarted the SSD revolution in laptops, and now it seems Apple is jumpstarting the PCIe SSD revolution in consumer-oriented computers.

You can boot from PCIe and conventional PCI slot using drive supplied for it directly or conventional SATA/IDE drive via adapter.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Well, nothing except the fact you can't boot off them much of the time.

Is that true? I don't have much experience with them, but I thought that they worked fine for booting.

So, Apple jumpstarted the SSD revolution in laptops, and now it seems Apple is jumpstarting the PCIe SSD revolution in consumer-oriented computers.

I guess so. I'd be careful calling pci ssd a "revolution" though. Performance difference between just about any ssd and an HDD really is revolutionary and noticeable in just about every context. Performance difference between a sata6 ssd and a pci ssd is like a power of two or so, right, and I suspect that for most users the difference won't be obvious.

It's difficult, for example, to reduce seek times further when they're already essentially 0.

 

[Eug]

I'm no expert on this either but...

You can't just buy an off-the-shelf PCIe SSD and stick it in an off-the-shelf mainstream motherboard and expect to be able to install an off-the-shelf pre-boxed version of Windows 7 or Windows 8 on it. You can do it with device-specific drivers though.

To put it another way, a lot of people had problems getting Windows to install at all on bootable PCIe SSDs, but managed to do it after searching through various forums to get advice on dealing with the idiosyncracies of the driver install process.

 

[thomascwhitfield]

You've probably heard that the New Mac Pros come with PCIe SSDs. Well to my surprise the MacBook Airs also have PCIe SSDs.

So basically, the top end pro Macs have PCIe SSDs, and that's no surprise, but Apple's entry level consumer laptops also have PCIe SSDs.

And quite frankly, I'm happy to hear it. I've been wondering for years when motherboards would forego SATA for SSDs, and go to PCIe directly. However, I expected this would happen in the desktop space first, not with entry-level laptops.

Here's Anand's (p)review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7058/2013-macbook-air-pcie-ssd-and-haswell-ult-inside

800 MB/s read/write on Apple's entry level laptop, with a 256 GB drive.

Thats insane

 

[thomascwhitfield]

Laptops will benefit the most from an SSD due to 2.5" hard disks being such slowcoaches. Best thing they could have done.

Hoping to see a new Mac Mini getting a similar treatment.

The reason 2.5" drives in laptops are so slow is because usually they are cheap 5400rpm drives.

 

[thomascwhitfield]

Is that true? I don't have much experience with them, but I thought that they worked fine for booting.



I guess so. I'd be careful calling pci ssd a "revolution" though. Performance difference between just about any ssd and an HDD really is revolutionary and noticeable in just about every context. Performance difference between a sata6 ssd and a pci ssd is like a power of two or so, right, and I suspect that for most users the difference won't be obvious.

It's difficult, for example, to reduce seek times further when they're already essentially 0.

agreed

 

[thomascwhitfield]

Ah. You're certainly correct about that then.

I'm crossing my fingers that this means something dramatic has happened to make PCI SSD much less expensive. Apple doesn't manufacture their own ssds, so if they're able to sell devices with reasonable capacity ssds, that should mean that consumers should be able to buy them directly in the near future!

I'm with you on "less expensive". I was looking at some a few years back and the smallest cheapest PCIe SSDs were several hundred if not thousands of dollars for any reasonable capacity.

 

[jpiniero]

Guess they couldn't wait for SATA Express.

 

[Cerb]

What I meant about happening first in desktops was to see it in higher end but mainstream machines, as a standard or common optional feature, from a big name brand company. As it stands now PCIe SSD is rare, and PCIe is actually a problem because booting off it is an issue with many OSes.

As it stands now, if you don't get a Mac, an SSD at all is rare, and I've yet to see a big OEM machine with an SSD that isn't being used for SRT. Most notebooks don't even have an SSD as an option (most people see small space and higher cost; Mac people get told what they should want ). An SSD as a main drive seems to only be for the high-end ones, from what I've seen. What's really annoying is that so many corporate notebooks don't get the option, when those users are the ones that need them most, and need higher capacity the least.

 

[sxr7171]

To be fair, this isn't groundbreaking idea in the desktop space. These options have existed, but they really haven't been particularly affordable compared with SATA options. See for example:
OWC for Mac Pros and PCs:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/PCIe/OWC/Mercury_Accelsior/RAID
OCZ:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227710

It certainly IS exciting that they're being put into "entry-level" devices.

So now it can "trickle up" to regular desktops.

 

[sxr7171]

Is that true? I don't have much experience with them, but I thought that they worked fine for booting.



I guess so. I'd be careful calling pci ssd a "revolution" though. Performance difference between just about any ssd and an HDD really is revolutionary and noticeable in just about every context. Performance difference between a sata6 ssd and a pci ssd is like a power of two or so, right, and I suspect that for most users the difference won't be obvious.

It's difficult, for example, to reduce seek times further when they're already essentially 0.

There's another thread here where the OP is talking about putting games on a RAMDisk. So this really removes a bottleneck for the future.

 

[sxr7171]

As it stands now, if you don't get a Mac, an SSD at all is rare, and I've yet to see a big OEM machine with an SSD that isn't being used for SRT. Most notebooks don't even have an SSD as an option (most people see small space and higher cost; Mac people get told what they should want ). An SSD as a main drive seems to only be for the high-end ones, from what I've seen. What's really annoying is that so many corporate notebooks don't get the option, when those users are the ones that need them most, and need higher capacity the least.

I think most ultrabooks come standard with SSD.

 

[John Connor]

God! They just came out with SATA III.

 

[Cerb]

I think most ultrabooks come standard with SSD.

It's recommended, but not required, and most of them are >$800 new, that include them. A few exceptions are out there, like Acer Aspires, but they sure do look they'd break if you looked at them funny.

God! They just came out with SATA III.

...4 years ago.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Man, that high-end with the i7 is sweet. Pretty tempting. I wish Anand had had that one to test against the others instead of the i5. I bet we'll see that soon.

 

[yinan]

Have to prevent myself from getting one of these and using my current SSD array as storage for my ESXi hosts....

 

[VirtualLarry]

A few exceptions are out there, like Acer Aspires, but they sure do look they'd break if you looked at them funny.

My Aspire One 722 (with SSD upgrade) survived a 2-foot drop onto cement. Got a tad bit scuffed on the side, but it seemingly folded closed when it fell. No LCD damage, thank God.

 

[Hellhammer]

It's recommended, but not required, and most of them are >$800 new, that include them. A few exceptions are out there, like Acer Aspires, but they sure do look they'd break if you looked at them funny.

The official Ultrabook spec requires at least a 16GB caching SSD. If the laptop doesn't have that, then the OEM cannot call it an Ultrabook since it's Intel's trademark

I don't understand why PCIe SSD has to be expensive in the first place.

The reason why most consumer/enthusiast orientated PCIe SSDs have been expensive so far is that they've just been two or more SSDs in RAID0. Additional costs come from the RAID chip, although I guess the biggest reason for higher prices is the lack of volume.

 

[Cerb]

The official Ultrabook spec requires at least a 16GB caching SSD. If the laptop doesn't have that, then the OEM cannot call it an Ultrabook since it's Intel's trademark

Weren't the Aspire S3 and HP Envy released w/o caching drives (IIRC, the Acer had a too-small boot/hibernate SSD--was it 8GB?)?