Scary Diabetic Moment Today

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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
I was diagnosed at 35.
Diabetes in your parents at a similar, or younger, age? Type 2 diabetes is overwhelmingly common, but a bit less so in normal weight folks. A subset of diabetes called MODY is a lesser known entity, but is less related to obesity and responds extremely well to a combination of metformin and a sulfonylurea (one of the only niche years for the class IMHO). It's an inherited disorder, one of your parents would need to have it as well. Just an academic thought.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
its just my part of my definition of skinny, it seems you have a different definition. i am 6'3 235 pounds and have visible abs but am not even close to skinny, so you are 130 and no abs but are skinny? wide variety of foods! butter on potatoes? nope not happy. what kinda ratio carbs fat protein. how many calories a day do you consume?


Whole grains are good and avoiding packages but really sounds like you are not even trying that hard, cough cough the reason for pills (the easy way).


Ahh, the internet... Where people are 6'3", carry a ton of muscle, have 6-pack abs, perfect health and have looks like Tom Cruise.

But back to a serious reply to you - It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about and are an obvious try-hard.

Note: Not all Type II diabetics are to blame for their condition. Many are, but not all.

Note 2: Avoiding packaged food is the fastest way and easiest way to better health and you would have a leg up on 90% of people in America.

Note 3: Potatoes and butter (in moderation) are just fine. What do you think people ate 100 years ago? Hint: Tons of fatty meat, tons of potatoes and tons of butter. What was missing from their diet? Pre-packaged sugar (fructose, primarily) and sodium infused foods, which are dense and are designed to not trigger satiety.
 
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ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
I should get a refund from those classes I took then. Never even heard of a glucose tablet.

That is very surprising to me. I am not even a diabetic, but I do research as if I am one, as this is one disease I don't want to get if I can help it. I am sure the class you took is just fine and as I mentioned in my previous post, a can of coke would work, if you went moderately low. But if it is an emergency, you need pure glucose (dextrose).

Glucose is the "sugar" in blood sugar and may also be referred to as dextrose on labels. It comes in tablets, such as Dex4 or BD Glucose tablets, and in certain candies like Sweet Tarts. Glucose breaks down quickly and reaches the blood as 100 percent glucose, which makes it the best choice for raising the blood sugar quickly. Another good product for raising your glucose is Glucolift Glucose Tablets.

Table sugar consists of one glucose molecule and one fructose molecule, so when it breaks down in the stomach, only half is immediately available as glucose. Fruit juices, like orange juice, contain mostly fructose and are a relatively poor choice for quick treatment of serious hypoglycemia because they take so long to raise the blood sugar. For mild lows, these differences may not be vital, but if a low is serious, you want to choose the fastest carb available to get you back on your feet quickly. Choose high glycemic food for a quick rise of the blood sugar.

https://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes-control/low-blood-sugars/treatment


The proof is in the chart!
I’ve been wearing a CGM for the past several months, and I love the thing! In preparing to write this week’s entry, I decided to try a little experiment (and no, I probably shouldn’t have done this, and no, you shouldn’t do it at home!). Having the CGM means I can tell it to alert me when I’m falling below a certain blood sugar level. So I set that alert relatively high, at 75, and took a few extra units of insulin with a few meals to gently push me a little low afterward. When I hit 75 and my phone beeped (the meter sends information to the phone through Bluetooth), I treated the falling number. The first time, I treated it with a cookie, and the next time, with glucose tablets. The results were pretty amazing to see!

When I treated with the cookie, my blood sugar continued to dip for about 10 minutes, then start arching upwards in a gentle rise that tapered off about 30 minutes after consumption. When I treated with glucose tablets, I saw a sharp rise within 5 minutes of consumption, which peaked within 10–12 minutes and then tapered off. Both foods eventually got me to about the same number, but the glucose tablets were about three times as fast! Now, at 75, that wasn’t a big deal. But if I had been 65, or 55, or 45? That lag time could have spelled real trouble!

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/glucose-tablets-really-best-hypoglycemia/
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
Diabetes in your parents at a similar, or younger, age? Type 2 diabetes is overwhelmingly common, but a bit less so in normal weight folks. A subset of diabetes called MODY is a lesser known entity, but is less related to obesity and responds extremely well to a combination of metformin and a sulfonylurea (one of the only niche years for the class IMHO). It's an inherited disorder, one of your parents would need to have it as well. Just an academic thought.
Well my mother was diabetic. And she has always been thin.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,986
8,699
136
Note 3: Potatoes and butter (in moderation) are just fine. What do you think people ate 100 years ago? Hint: Tons of fatty meat, tons of potatoes and tons of butter. What was missing from their diet? Pre-packaged sugar (fructose, primarily) and sodium infused foods, which are dense and are designed to not trigger satiety.
I agree with the points in your post plus the general thrust of it however people 100 years ago burned a hell of a lot more calories just getting through the day than we do.
 
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paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
That is very surprising to me. I am not even a diabetic, but I do research as if I am one, as this is one disease I don't want to get if I can help it. I am sure the class you took is just fine and as I mentioned in my previous post, a can of coke would work, if you went moderately low. But if it is an emergency, you need pure glucose (dextrose).

It’s actually disturbing to me as it was a medical class that happened 2x a week for a few weeks and wasn’t cheap.

Though even after they told me I had it I still never came across that tablet. But I was more concerned with researching how to reverse it as you mention it’s not something you want to get.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,938
12,440
136
this update of sorts is about an acquaintance of mine that received some very bad news about his type 2 diabetes.

Jeff just found out he failed his kidney function tests. He has kidney disease and now has to face some scary things in his future. He is not taking the news well and it appears he doesn't want to take his doctor's diet advice either. His diabetes is not under proper control due to his intellectual impairment. He is not autistic or anything just a little slow. He forgets what he is told and therefore doesn't take care of his diabetes. He is insulin dependent and doesn't follow the diet he is required to use. He has had at least 3 blackouts (passed out due to low glucose levels) in the last 2 years. His doctor just told him to eliminate breads and most carbs from his diet. What does he do? Buys breads and eats sandwiches, pasta, etc.

I am not sure if he really grasps the seriousness of this issue. I guess when he is on dialysis it might sink in.

 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
this update of sorts is about an acquaintance of mine that received some very bad news about his type 2 diabetes.

Jeff just found out he failed his kidney function tests. He has kidney disease and now has to face some scary things in his future. He is not taking the news well and it appears he doesn't want to take his doctor's diet advice either. His diabetes is not under proper control due to his intellectual impairment. He is not autistic or anything just a little slow. He forgets what he is told and therefore doesn't take care of his diabetes. He is insulin dependent and doesn't follow the diet he is required to use. He has had at least 3 blackouts (passed out due to low glucose levels) in the last 2 years. His doctor just told him to eliminate breads and most carbs from his diet. What does he do? Buys breads and eats sandwiches, pasta, etc.

I am not sure if he really grasps the seriousness of this issue. I guess when he is on dialysis it might sink in.

Some folks have to be pushed to the wall and through it before they change very unhealthy habits.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
Smarties or Glucose tablets would be faster at raising blood glucose levels than a coke. Though, practically speaking, both would work just fine.
Thats not accurate (not being rude, 'Ive had type 1 diabetes for...a long time). Coke is packed with simple carbs and easily absorbed. Perfect for hypoglycemia and far faster than glucose tablets.
 

killster1

Banned
Mar 15, 2007
6,208
475
126
Thats not accurate (not being rude, 'Ive had type 1 diabetes for...a long time). Coke is packed with simple carbs and easily absorbed. Perfect for hypoglycemia and far faster than glucose tablets.

i have no idea how fast a coke is compared to instaglucose gel that we give people but i can tell you how many times i have had a coke on me in the past 10 years? zero only drink Pepsi and not often do i have a can in my pocket! So id have to say the instaglucose tabs or gel in your pocket would be just as quick than getting to a soda in any foreseeable circumstance. (trying really hard to think of how coke could be just as fast or more.. perhaps if you had a soda dispenser within arms reach
plus you have to measure out 7.4oz of coke to equal the one tab 24g sugar in the instaglucose

How fast do you drink soda, sounds painful.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
i have no idea how fast a coke is compared to instaglucose gel that we give people but i can tell you how many times i have had a coke on me in the past 10 years? zero only drink Pepsi and not often do i have a can in my pocket! So id have to say the instaglucose tabs or gel in your pocket would be just as quick than getting to a soda in any foreseeable circumstance. (trying really hard to think of how coke could be just as fast or more.. perhaps if you had a soda dispenser within arms reach
plus you have to measure out 7.4oz of coke to equal the one tab 24g sugar in the instaglucose

How fast do you drink soda, sounds painful.
Haha true, downing a coke isnt easy but if I have access to a cup/glass ill remove the carbonation. They used to use jugs of coke syrup at summer camp for diabetics, wonder if they still do.

Id put "speed of absorption" in the following order when deciding (im ignoring Glucagon shots, those things are insanely fast and Ive only used them twice in oper 30 years). Ive done extensive testing (no pun intended) to determine what works fastest.

1. Liquid glucose aka Glucose shots and the like
2. Any fruit juice but preferably Grape because it has a high content of regular glucose.
3. Glucose gels
4. Glucose pills
5. Any hard candy
 
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ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Thats not accurate (not being rude, 'Ive had type 1 diabetes for...a long time). Coke is packed with simple carbs and easily absorbed. Perfect for hypoglycemia and far faster than glucose tablets.

I certainly won't take your response as being rude and I hope you consider that same attitude towards what I write below.

The idea of simple versus complex carbs is overly simplistic. If you are familar with the Glycemic Index, you might find it interesting that Maltodextrin breaks down and enters the blood stream even faster than glucose. Guess what? Maltodextrin is technically a complex carb! So, there goes that theory, not to mention white baked potatoes entering the bloodstream faster than table sugar...

A can of coke packs around 44 grams of sugar, usually in the form of HFCS. The most common mixture of HFCS is 55/45 - That is, 55% of it is Fructose and 45% of it is Glucose. This is a very similar ratio to table Sugar (Sucrose), which is 50/50. So if your coke uses real sugar, or HFCS, it doesn't really change much, they, practically speaking, are Sucrose based.

Go look at your glycemic index for sugars. Take note of where Dextrose is compared to Sucrose or HFCS-55 at entering the blood stream. This is easily understood because the Fructose component is processed by the liver, which is a much lengthier process to entering the bloodstream. The ONLY reason your Coke works, is because it has 44 grams, of which roughly ~20 of those grams can enter the bloodstream quickly. The other ~20 slowly make their way there...

Maltodextrin Sugar 110
Maltose Sugar 105
Dextrose Sugar 100
Glucose Sugar 100
Trehalose Sugar 70
HFCS-42 Modified Sugar 68
Sucrose Sugar 65
Caramel Modified Sugar 60
Golden Syrup Modified Sugar 60
Inverted Sugar Modified Sugar 60
Refiners Syrup Modified Sugar 60
HFCS-55 Modified Sugar 58
Blackstrap Molasses Sugar Extract 55
Maple Syrup Natural Sugar 54
Honey Natural Sugar 50
Sorghum Syrup Natural Sugar 50
Lactose Sugar 45
Fructose Sugar 25

Being a diabetic, as I have found, doesn't make you very knowledgeable in regards to how it works. I don't have to have the disease to know all about it. Your coke will work, I never said it wouldn't, but glucose tablets are better, period. Tons of articles in the web say the same thing.

Great little write-up, BTW for GI and Sugars...
http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-index-for-sweeteners.html

Armed with this knowledge, I'd be curious if you can tell me why a can of coke is faster than any pure glucose based tablet/candy...


Edit ** Links to information regarding this very topic...

Table sugar consists of one glucose molecule and one fructose molecule, so when it breaks down in the stomach, only half is immediately available as glucose. Fruit juices, like orange juice, contain mostly fructose and are a relatively poor choice for quick treatment of serious hypoglycemia because they take so long to raise the blood sugar. For mild lows, these differences may not be vital, but if a low is serious, you want to choose the fastest carb available to get you back on your feet quickly. Choose high glycemic food for a quick rise of the blood sugar. Source - https://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes-control/low-blood-sugars/treatment


 
Last edited:

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Id put "speed of absorption" in the following order when deciding (im ignoring Glucagon shots, those things are insanely fast and Ive only used them twice in oper 30 years). Ive done extensive testing (no pun intended) to determine what works fastest.

1. Liquid glucose aka Glucose shots and the like
2. Any fruit juice but preferably Grape because it has a high content of regular glucose.
3. Glucose gels
4. Glucose pills
5. Any hard candy

Your #2 is wrong - not just any juice, as they vary heavily in F:G ratio. But, even so, I don't see your Coke listed in here... Which, I thought you claimed was the reason I was wrong... (I quoted it below as a reminder)

Your #5 is wrong because it is way to broad. Very rarely is ANY hard Candy a good choice. Most Hard Candy is not that great as it is largely made of table sugar and not to mention, can often not be chewed quickly. But Smarties, which are pure Dextrose can be chewed very quickly. Runts can, too. Though runts are a bit harder on the teeth. But an Atomic Fireball? No way, you will break your teeth trying to chew into that, and slowly sucking down a fireball isn't going to get you glucose quick at all.

Coke is packed with simple carbs and easily absorbed. Perfect for hypoglycemia and far faster than glucose tablets.

Not only is not faster (at all) but your claim of FAR faster is beyond ridiculous.

To be pedantic, I think the list would actually go like this:

1) IV Based Glucose - This is also the most "invasive", however. So this would be debatable as the best source of action.
2) Glucose Gel - Glucose can be absorbed into the bloodstream via the mouth and because a glucose gel is more potent than glucose based drinks, the client wouldn't need to have good swallowing reflexes.
3) Glucose Tablets/Tablet Like Dextrose based Candy.- If the client cannot chew, then i'd concede juice, any available, though preferably one with the highest content of glucose per oz would be superior.

The issue here, I'll admit, is there there are many variables to this. In a properly functioning human (one that has control of those their faculties), the Glucose Gel and Glucose Tablets/Dextrose Chewable Candy are effectively the same. Juice would be behind those two options assuming the same number of sugar grams. But this changes depending on the client and what control they have... I mean, if an old man become hypoglycemic and lost his dentures, sure... I mean, glucose tablets would not be better than juice - So there will always be exceptions and, for the sake of thoroughness, we are talking about emergency situations, or near emergency situations. If you are only slightly hypoglycemic, then pretty anything will work. Better to be proactive than reactive on these types of things.
 
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Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,938
12,440
136
so far my meds and diet are doing a decent job of controlling my glucose. My last A1C test showed a 1 point lowering. That is not bad at all.

The holidays are hard on me and I know I am not alone on this. So I am hoping for another drop when I go for my next A1C test.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Had my first direct experience with someone suffering from severe hypoglycemia. His doctor had just put him on Metformin. He went so low that he could barely stand and his speech became slurred and became disoriented and saying odd and incorrect things. When he started to feel "off" just a few minutes after taking the pills, he drank two cans of mountain dew in about 10 minutes or so and he kept getting worse. Me and a co-worker convinced him to contact his doctor or health clinic, but (insert this is why American Health Insurance sucks) but we didn't know who his health provider was, or if his insurance covered the clinic down the street as in-network. We were reluctant to call the ambulance because of the huge financial burden that would place on him. Even he was cognitive enough to know that he didn't want to face that charge either. Eventually after about 30 minutes (about 45 total after it started) he started to recover and was back to normal after about 2 hours.

This had me thinking, however - Let's assume he did nothing about his feeling dizzy, then passed out as his desk and slipped into a coma? At what point does a "drug" (I'd argue an unnecessary one in most cases) do more harm than good? I find it utterly absurd for doctors to prescribe medications that can be dangerous or even life altering while taking them all to improve a few numbers, which can be improved better by lifestyle choices. There may be some people who need this drug, but according to my research, people who are prescribed that shit, don't keep taking it or they take it haphazardly because of the impact it has on their quality of life. They value a higher quality, but shorter life span than some shitting quality life and getting another 5 years.

I guess more than anything, I hate big pharma and hate America's shitty healthcare. How many people die because "I don't want to call an ambulance, it is too expensive" or how many suffer permanent damage because they had to try and find a clinic that was "in-network".... That shit has to change.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
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If they are new to managing type 2 . . there is a "learning curve", but unclear if they tested prior and were trying to lower a 200+ glucose spike?
Yes it took me awhile to adjust to Metformin and changing my lifestyle choices. My was really high when I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,938
12,440
136
Had my first direct experience with someone suffering from severe hypoglycemia. His doctor had just put him on Metformin. He went so low that he could barely stand and his speech became slurred and became disoriented and saying odd and incorrect things. When he started to feel "off" just a few minutes after taking the pills, he drank two cans of mountain dew in about 10 minutes or so and he kept getting worse. Me and a co-worker convinced him to contact his doctor or health clinic, but (insert this is why American Health Insurance sucks) but we didn't know who his health provider was, or if his insurance covered the clinic down the street as in-network. We were reluctant to call the ambulance because of the huge financial burden that would place on him. Even he was cognitive enough to know that he didn't want to face that charge either. Eventually after about 30 minutes (about 45 total after it started) he started to recover and was back to normal after about 2 hours.

This had me thinking, however - Let's assume he did nothing about his feeling dizzy, then passed out as his desk and slipped into a coma? At what point does a "drug" (I'd argue an unnecessary one in most cases) do more harm than good? I find it utterly absurd for doctors to prescribe medications that can be dangerous or even life altering while taking them all to improve a few numbers, which can be improved better by lifestyle choices. There may be some people who need this drug, but according to my research, people who are prescribed that shit, don't keep taking it or they take it haphazardly because of the impact it has on their quality of life. They value a higher quality, but shorter life span than some shitting quality life and getting another 5 years.

I guess more than anything, I hate big pharma and hate America's shitty healthcare. How many people die because "I don't want to call an ambulance, it is too expensive" or how many suffer permanent damage because they had to try and find a clinic that was "in-network".... That shit has to change.
could be he was so used to having high glucose levels that when the metformin dropped his levels to "normal", he found it debilitating.

Metformin is a safe drug as it can't lower glucose below 5.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
30,938
12,440
136
If they are new to managing type 2 . . there is a "learning curve", but unclear if they tested prior and were trying to lower a 200+ glucose spike?
metformin can be difficult for first timers. Side effects like diarrhea can be upsetting to them.
 
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