Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
What a moron you are. Choosing his words carefully as not to hurt those who are fighting for their freedom is exactly what he is doing. It's refreshing change to have a leader who is bright enough to see the big picture.
Buh Buh Buh Buuuuush!
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
So sticking your head in the sand and hoping the world becomes full of rainbows and unicorns is the solution? This could be one of the more important events in the Middle East in decades, and our President is too scared to come out and take a position on it. Jesus Christ, someone get Hillary on the phone to hold Obama's hand here.
what, exactly, would obamarama taking a position (more than he already has) on the matter do?
It's quite obvious McCain and others on the right are using the protests to gain political advantage. T
Originally posted by: aphex
I find it amazing that the right now gives a shit what Obama says? Wow.
Obama saying anything is a bad idea IMO. Its not our fight and were stuck dealing with whoever wins, so its best to stay out of it for now.
Originally posted by: techs
The real traitors are here in this thread and in Congress.
You sicken me.
It should be obvious to even a mental retard that the US is looked at in Iran by many people the same way Americans look at Osama.
It should also be obvious to even a mental retard that any overt support the US gives the moderates in Iran would have the same effect as Bin Laden supporting a US candidate.
100 percent negative.
Of course, the Republicans and asshats like Grampa McCain are traitors to the moderates and democracy loving segment of Iran.
But we have seen the Republicans and asshats like Grampa McCain call Americans "terrorist lovers" just to score some political points.
There used to be a saying that politics ended at the oceans edge.
Since the Republican Neo-Cons and their propaganda outlet Fox News took control NOTHING is to low or mean or dangerous or anti-american, etc to use for political gain.
It really is a screw America and the world if it helps us mentality.
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: aphex
I find it amazing that the right now gives a shit what Obama says? Wow.
Obama saying anything is a bad idea IMO. Its not our fight and were stuck dealing with whoever wins, so its best to stay out of it for now.
Of course we give a shit what he says. Are you stupid? If Obama was calling for the killing of all Mexicans in the United States- We should just sit back and allow it because who are we to give a shit what Obama says?
I swear to god the left in this forum is getting dumber by the second. Go back to the Apple forum.
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
So sticking your head in the sand and hoping the world becomes full of rainbows and unicorns is the solution? This could be one of the more important events in the Middle East in decades, and our President is too scared to come out and take a position on it. Jesus Christ, someone get Hillary on the phone to hold Obama's hand here.
what, exactly, would obamarama taking a position (more than he already has) on the matter do?
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
When Ron Paul is the voice of reason when it comes to meddling in the internal affairs of other countries especially Iran the booger-brains in Congress need to get a grip.
Gosh, you're a multi-talented hater/fear monger. Now apples are on your list.Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: aphex
I find it amazing that the right now gives a shit what Obama says? Wow.
Obama saying anything is a bad idea IMO. Its not our fight and were stuck dealing with whoever wins, so its best to stay out of it for now.
Of course we give a shit what he says. Are you stupid? If Obama was calling for the killing of all Mexicans in the United States- We should just sit back and allow it because who are we to give a shit what Obama says?
I swear to god the left in this forum is getting dumber by the second. Go back to the Apple forum.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Ok Cletus, explain exactly what we can do to help this come about?Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
This is insanity.. we have the makings of a true democracy in the M.E.
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: aphex
I find it amazing that the right now gives a shit what Obama says? Wow.
Obama saying anything is a bad idea IMO. Its not our fight and were stuck dealing with whoever wins, so its best to stay out of it for now.
Of course we give a shit what he says. Are you stupid? If Obama was calling for the killing of all Mexicans in the United States- We should just sit back and allow it because who are we to give a shit what Obama says?
I swear to god the left in this forum is getting dumber by the second. Go back to the Apple forum.
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Originally posted by: aphex
I find it amazing that the right now gives a shit what Obama says? Wow.
Obama saying anything is a bad idea IMO. Its not our fight and were stuck dealing with whoever wins, so its best to stay out of it for now.
Of course we give a shit what he says. Are you stupid? If Obama was calling for the killing of all Mexicans in the United States- We should just sit back and allow it because who are we to give a shit what Obama says?
I swear to god the left in this forum is getting dumber by the second. Go back to the Apple forum.
Originally posted by: techs
No. They are traitors to America, American ideals, the Iranian people and just plain decent human beings.Originally posted by: Red Dawn
They're not traitors, just political opportunists.Originally posted by: techs
The real traitors are here in this thread and in Congress.
You sicken me.
It should be obvious to even a mental retard that the US is looked at in Iran by many people the same way Americans look at Osama.
It should also be obvious to even a mental retard that any overt support the US gives the moderates in Iran would have the same effect as Bin Laden supporting a US candidate.
100 percent negative.
Of course, the Republicans and asshats like Grampa McCain are traitors to the moderates and democracy loving segment of Iran.
But we have seen the Republicans and asshats like Grampa McCain call Americans "terrorist lovers" just to score some political points.
There used to be a saying that politics ended at the oceans edge.
Since the Republican Neo-Cons and their propaganda outlet Fox News took control NOTHING is to low or mean or dangerous or anti-american, etc to use for political gain.
It really is a screw America and the world if it helps us mentality.
As I speak to you tonight, the fate of a proud and ancient nation hangs in the balance. For a thousand years, Christmas has been celebrated in Poland, a land of deep religious faith, but this Christmas brings little joy to the courageous Polish people. They have been betrayed by their own government.
The men who rule them and their totalitarian allies fear the very freedom that the Polish people cherish. They have answered the stirrings of liberty with brute force, killings, mass arrests, and the setting up of concentration camps. Lech Walesa and other Solidarity leaders are imprisoned, their fate unknown. Factories, mines, universities, and homes have been assaulted.
*****
The target of this depression [repression] is the Solidarity Movement, but in attacking Solidarity its enemies attack an entire people. Ten million of Poland's 36 million citizens are members of Solidarity. Taken together with their families, they account for the overwhelming majority of the Polish nation. By persecuting Solidarity the Polish Government wages war against its own people.
I urge the Polish Government and its allies to consider the consequences of their actions. How can they possibly justify using naked force to crush a people who ask for nothing more than the right to lead their own lives in freedom and dignity? Brute force may intimidate, but it cannot form the basis of an enduring society, and the ailing Polish economy cannot be rebuilt with terror tactics.
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Thats just silly. Obama needs to stop being so timid with Iran. He is AFRAID to come out and support these people. He is showing WEAKNESS. The Iranian people should know we are behind them 100%. Biden and Hillary apparently both feel the same way according to some reports. His lack of action is only emboldening the Mullah's because they believe we won't get involved.
Originally posted by: RacerX
Obama's too caught up in being ... the father he never had ... the smoker he can no longer be ... the doctor(s) he never could become ... the car dealer(s) of his dream
.... trifle him not with your petty foreign affairs ... let him play with his fly
Originally posted by: EXman
You wouldn't know what America stood for if it bit you in the partisan ass. What a gas bag.
What are America Ideals then?
We stand for freedom and liberty. Obama stands and watches. Takes credit for "dialog" then says and I quote "we will bare witness" as Iranian people are killed in the streets and says we don't want to meddle.
Simple do the damn right thing. Iranians want Freedom and Liberty. I thought the Dems were all about activism, Freedoms and young people. This has all of that. Say we support ANYONE who wants that for their country. Meddling my ass it is a CYA attitude like voting "present."
So I guess America still looks pretty bad for backing Solidarity in Poland right...
Here is what our President had to say when Poland pulled this totalitarian crap on December 23, 1981:
As I speak to you tonight, the fate of a proud and ancient nation hangs in the balance. For a thousand years, Christmas has been celebrated in Poland, a land of deep religious faith, but this Christmas brings little joy to the courageous Polish people. They have been betrayed by their own government.
The men who rule them and their totalitarian allies fear the very freedom that the Polish people cherish. They have answered the stirrings of liberty with brute force, killings, mass arrests, and the setting up of concentration camps. Lech Walesa and other Solidarity leaders are imprisoned, their fate unknown. Factories, mines, universities, and homes have been assaulted.
*****
The target of this depression [repression] is the Solidarity Movement, but in attacking Solidarity its enemies attack an entire people. Ten million of Poland's 36 million citizens are members of Solidarity. Taken together with their families, they account for the overwhelming majority of the Polish nation. By persecuting Solidarity the Polish Government wages war against its own people.
I urge the Polish Government and its allies to consider the consequences of their actions. How can they possibly justify using naked force to crush a people who ask for nothing more than the right to lead their own lives in freedom and dignity? Brute force may intimidate, but it cannot form the basis of an enduring society, and the ailing Polish economy cannot be rebuilt with terror tactics.
Wow funny thing is that same man freed the whole of the eastern europe with tax payer dollars, resolve, and just doing and saying the right damn thing. That is a difference between a Statesman and a Politician. To bad George Bush didn't pay attention to history as well. We really need to find a better caliber of potential leaders.
Originally posted by: cubby1223
If you'd ever step out of the blogosphere, go experience the real world, and I know this might be bit scary for you, but you just might realize that most of what you read is crap, so far disconnected from reality :roll:
turn off MSNBC.... turn off "progressive" talk radio...
Of course it doesn't matter who wins the election. If you think that was a fair election I have a bridge to sell you.Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
The Republicans were completely dismissive of the election...
Remember Liz Cheney saying, "It doesn't matter who wins?" Had Mousavi won (as many people think he did), they would have dismissed him "Don't be taken in."
It's the hawkish Right who is threatened by the disappearance of a government easy to demonize and useful as justification for Pentagon dollars. Moreover, since the neocon agenda for the Middle East failed miserably, they certainly don't want any positive change on Obama's watch.
We have limited leverage over developments in other countries. GHWB pursued essentially the same "hands-off" policy toward China and the Eastern bloc in 1989 in which developments diverged dramatically. When East Germans appeared at the gates of out Embassy in Berlin after a exodus had started through Czechoslavakia, staff was instructed not to assist them. Don't get involved.
Everyone understands that the US siding with the uprising will galvanize the reactionary forces in Iranian politics. The Right is playing a dangerous game. In 1956 Eisenhower seemed to imply that the U.S. would help Hungarians rising up against the Soviet Union. The U.S. never intended to do anything but sit on the sidelines. Many Hungarians lost their lives unneceassrily.
So to Iraqi Shiites. The elder George Bush seemed to encourage an Iragi uprising against Hussein. Again no help was forthcoming and Hussein used the helicopters the U.S. allowed him to keep after the Gulf War to slaughter the Shiites. Given our history of encouraging uprisings that we then leave twisting in the wind (Hungary in '56 and Iraq in '91)Obama's restraint in dealing with the events in Iran are a refreshing change.
Let the consistently wrong armchair strategists fume, let McCain and the idiots in Congress say whatever they want; in the end we can't do anything more than what we're doing anyway. The Ayatollahs - well, some of them anyway - aren't the only ones looking stupid by their reaction to events.
The U.S. will not be sending troops to Iran so President Obama has to ignore all the fools on the Right who want him to take bold stands. It doesn't matter what Obama says. No matter what he'd have done, they'd used it against him. The GOP has become the party of no ideas, no contributions, just a constant stream of baseless criticisms.
Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Thats just silly. Obama needs to stop being so timid with Iran. He is AFRAID to come out and support these people. He is showing WEAKNESS. The Iranian people should know we are behind them 100%. Biden and Hillary apparently both feel the same way according to some reports. His lack of action is only emboldening the Mullah's because they believe we won't get involved.
So in your not-so-expert opinion, what exactly should we be doing?
Originally posted by: EXman
You wouldn't know what America stood for if it bit you in the partisan ass. What a gas bag.
What are America Ideals then?
We stand for freedom and liberty. Obama stands and watches. Takes credit for "dialog" then says and I quote "we will bare witness" as Iranian people are killed in the streets and says we don't want to meddle.
Simple do the damn right thing. Iranians want Freedom and Liberty. I thought the Dems were all about activism, Freedoms and young people. This has all of that. Say we support ANYONE who wants that for their country. Meddling my ass it is a CYA attitude like voting "present."
So I guess America still looks pretty bad for backing Solidarity in Poland right...
Here is what our President had to say when Poland pulled this totalitarian crap on December 23, 1981:
Wow funny thing is that same man freed the whole of the eastern europe with tax payer dollars, resolve, and just doing and saying the right damn thing. That is a difference between a Statesman and a Politician. To bad George Bush didn't pay attention to history as well. We really need to find a better caliber of potential leaders.
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: EXman
You wouldn't know what America stood for if it bit you in the partisan ass. What a gas bag.
What are America Ideals then?
We stand for freedom and liberty. Obama stands and watches. Takes credit for "dialog" then says and I quote "we will bare witness" as Iranian people are killed in the streets and says we don't want to meddle.
Simple do the damn right thing. Iranians want Freedom and Liberty. I thought the Dems were all about activism, Freedoms and young people. This has all of that. Say we support ANYONE who wants that for their country. Meddling my ass it is a CYA attitude like voting "present."
Activism does not mean international intervention, nor being the world's policeman. As I said above, making some gasbag statements and posturing politically would be the easy thing to do for Obama.
So I guess America still looks pretty bad for backing Solidarity in Poland right...
Here is what our President had to say when Poland pulled this totalitarian crap on December 23, 1981:
Wow funny thing is that same man freed the whole of the eastern europe with tax payer dollars, resolve, and just doing and saying the right damn thing. That is a difference between a Statesman and a Politician. To bad George Bush didn't pay attention to history as well. We really need to find a better caliber of potential leaders.
You are comparing apples to orangutans. There is absolutely nothing in common with the two situations. Solidarity was a grassroots movement, but not conducted in a country with immense anti-american sentiment nor facing an opposition party empowered by it. Reagan had nothing to lose by coming out on the side of Solidarity and didn't make the enemies of the movement any stronger by doing so. In Iran's case, it absolutely would. Try asking an Iranian the question. Even those who support Mousavi don't want the US involved as it would undermine them.
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: EXman
You wouldn't know what America stood for if it bit you in the partisan ass. What a gas bag.
What are America Ideals then?
We stand for freedom and liberty. Obama stands and watches. Takes credit for "dialog" then says and I quote "we will bare witness" as Iranian people are killed in the streets and says we don't want to meddle.
Simple do the damn right thing. Iranians want Freedom and Liberty. I thought the Dems were all about activism, Freedoms and young people. This has all of that. Say we support ANYONE who wants that for their country. Meddling my ass it is a CYA attitude like voting "present."
Activism does not mean international intervention, nor being the world's policeman. As I said above, making some gasbag statements and posturing politically would be the easy thing to do for Obama.
So I guess America still looks pretty bad for backing Solidarity in Poland right...
Here is what our President had to say when Poland pulled this totalitarian crap on December 23, 1981:
Wow funny thing is that same man freed the whole of the eastern europe with tax payer dollars, resolve, and just doing and saying the right damn thing. That is a difference between a Statesman and a Politician. To bad George Bush didn't pay attention to history as well. We really need to find a better caliber of potential leaders.
You are comparing apples to orangutans. There is absolutely nothing in common with the two situations. Solidarity was a grassroots movement, but not conducted in a country with immense anti-american sentiment nor facing an opposition party empowered by it. Reagan had nothing to lose by coming out on the side of Solidarity and didn't make the enemies of the movement any stronger by doing so. In Iran's case, it absolutely would. Try asking an Iranian the question. Even those who support Mousavi don't want the US involved as it would undermine them.
I have asked Iranians the question. And they said that this is why they moved here to escape what is happenening today.
Freedom isn't a grassroots movement it is part of being human. You saying that the Iranian people don't want freedom as much as the Pols did in the 80's doesn't pass the smell test.
Freedom and liberty do not have boundaries drawn on a map. Regardless of what your opinion is. You are pushing a bad point. We should not say "We support Mousavi" we need to say we support the Iranian people who covet the freedoms and liberty squelched by totalitarian religious ideologs.
It's called doing the right thing. Do you not agree Freedom is an inate human need or at least an inate want?