Save the dell!!!!!

[imported_Zeke]

yeah I am on top of the admin and user changes, done that already, I also informed them that if they download any more screensavers I will not be fixing this hunk of junk again, and I think I even convinced them to get norton 2005. Perhaps this version shall not consume ALL the ram, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[addragyn]

This is why I now reccomend Linux or OS X to those home users. Otherwise just live with the likelyhood of an f'ed up system and doing a reinstall occasionall. Nobody should be running a machine directly connected to the net unless they need to.

Unless I'm being well paid, I do value my time, I'm not interested in educating people about spyware, running questionable "cleanup" programs, locking down services, flipping registry keys, doing the antivirus dance, trying to get people using limited accounts, etc. It's boring tedious work that never ends and is very unsatisfying. Playing catchup defense gets old quick.

The worst part about it? They'll always beat us. Because one of them can target all of us. Because writing their spyware is a fulltime job that pays well. Because one piece of spyware written by one company will have people working all over the globe to get it off their computer. Because they get a kick out of dissecting systems and know more about how our machines fundamentally work then we do. Because they are passionate about crafting a virus, much more so then we are about preventing it. Because they live, work, love this.

It's also our own fault. We tolerate these systems and continue to purchase more of them.

 

[MrChad]

Unless I'm being well paid, I do value my time, I'm not interested in educating people about spyware, running questionable "cleanup" programs, locking down services, flipping registry keys, doing the antivirus dance, trying to get people using limited accounts, etc. It's boring tedious work that never ends and is very unsatisfying. Playing catchup defense gets old quick.

But you are interested in teaching users how to use Linux or OS X?

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Unless I'm being well paid, I do value my time, I'm not interested in educating people about spyware, running questionable "cleanup" programs, locking down services, flipping registry keys, doing the antivirus dance, trying to get people using limited accounts, etc. It's boring tedious work that never ends and is very unsatisfying. Playing catchup defense gets old quick.

But you are interested in teaching users how to use Linux or OS X?

You don't have to. Once installed all they have to do is use the applications, and the "Start Menu" is pretty self explanatory. Just set it to boot to X and automatically log on one user for a seemless startup.

I did that for my sister in law and she had very limited experience with computers. Actually, I set it to dual boot with Windows (default to Mandrake) in case she wanted any "off the shelf" software (games, photo editing, etc). Then I recommended that she do anything "internet related" under Mandrake or else she will have to keep her AV, firewall and spyware software up to date (and run them often) as well as maintain current restore points. I even went so far as to include Mozilla and Opera for internet (deleted icons and start menu entries for IE) in case she did want to surf the net under Windows.

I placed icons on the desktop for "Mandrake Update", gave her the root password, told her to check it periodically, and she hasn't had any problems. Setting up her DSL (via DHCP) was also easier under Mandrake since the ISP (Bellsouth) included some silly installation CD for Windows which required several unnecessary steps.

The only reason she boots to Windows is to watch DVDs.

 

[addragyn]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Unless I'm being well paid, I do value my time, I'm not interested in educating people about spyware, running questionable "cleanup" programs, locking down services, flipping registry keys, doing the antivirus dance, trying to get people using limited accounts, etc. It's boring tedious work that never ends and is very unsatisfying. Playing catchup defense gets old quick.

But you are interested in teaching users how to use Linux or OS X?

Well it's pretty standard across the board. Start desired application and use it, Photoshop is the same on whatever platform. The only reason these people are "using" an OS is to run programs. So ideally the OS just gets the hell out of the way.

Pretty much anybody who can work a TV and remote can sit down at a contemporary OS with a GUI and get their business down. Do you always buy the same brand of TV so you don't have to learn a new remote? Do you have trouble with an iPod since you first used a Discman?

Most users, not the people posting on computer forums, don't have much thought invested in using their OS. How many times have you heard somebody confuse RAM and HD space? Tried to get somebody to do a right click during a support call? Then had to explain the same concept to the same person 1 month later. They don't get it, because they don't care to. They don't want to use the OS, it's the applications!

 

[addragyn]

Anymouse, have you checked out VLC for those DVDs? It plays nearly everything.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: addragyn

Originally posted by: MrChad

Unless I'm being well paid, I do value my time, I'm not interested in educating people about spyware, running questionable "cleanup" programs, locking down services, flipping registry keys, doing the antivirus dance, trying to get people using limited accounts, etc. It's boring tedious work that never ends and is very unsatisfying. Playing catchup defense gets old quick.

But you are interested in teaching users how to use Linux or OS X?

Well it's pretty standard across the board. Start desired application and use it, Photoshop is the same on whatever platform. The only reason these people are "using" an OS is to run programs. So ideally the OS just gets the hell out of the way.

Pretty much anybody who can work a TV and remote can sit down at a contemporary OS with a GUI and get their business down. Do you always buy the same brand of TV so you don't have to learn a new remote? Do you have trouble with an iPod since you first used a Discman?

Most users, not the people posting on computer forums, don't have much thought invested in using their OS. How many times have you heard somebody confuse RAM and HD space? Tried to get somebody to do a right click during a support call? Then had to explain the same concept to the same person 1 month later. They don't get it, because they don't care to. They don't want to use the OS, it's the applications!

I guess it depends on how he/she uses the computer. You are right that many users just want to use a handful of applications and that's it. However, what if the user buys a digital camera and wants to download photos via USB? The instruction manual certainly isn't going to have instructions for setting that up in Linux. What about if her DSL connection starts to flake out? Do you think her ISP's support group is going to be able to troubleshoot her connection in Linux?

Your analogy of remote controls and iPods is a bit of a stretch. While I understand your point, an operating system is much more complex user interface than a remote control. While OS and desktop environment developers strive to make their interfaces as intuitive as, say, a remote control, they still have a long way to go. Many household interfaces that should be second nature (programming a VCR comes to mind) are baffling to the majority of consumers.

I understand that most people do not care about the inner workings of their computers. But it's a bit presumptuous to assume that handing a Linux desktop to an average computer user will be far simpler than properly securing a Windows-based PC.

 

[addragyn]

But it's a bit presumptuous to assume that handing a Linux desktop to an average computer user will be far simpler than properly securing a Windows-based PC.

After years of working on this stuff presumption has nothing to do with it.

"However, what if the user buys a digital camera and wants to download photos via USB?"

As long as the camera is supported it's plug and play. Here's how it works on the Linspire systems WalMart and Staples are selling.
http://media.linspire.com/Lphoto/kiosk.swf

(I am not advocating Linspire here but they've put a good demo up.)

 

[mechBgon]

The worst part about it? They'll always beat us.

I maintain a small fleet of ~80 systems (mostly Win2000), set up with Restricted-User accounts (the domain equivalent of a Limited account), proper patching, and antivirus software. I check the ePolicy Orchestrator logs several times a day for signs of being "beaten" by these dread l33t virus writ><0rs. It's pretty clear they're after "soft" targets, judging by my track record. :evil:

I guess there was that one JS/NoClose home-page hijack a couple years ago, on a computer that was behind on its patches and where the antivirus software had stopped working... :roll: but so far, the practices I'm advocating are working IRL for me.

edit: BTW that thing would run better with another 256MB in it, Zeke Since it's based on i845E, you can use a maximum of four banks of RAM (where one double-sided module comprises two banks, and one single-sided module comprises one bank). So hopefully it has a single 256 in it now, and not a pair of 128's.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: bleeb

Originally posted by: Zeke
as I said before format is an absolute last resort

as i'm saying again, just do the clean install!! =)

I have to agree with bleeb on this one. You can spend days trying to clear out all the possible spyware crap that is loaded on that system when a format/clean install may run you half a day.

When a system is that far corrupt, it just isn't worth all the time it takes to clean it out and even when complete, the system doesn't seem to noticably perform better.

Just my 2¢

 

[LouPoir]

Once you get a certain level of spyware/adaware, even though yoiu try to remove it, it only helps out a bit. Sounds like it's FDISK time - re-install Windows.

IMHO

Lou

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: addragyn
Anymouse, have you checked out VLC for those DVDs? It plays nearly everything.

Actually, I have used VLC before, yet I didn't bother with it for that setup. I did, however, install all of the codecs with xine and mplayer which plays them all. What threw her off from using Mandrake for DVDs was a CD with "bonus content" (video) that didn't play correctly under Mandrake but played fine under Windows.

I will check out VLC again, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[imported_Zeke]

speaking of hijack....way to get off subject guys

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Deskstar
No extra charge for the sledge hammer for your old drive.

Forgive me for noticing, but isn't it a bit ironic discussing ways to kill a HD, with that username.

 

[Jolt2]

Zake, this is how I would handle the problem. To save time and keep or head from exploding, make them buy another hard drive. Take out old hard drive and put in new drive. Load Windows on new drive. Hook up old hard drive as slave drive. Boot into Windows and copy files over that you need to save from old drive to the new boot drive. Wipe old drive and use that drive for system backups. You could even put old drive in an extenal USB HD case to use later.

Your trying to save them some money by using up your time. Make them spend the money and they will think about viruus and spy-ware a little harder next time around. You can talk and talk to them about spy-ware and it seems to go in one ear and out the other. Make them spend some money and people tend to listen a little more. Use the old drive as a back drive and make them buy backup software. Set them up to make backup of their system. If it happens again, restore the backup. If they did not make the backup, then it is their problem and not your time.