Save Stanley "Tookie" Williams

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Kaieye

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,275
0
0
Someone wrote earlier that what does society gain by executing Williams? How about saving the Calif. taxpayers mucho bucks by executing him instead of keeping him alive? I figure lets say $20k(I know it is more than this to keep him incarcerated) times 25 years =half a million bucks.

 

MicroChrome

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
430
0
0
Have you figured out how much it cost to execute someone? I wonder if there are any breaks... Say, lethal injections vs. electric chair?

Do we have to pay for barrel? Can they get a request to be cremated? I'm know they get a last super. I sometimes wonder what it is we really pay for these services. I still think an inmate is treated better then the average elder citizens on medicate. Etc...Etc...
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
I don't believe that we as mere mortals, have the authority to kill anyone. Commute his sentence to life in prison. If there is a God, and what they teach is right, we have no right to kill anyone. Two wrongs do not make a right. I couldn't kill an animal, let alone a human, for any reason.

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't believe that we as mere mortals, have the authority to kill anyone. Commute his sentence to life in prison. If there is a God, and what they teach is right, we have no right to kill anyone. Two wrongs do not make a right. I couldn't kill an animal, let alone a human, for any reason.

I do know that Christian-Judeo-Islamic text have something to the effect of "man has control over the sword" or something like that... We can kill people if we need too...

Besides, that I wouldn't have a problem pushing in the syringe that'll ultimately kill this guy.
 

joshw10

Senior member
Feb 16, 2004
806
0
0
have fun with the pointless revenge killing! maybe you can pick up some tickets to the event on eBay.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
He's gaming the system and playing on emotion.
He's a thug, a cold blooded killer - period, end of discussion.

Watch him in his interviews - emotional ice, no remorse.

Light him up, society doesn't need him and won't benefit from him.

 

Purgatory-Z

Senior member
Jan 17, 2000
270
0
0
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Have you figured out how much it cost to execute someone? I wonder if there are any breaks... Say, lethal injections vs. electric chair?

Do we have to pay for barrel? Can they get a request to be cremated? I'm know they get a last super. I sometimes wonder what it is we really pay for these services. I still think an inmate is treated better then the average elder citizens on medicate. Etc...Etc...

Actually, it costs significantly more to execute someone than to give them life without parole. Here's the url discussing it: http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Here's a great article on the death penalty, probably been posted by someone already:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty

Interesting point of note is that most countries that one would consider more advanced, more civilized, have completely abolished the death penalty.
 

Xonoahbin

Senior member
Aug 16, 2005
884
1
81
Sign #64764.. this guy has changed his ways and has something to teach the youth of America. He needs to be allowed that chance. He can stay in prison without parole, but don't execute him. He has too much to teach.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
The guy was a mass murderer that executed people while they were neeling on the ground.

He can help to teach the youth of America by demanding he be executed and publicly admitting guilt for the crimes he committed. He can tell everyone that he deserves to die and he has made peace with God and does not bear anyone ill will.
 

Toasthead

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2001
6,621
0
0
Originally posted by: shira
Ask yourself the question: Is it better for society if Williams is dead or alive? Or to put this another way: What does society gain if he's killed and what does society gain if he's allowed to live?

Since it's clear that Williams is doing a lot more alive then his death will ever accomplish, what possible reason can there be to kill him?

because he commited crimes to which death was the punishment. It seems pretty simple to me.
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
0
0
Williams can claim any defense he wants, but he's had his day in court and has exhausted his alternatives short of a pardon from the governor.

If I may go off topic for a moment... I was a juror in a murder trial involving gang members. The man that was convicted was harassed and bullied by the rival gang leader to the point of losing it, went crazy with a gun and killed the gang leaders friend. Yes, he murdered someone- but the instigator skated off and now considers himself a victim. Maybe Stanley Williams thinks of himself as a victim too.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,560
835
126
Watch the BET special on him, it's obvious he was shafted, it's easy for people to say he has his day in court and exhausted his alternatives. If by that you mean he couldn't get the state to give him a fair trial, then yes you're right. Do you realize the original Jury pool had exactly 3 people of color in it. That would have been IMPOSSIBLE to happen by chance in LA. The final jury was made up of white people, 100 people brought in, 3 of color, that was deliberate. Regardless of what he's done in his life, he deserved a trial where he didn't get rail-roaded. He & Michael Conception (also was a founding member of the Crips) are pretty part of a small group with credibility enough to talk to young gang members about stopping the banging. I can say this, alive he will be in jail, unable to harm anyone. Dead he can't speak on peace. There are a lot of different Crip gangs around my area, and if he can get any to understand they need to stop, they need to keep him alive.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,560
835
126
Originally posted by: Kaieye
Someone wrote earlier that what does society gain by executing Williams? How about saving the Calif. taxpayers mucho bucks by executing him instead of keeping him alive? I figure lets say $20k(I know it is more than this to keep him incarcerated) times 25 years =half a million bucks.

how much is a human life worth? I don't mean his. His speaking have had impact on gang members. No, most won't stop bangin because he tells them to stop. But, hundreds of bangers have got out of the gang life because of him. If he could make 10 bangers see the light a year, that's worth way more then $20k a year. How many Social Workers do you think L.A. County has? They make far more then $20k a year, and I'm willing to bet however many they have dedicated to gang prevention. He can make a bigger impact himself on the same people who pay the Social Workers to change.

So we save some tax dollars if we execute him. With the side-effect of more murders. He has the power to stop some of the killing, even if it's a small percentage, let's say he helped save 20 people a year, that's only one thousand a person, pretty cheap for human life if you ask me. And I'm willing to bet he can save hundreds a year.

How much if a human life worth to you? I'd personally give money out of every check I get to help keep him alive.

 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,464
8
81
Originally posted by: QueBert
Watch the BET special on him, it's obvious he was shafted, it's easy for people to say he has his day in court and exhausted his alternatives. If by that you mean he couldn't get the state to give him a fair trial, then yes you're right. Do you realize the original Jury pool had exactly 3 people of color in it. That would have been IMPOSSIBLE to happen by chance in LA. The final jury was made up of white people, 100 people brought in, 3 of color, that was deliberate. Regardless of what he's done in his life, he deserved a trial where he didn't get rail-roaded. He & Michael Conception (also was a founding member of the Crips) are pretty part of a small group with credibility enough to talk to young gang members about stopping the banging. I can say this, alive he will be in jail, unable to harm anyone. Dead he can't speak on peace. There are a lot of different Crip gangs around my area, and if he can get any to understand they need to stop, they need to keep him alive.

Did you know that you are 100% incorrect???

Scratch BET this time & read page 48 of the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Response To Stanley William's Request For Executive Clemency!!!!!!!!!

In his petition for clemency, Williams makes the allegation that the prosecutor
?removed the only blacks from Stanley Williams? jury. (Petition for Executive Clemency,
Dated November 8, 2005, 10). This statement, apparently made to suggest there was a racialelement to the trial, is factually incorrect. In fact, the documented evidence demonstrates conclusively that there was a black juror on the case, and that that juror not only voted for guilt, but also voted for death.


Ignorance is bliss.



Hell............for that matter read the whole fvckin' report & realize WHY a jury has decided that this guy has to die.
 

racolvin

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2004
1,254
0
0
Originally posted by: Purgatory-Z
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Have you figured out how much it cost to execute someone? I wonder if there are any breaks... Say, lethal injections vs. electric chair?

Do we have to pay for barrel? Can they get a request to be cremated? I'm know they get a last super. I sometimes wonder what it is we really pay for these services. I still think an inmate is treated better then the average elder citizens on medicate. Etc...Etc...

Actually, it costs significantly more to execute someone than to give them life without parole. Here's the url discussing it: http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Here's a great article on the death penalty, probably been posted by someone already:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty

Interesting point of note is that most countries that one would consider more advanced, more civilized, have completely abolished the death penalty.


Ahh, see there's the problem. If you read those links, the exhorbitant costs is in the endless cycle of appeals and legal proceedings, i.e Lawyers Fees.

The death penalty cases should have an express lane with only 3 exits before termination: the first trial (strike one), 90 days later they get an Appeal. If the outcome of that appeal is an affirmation of the first verdict (guilty), then he goes straight to the chair within another 90 days - front of the line, NO WAITING. If that 1st Appeal contradicts the original verdict, then a 2nd Appeal is used. Ultimately, its a 2-out-of-3 proposition. All appeals are no more than 90 days apart, meaning that it is theoretically possible to have the execution done and over with inside of 180 days from the original conviction.

Why do I advocate this? A couple of reasons ...

1) Deterrent effect. Right now the death penalty has almost no deterrent effect because the criminals know it takes DECADES to get it done and thave an unholy number of appeals, etc. If a criminal knew ahead of time that he/she could be dead within 6 months if he commits the crime, he'd think alot more before doing it.
2) Reduced cost. The number of appeals and legal wranglings that go on for years costs a FORTUNE (see links above). I do not advocate wasting resources on people who have obviously decided that they don't want to play by the rules of a civilized society.

Now some of you will say "oh but legalized murder is civilized?" As a matter of fact, yes. A law-abiding society has the right to remove those who do not wish to play by the rules. That removal can either be temporary (jail time or "time out"), or if the violation is severe enough it can be permanent (death or exile but that isn't practiced any more since there isn't anywhere to send them). That same society has the obligation to make sure that the process is quick, accurate, and at a minimal cost, since those resources could be better used to benefit the society as a whole.

As for "redemption" in the religous sense. MANY criminals find "god" while in prison. Why? Because it sucks in jail. Lack of freedom, lousy amenities, getting beat up, or sexually used by Big Ed, King of Cell Block 8. Allowing criminals to go free or to not pay their full debt to society because they found "god" should NEVER be permitted. Given the way many religous bleeding-hearts respond, I can guarantee you that I would profess the ultimate religious conversion if it would get me out of jail, so why shouldn't they? Once they get out of paying their full debt, they can giggle all the way back to their old life and go right on violating the rest of us. The simple fact is that they are human beings who committed crimes against society in the HERE and NOW. Whatever afterlife they've decided on believing in has absolutely no bearing on the HERE and NOW under which they are being punished.

Why am I so opposed to considering some sort of religious salvation as a redeeming quality worthy of consideration?

Because religion and human government should NEVER mix like that. Whatever religious belief one has or manages to acquire while in prison is a PERSONAL thing, with no connection to the original crime or stated punishment for committing said crime. The commission of that crime is also a PERSONAL choice, knowing that if caught they would have to pay that price.

Ever wonder where spoiled children come from? Ever seen how spoiled children behave when they get punished by their parents? Finally, ever seen said spoiled children get out of their punishment when they act all apologetic and remorseful? If you've seen that in action, you're seeing the result of it in a society where a murderous thug like Tookie Williams can get out of paying the ultimate price by being all apologetic, remorseful, and suddenly religously-minded once he's in prison and facing the death penalty.

Is he truly guilty of the crime he was convicted for? I have no idea. But he is the self-admitted creator and leader of the Crips, so he is by definition partly responsible for all the robbery, rape, murder, assaults, vandalism, and sundry other crimes committed by the Crips. For that alone he should cook in his own juices ...
 

Chris A

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,431
1
76
Originally posted by: smack Down
I hate how it takes 25 years to kill some on death row.


It took that long for every one of his court apeals to get ran through the system. Notice that after all of those apeals went through none of his convictions were reversed. So to say that his trial was all circumstantial and part-racism is pretty stupid.
 

carage

Senior member
Sep 20, 2004
349
0
0
Originally posted by: shira
Ask yourself the question: Is it better for society if Williams is dead or alive? Or to put this another way: What does society gain if he's killed and what does society gain if he's allowed to live?

Since it's clear that Williams is doing a lot more alive then his death will ever accomplish, what possible reason can there be to kill him?

In that case, you might as well advocate for abolishing death penalty altogher...
 

hurtstotalktoyou

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2005
2,055
9
81
I just changed my mind. I think Tookie should be spared. But why?

1) If he dies, the blacks might riot. We can't have that.
2) Although his "reformation" does nothing for his guilt, it does mean he can be safely imprisoned without threatening his fellow inmates.

The threat of riot is just too great. Why risk the uproar?
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
The guy was a mass murderer that executed people while they were neeling on the ground.

He can help to teach the youth of America by demanding he be executed and publicly admitting guilt for the crimes he committed. He can tell everyone that he deserves to die and he has made peace with God and does not bear anyone ill will.

With such hatred and revenge in your heart, why is it you are not pulling the switch? Revenge is for children. You still have to ask what is gained and what is lossed by the spilling of blood of yet another, does one wrong turn deserve another? Jesus would think otherwise, right? Compassion along with God truly are dead.
 

carage

Senior member
Sep 20, 2004
349
0
0
Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
I just changed my mind. I think Tookie should be spared. But why?

1) If he dies, the blacks might riot. We can't have that.
2) Although his "reformation" does nothing for his guilt, it does mean he can be safely imprisoned without threatening his fellow inmates.

The threat of riot is just too great. Why risk the uproar?

Oh great, so now this is a racism issue.
Perhaps in the future death penalty should be based on population ratio.
So we can only execute one black for every ten whites executed.
They happy now?

Or perhaps the "justice system" has to cave in even more to suit their ethno-centrism so that we don't have to deal with riots?
This isn't Rodney King. That was a clear case of police brutality, at least excessive force on the cops part. However, for this guy, a well known gang leader, I don't think so.
If they want to riot, I don't mind sending all of them to prison where they belong.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
I just changed my mind. I think Tookie should be spared. But why?

1) If he dies, the blacks might riot. We can't have that.
2) Although his "reformation" does nothing for his guilt, it does mean he can be safely imprisoned without threatening his fellow inmates.

The threat of riot is just too great. Why risk the uproar?

That's one of the most condescending, elitist things I've ever seen on AT.

Outside of that, I'm against the death penalty because too often evidence turns up years later that either raises serious questions about the guilt of the executed or completely exonerates him or her.

If the death penalty cannot be perfect - ie only kill people who are truly guilty - then I would be much more open to it, but as it is it is unfair, often wrong, and extremely expensive.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |