Say goodbye to ISIS: Airstrikes begin in Syria

[MongGrel]

So we should make every atrocity around the world our responsibility when they also wish us harm? If so we'll be at war forever.

I say that we should protect the 'homeland' from our shores only. When we hit them over there, we just create more of what we claim to want to stop.

Sure there's a good idea.

Hide and let em get stronger and come at ya.

There is probably always going to be a war somewhere, grow up.

Unless Klatuu shows up or something.

 

[squarecut1]

So you'd endorse just letting people that have openly claimed war on you to just run amok and do what they want and are out to kill you publicly just to continue down that route and go on a genocidal spree and just ignore it then ?

Firstly, they are the result of our own unprovoked war against Iraq. Creating a mess there.

Secondly, you mean a rag tag militia thousands of miles away threatens a power whose military budget is more than the combibed military budget all around the world? If you seriously believe that, then I don't know what to say

 

[irishScott]

So we should make every atrocity around the world our responsibility when they also wish us harm? If so we'll be at war forever.

I say that we should protect the 'homeland' from our shores only. When we hit them over there, we just create more of what we claim to want to stop.

It's more than that. ISIS threatens our allies, our reputation, our influence, and yes stopping the humanitarian atrocities should be a concern as well.

This isn't just petty power squabbling either, isolationism only worked before the economy was globalized. The Iraqi forces were getting their asses kicked back to baghdad before ISIS took over, after saying that they had the situation under control (seems to be a pattern with the Iraqi military). Even the Peshmerga were pushed back. If we hadn't started air strikes all of this could have resulted in ISIS owning a significant supply of the world's oil. You really thing that wouldn't hurt? Never mind their message of global jihad would extend across the Pacific sooner or later.

Isolationism worked when international mobility was physically impossible for most and countries were largely self-sufficient. Those days are long over. Ironically the only countries practicing your foreign policy are the 3rd world shit-holes we're bombing.

 

[squarecut1]

For a country that meddles so much all over the world, the citizens of it are woefully lacking in history knowledge.

How many Americans know that Western powers have been doing this in the middle east for hundreds of years now? Directly fighting or playing one side against the other, purely for their own interest.

This is how a lot of the map of the current middle east got shaped. This is how the present day Saudi Arabia came into existence, when the British helped and incited the Arab tribes to rebel against the central Ottoman authority

You could read up a history book and look up the rhetoric used. It won't be much different than what we hear now.

Like I said, some things never change.

 

[irishScott]

For a country that meddles so much all over the world, the citizens of it are woefully lacking in history knowledge.

How many Americans know that Western powers have been doing this in the middle east for hundreds of years now? Directly fighting or playing one side against the other, purely for their own interest.

This is how a lot of the map of the current middle east got shaped. This is how the present day Saudi Arabia came into existence, when the British helped and incited the Arab tribes to rebel against the central Ottoman authority

You could read up a history book and look up the rhetoric used. It won't be much different than what we hear now.

Like I said, some things never change.

Yes, and it's gotten us some allies and a lot of cheap oil, without having to conquer and absorb a thing. But still, relating the recent air strikes to Imperialist and Colonial-era European actions is just absolutely meaningless in all but the most general respects. You might as well compare a horse-and-buggy to a modern car and say, "some things never change, people have been riding on wheels for hundreds of years."

And as for talking about lacking worldly knowledge, you conveniently left out the fact that the UK was at war with the Ottomans when it incited the Arab rebellion. A war you will now blame the Brits for I'm sure.

 

[squarecut1]

Yes, and it's gotten us some allies and a lot of cheap oil, without having to conquer and absorb a thing. But still, relating the recent air strikes to Imperialist and Colonial-era European actions is just absolutely meaningless in all but the most general respects. You might as well compare a horse-and-buggy to a modern car and say, "some things never change, people have been riding on wheels for hundreds of years."

What I mean is that it is the same old game of domination, with the same old rhetoric. It is the same old Western players as well. Really, nothing much has changed.

Yes, cheap oil we have. Unfortunately lots of innocent women, men and children have died so that we can drive our SUVs for that 30 mile commute from the suburbs.

And we continue to create more enemies. Why does Switzerland not have enemies? Is it because they spend their resources on their own citizens? People have health care access there, everyone. What a novel idea! We have a third world type of situation in our country, getting worse, but yes baby, we know how to hit them with those bombs!!

I should now go and thump my chest

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Looks like some Syrians need some help. Anyone interested?

From: Fares Chehabi [mailto:fachehabi@outlook.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 5:17 PM
Subject: Greeting from Syria,

Greeting,

Dear Friend, My names are Mr. Fares Chehabi,The head of chamber and commerce in Aleppo Syria. The full-blown civil War here in my country has killed over 190,000 people, half of whom are civilians. Bombings from the ISIS and government forces are destroying crowded cities,factories,homes,Banks and horrific human rights violations have been widespread and Basic necessities like food and medical care are sparse.Yesterday morning,US and and five Arab countries have launched air strikes against Islamic State group targets in Syria for the first time, using fighter jets, bombers and Tomahawk cruise missiles and the ISIS is retaliating all over destroying houses and establishments

I contacted you to assist me transfer my fund from the Gulf bank here to your country because business and economic situations have collapse since the Islamic state uprising and with recent bombing by the US and other Nations, everybody is running away and moving their businesses and fund to a safe country. Already the Australian government has sent 10 combatant war planes over Syria which has put everybody on their toes.

Please let this discussion be confidential between me and you only. I am ready to compensate you accordingly if you can assist me graciously.

Chehabi

 

[pcgeek11]

Hell, Kerry had a much more solid war record than Dubya, and he got Swift Boated.

That made me laugh.

His first command was Swift boat PCF-44, from December 6, 1968 to January 21, 1969, when the crew was disbanded. They were based at Coastal Division 13 at Cat Lo from December 13 to January 6. Otherwise, they were stationed at Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi. On January 30, Kerry took charge of PCF-94 and its crew, which he led until he departed An Thoi on March 26 and the crew was disbanded.

Dec 6 1968 until Jan 21 1969, About a month and a half.

Jan 30 1969 until Mar 26 1969, about a month.

All told 2.5 months. I believe the Swift Boaters...

 

[bshole]

Looks like some Syrians need some help. Anyone interested?

Thanx for posting that Londo. I have an extended an offer to help.

 

[WelshBloke]

Thanx for posting that Londo. I have an extended an offer to help.

Theres this guy I know in Nigeria that needs to get some money out of the country as well, I'll forward your details to him as well if you like?

 

[PottedMeat]

Theres this guy I know in Nigeria that needs to get some money out of the country as well, I'll forward your details to him as well if you like?

Don't Do it! Bank transfers from nigeria carry ebola!

 

[WelshBloke]

Don't Do it! Bank transfers from nigeria carry ebola!

I'm cool, I updated my antivirus definitions this morning. :hmm:

 

[unokitty]

Looks like some Syrians need some help. Anyone interested?

I'd offer to help. But since my investment in Raytheon, Tomahawk cruise missile maker, is doing so well I don't need the money... War just does wonders for Raytheon's stock.

Uno

 

[bshole]

I'd offer to help. But since my investment in Raytheon, Tomahawk cruise missile maker, is doing so well I don't need the money... War just does wonders for Raytheon's stock.

Uno

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it was the American military-industrial complex that pushed us into this madness. Damn, I wish I would have put some money on them. I wasn't thinking. Grats to you Uno, you are alot smarter than the rest of us.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Theres this guy I know in Nigeria that needs to get some money out of the country as well, I'll forward your details to him as well if you like?

This was in my work email inbox this morning, the first thing I thought was does this guy have a cousin in Nigeria. :biggrin:

 

[squarecut1]

and yes stopping the humanitarian atrocities should be a concern as well.

Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. Entire cities have been reduced to rubble. Have you ever seen the bodies of children lined up? Rows and rows of it. He even went ahead and used chemical weapons on helpless women and children, crossing Obama's so called red line. And what happened? Precisely nothing. No consequences. If you think there is any humanitarian angle to this, you are very naive - like so many of our fellow Americans.

 

[squarecut1]

Robert Fisk (of the Independent newspaper) is a must read who wants to gain any insight into the happenings of middle east. Unlike most of the so called experts, he has

- lived in the region for decades, and still does (lives in Beirut). He doesn't write from an office in D.C.
- been brutally honest about all the players - from the brutal dictators of the region, to the western powers, the Israelis, the militias like Hamas etc.
- always goes to the conflict zones, and reports from there. Continues to put himself at risk for the sake of first hand reporting.

Here is his page on the newspaper site

http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/robert-fisk

 

[unokitty]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it was the American military-industrial complex that pushed us into this madness. Damn, I wish I would have put some money on them. I wasn't thinking. Grats to you Uno, you are alot smarter than the rest of us.

Its not that I'm smarter. Its that I've seen this crap before.

After getting drafted in '69, I spent 15 month and 28 nights walking a dog trained to kill everyone in the world except me around a 3.2 mile jungle perimeter. For that, I was paid $6.75 a day because it was my 'patriotic duty.' In contrast, the defense industry made a killing... And they continued to make a killing no matter what happened to me or my peers...

Forty years after the Tokin Gulf Incident, the NSA declassified documents that showed that LBJ deceived Congress and the American People to get the Vietnam war started. And to make his political supporters in the defense industries billions of dollars...

In a similar way, Bush deceived the American People concerning Sadam's weapons of mass destruction to get the second Iraqi War started. And in a similar way, his political supporters in the defense industry made billions of dollars.

Now, another politician wants us to believe something similar. That Obama has 'intelligence' concerning threats to the nation that will necessitate all 'little' people making sacrifices while his political supports make billions...

War is a racket. Always has been.

Uno

 

[squarecut1]

One of the benefits of studying history is that you see things from a broader perspective, and not get caught up in the momentary rhetoric. Look at the decline of great civilizations, Rome for example, and you see

Military over-reach
Massive internal corruption
Population getting more and more indifferent, more and more involved in the fun and circuses.
And so on.

In other words, not unlike the present day America.

 

[BoberFett]

I still do not understand where the Democrat BS always comes out in this line of thinking.

Many, many people in my family were Democrats and fought in WWII, my Grandfather that was my idol growing up went into North Africa against Rommel, then D-Day, spent 6 months in a foxhole in France, then went in to take Berlin.

He had 5 Bronze Stars I could run off a list of several other relatives that did similar things.

Why Republicans think they are more patriotic is way, way, way beyond me.

He hated Dubya with a passion, and was embarassed at what the US had become onto his deathbed, he even mentioned it the night I went to the house before he died and rushed over.

He went into Hospice that nite and didn't even last till the morning.

Hell, Kerry had a much more solid war record than Dubya, and he got Swift Boated.

Republican Leadership are all about talking shit, brainwashing people, and not accomplishing much other than raping the public in general.

WTF are you going on about? Who said anything about patriotism?

 

[squarecut1]

Now, another politician wants us to believe something similar. That Obama has 'intelligence' concerning threats to the nation that will necessitate all 'little' people making sacrifices while his political supports make billions...

Of all the American military men and women killed in Iraq, there is one thing in common. They do not belong to the privileged, the elite class. Not the sons and daughters of CFOs, CEOs, investment bankers, the politicians and so on. For such little guys, it is the slogans like freedom, patriotism. The profits are for the ones that matter.

 

[squarecut1]

Regarding Texashiker, I was wondering

- Are his "views" representative of Texas? After all, it isn't the most enlightened region of our country, is it.
- Has he become extremely bitter (and thus full of hate) because of being screwed over by his ex, the child support and all?

I think it is a combination of both of the above

 

[squarecut1]

So where is the "liberal" outrage over a war mongering President now? How many Democrats in Congress are criticizing Obama over dragging America deeper into the middle eastern mess? What hypocrites!

And the right which is so distrustful of the "big government", any studies/reports it comes up with. Is perfectly fine with "intelligence" reports, about our govt getting bigger with these actions.

Hypocrisy all around. That is politics in America for you. No principles. Just self interest.

 

[werepossum]

This is another example of a major government getting sucked into Guerrilla warfare with an enemy that holds mobile positions. It won't end well for occasional civilians or the US governent's budget.

It's sad because the US airstrikes will only fuel the propaganda fire to get locals affected by the airstrikes more interested in joining.

What Iraq needs is a hardcore dictator with a strong army and no patience for other groups trying to takeover his realm....willing to use chemical warfare to deter cells of civil unrest.....Wait....we killed him.

It sucks because the area was more stable before, despite the way we looked at it. ISIS is a mix of different kinds of people. It's not just a group of crazy, one dimensional extremists...it's less predictable because of how geographically widespread it is. The subgroups likely have different goals. We can only hope they have internal struggles for power after the american attacks that disrupt them and disband them. I just don't know if airstrikes will be enough.

This is Syria, which HAS a dictator as hardcore as you might wish with "a strong army and no patience for other groups trying to takeover his realm....willing to use chemical warfare to deter cells of civil unrest".

A few points that come to mind:

1) Syria cannot be called a sovereign nation at this time. It is more like an exploding (literally) shithole with 45687456897 sides shooting each other.

2) I made a trip to the golan heights over a week ago when the UN folks pulled out. As I arrived I passed a convoy (coming from the border) of several SUV's, trucks and APC's escorted by 2 IDF SUV's.
Up on mount Bental (where there is an abandonded military outpost and a coffee shop) you can see most of southern Syria, there was nothing to see except smoke but much to hear - explosions going off non-stop in the distance.

3) This is futile, I don't know why anyone thinks airstrikes can kill a terrorist idea. It never worked, what's changed this time?
They hide, wait it out and go back to their business, while getting more and more supporters worldwide.

True, we can't kill the terrorist idea. We can however break the stuff they use to act on that idea, as well as the places where they meet to develop it. And we can presumably kill a lot of the hardcore as well as discourage those drifting with the winds from joining.

In 2012 Biden predicted that this would happen with Syria. Of course that was if Romney won...

lol There is a certain delicious irony here. On the other hand, the Dems have mastered the art of doing that which they accuse the Pubbies of wanting to do.

 

[squarecut1]

True, we can't kill the terrorist idea. We can however break the stuff they use to act on that idea, as well as the places where they meet to develop it. And we can presumably kill a lot of the hardcore as well as discourage those drifting with the winds from joining.

I seem to recall the same things being said when we went to Afghanistan. 13 years later, we are still there for what is the longest military engagement of the country in its history. Nobody is really sure why we are still there, who are we fighting anymore, or why we are fighting.

We are definitely now living in the times of endless war.