Save Stanley "Tookie" Williams

[jjones]

I hope Arnold remembers he's the Terminator.

 

[Deslok]

Originally posted by: mdchesne
Mr. Willaim's fact sheet and why we wish to save him

His execution date is set for December 13th of this year. After all his appeals ran out, he's pleading to the governer of California for clemency. Please save Mr. Williams. Ever since he has been in jail, he has devoted his life to getting kids off the street and away from gangs. His celemeny application is here.

You can sign the petition to spare Mr. Williams here

or email the governer himself at this email address: governor@governor.ca.gov
or this phone listing: 916-445-2841

save a MURDER- no thanks

 

[Starbuck1975]

shouldn't all gunmakers be put to death since their product kills so many people every year?

No.

The Constitution protects the right to bear arms, and gun manufacturers are an extension of that right...in the hands of responsible and law abiding citizens, guns in and of themselves are harmless...by your logic, perhaps we should put to death car manufacturers, or baseball bat makers, or knife producers...their products kill people too.

The Constitution does not protect gang banging thugs who have murdered people, and have now "repented" when faced with the reality of the punishment for their crimes, which in this case is the death penalty.

 

[Jadow]

F him. I'll flip the switch

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: Tab
Wiki

In 1979 Williams murdered Albert Owen, Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang, and Yee Chen Lin during two separate robberies. Owen had been taken into the backroom of the convenience store he worked and shot execution style in the back of the head. The Yangs and their daughter were all killed by close range shotgun blasts.

While it seems that he's done a lot to try to make up for what he's done, he still can't change the past.

True. But, sentences should be given based on their "threat to society." To do otherwise turns the judicial system into acts of revenge. If you want revenge, read the Bible then change your wants.

I do support the death penalty.

The individual is obviously sorry that he got caught. "Close range shotgun blasts to the back of the head" suggest that the intent was not to merely render them unconscious while they escaped. In fact, being close up and personal suggests that it was done partially for enjoyment.

This makes the individual a huge threat to society.

However, people can and do change and sometimes rather dramatically. Since peole will take actions to garner sympathy we don't really know if he has changed or not. Thus, the problem we face is knowing what his true intents are.

If we allow people to murder others and if they are caught allow them to be freed because they tell others not to murder then I imagine murders would escalate followed by extreme desires to "help" others so they can be freed. Murders would escalate because the murderers would know that if caught, and if convicted, and if given life or a long sentence, they can still escape most punishment.

No thanks. The jury who was close to the case decided this individual was a continuing threat to society and I refuse to second guess them.

FWIW, I also don't second guess the OJ Simpson or Michael Jackson verdicts.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
True. But, sentences should be given based on their "threat to society." To do otherwise turns the judicial system into acts of revenge. If you want revenge, read the Bible then change your wants.

If sentences are purely for the safety of society then many murderers shouldn't be in prison at all. How much of a threat to society is a man that killed his wife because she was cheating on him? There are probably a lot of one-time murderers in prison who really aren't a threat.

 

[Starbuck1975]

If sentences are purely for the safety of society then many murderers shouldn't be in prison at all. How much of a threat to society is a man that killed his wife because she was cheating on him? There are probably a lot of one-time murderers in prison who really aren't a threat.

Would you feel the same if one of these one time murderers killed someone close to you.

 

[Jadow]

the best rule of law is an eye for an eye

 

[smack Down]

I hate how it takes 25 years to kill some on death row.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

This innocence claim is ridiculous. The evidence against him is overwhelming: The victims were shot with Williams' gun. The guys who helped him commit the crimes testified against him, and a few others testified that he had confessed privately to them. He made at least one threatening remark to the jury during his trial, and after his conviction plotted the murder of correctional officers involving an escape attempt. This guy is a killer, through and through.

And what has he done since? Childrens books? Speaking out? A "change of heart"? I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. If a few shallow activists nominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize, at least the Academy has enough sense not to actually award him.

Now, I'm of mixed feelings about the death penalty, but if ever there was a poster candidate, Williams is it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
This innocence claim is ridiculous. The evidence against him is overwhelming: The victims were shot with Williams' gun. The guys who helped him commit the crimes testified against him, and a few others testified that he had confessed privately to them. He made at least one threatening remark to the jury during his trial, and after his conviction plotted the murder of correctional officers involving an escape attempt. This guy is a killer, through and through.

And what has he done since? Childrens books? Speaking out? A "change of heart"? I'm sorry, but that's just not enough. If a few shallow activists nominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize, at least the Academy has enough sense not to actually award him.

Now, I'm of mixed feelings about the death penalty, but if ever there was a poster candidate, Williams is it.

Yep and as I said the only reason I could see for commuting his sentence is that it would benefit society as a whole not for the sake of sparing him out of humanity as the Death Penalty doesn't take humanity into account. If it did then there would be no Death Penalty to begin with

 

[da loser]

does anybody actually think these are the only people he's killed or had killed?

give me a break.

 

[imported_Condor]

Y'know, if he brought just one victim back to life, I would vote for clemency. That should be fixed into our laws. If you kill someone and can bring them back to life, yours will be spared.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: smack Down
I hate how it takes 25 years to kill some on death row.

really.
he should've been toast a long time ago.

anyone who wants to be his apologist should ask themselves how sorry they would feel for Tookie if he had bumped off their relative with gunshot to the back of the head.

 

[maluckey]

You all know that I support Capital Punishment, but this one is tricky. I haven't read much on it, so my viewpoint may change after doing my homework, but at this moment I'm torn. If it is true that he has changed, and is no longer a threat then he should be live in Prison without parole.

However...I have seen various articles that have shown that he hasn't renounced his gang affiliations, denounced the Crips, or anything alse absolving other than writing kids books about anti-violence. I'm still not totally convinced that he is remorseful and not a danger to society.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Many people get religion after the fact. Possibly trying to avoid paying the price.

Do they get religion upon conviction or when their appeals start running out?

Funny how it only happens after the fact, never before.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Many people get religion after the fact. Possibly trying to avoid paying the price.

Do they get religion upon conviction or when their appeals start running out?

Funny how it only happens after the fact, never before.

Yep, the death penalty is pointless if all it takes to get the sentence commuted is to find religion after you've been convicted. Give them enough time and the promise of a commuted sentence and they'll all find religion.

 

[slyedog]

tookie is laughing in his cell at the people that are saying he has repented. he is an animal and the sooner we get rid of him, the better.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Many people get religion after the fact. Possibly trying to avoid paying the price.

Do they get religion upon conviction or when their appeals start running out?

Funny how it only happens after the fact, never before.

While some may be a self preservation instinct kicking in I would imagine for a lot of them prison is the first time they've had to confront the things they've done, life they've lived, etc. In addition many are likely exposed to things in prison that they wouldn't have been otherwise (prison ministries).

All pointless to argue though since religion or not they are still responsible for their crimes.

Also in this particular case religion doesn't seem to be a factor.

It wouldn't particularly hurt my feelings if he wasn't executed, he seems to be accomplishing a lot.

Viper GTS

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: shira
Ask yourself the question: Is it better for society if Williams is dead or alive? Or to put this another way: What does society gain if he's killed and what does society gain if he's allowed to live?

Since it's clear that Williams is doing a lot more alive then his death will ever accomplish, what possible reason can there be to kill him?

well said indeed.

 

[mdchesne]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: shira
Ask yourself the question: Is it better for society if Williams is dead or alive? Or to put this another way: What does society gain if he's killed and what does society gain if he's allowed to live?

Since it's clear that Williams is doing a lot more alive then his death will ever accomplish, what possible reason can there be to kill him?

well said indeed.

agreed

 

[Mail5398]

I say off with his head. They should have killed him at least ten years ago. Putting people on death row and letting them hang out forever is a joke. If I killed four people and then happened to find redemption then I would understand why I must be punished.

The worst part is he has no remorse. All of you who think he is innocent are the kind that get there Jones from watching CSI and Law & Order and think every case has to have DNA evidence and multiple witnesses.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: mdchesne

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: shira
Ask yourself the question: Is it better for society if Williams is dead or alive? Or to put this another way: What does society gain if he's killed and what does society gain if he's allowed to live?

Since it's clear that Williams is doing a lot more alive then his death will ever accomplish, what possible reason can there be to kill him?

well said indeed.

agreed

name the people he killed....without searching on the net.

You can't....know why? because the press is more focused on the stars and hollywood types trying to save this "man"...where were they when he butcherd 4 people on 2 seperate occasions, what have they done for the families that lost loved ones?

You say he has done more good in his life now, and that he should be saved...well the only reason he repented is because he got caught. Not because of some miraculous self enlightenment. The fact is the KNEW that killing was wrong he CHOOSE the path and now must walk it now matter where it ends...it is called responsiblity....he is preaching it to the kids it's time to show a little.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Mail5398
I say off with his head. They should have killed him at least ten years ago. Putting people on death row and letting them hang out forever is a joke. If I killed four people and then happened to find redemption then I would understand why I must be punished.

The worst part is he has no remorse. All of you who think he is innocent are the kind that get there Jones from watching CSI and Law & Order and think every case has to have DNA evidence and multiple witnesses.

Even IF he killed there's not enough evidence and there's reason to believe based on the evidence used to convict him that a jury could possibly acquit in a re-trial. Just because some judges didn't agree doesn't mean it's right. Especially since judges close ranks and are only likely to overturn a conviction and order a re-trial in cases where there's overwhelming evidence against the conviction.

Check out the PBS Frontline episode on this very subject. It paints a very painful and brutal picture of the reality of the system you seem to celebrate.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: smack Down
I hate how it takes 25 years to kill some on death row.

Thats only for people convicted before the DNA revolution. People convicted post 1996 have been executed at a much quicker pace.