School district in MI votes tomorrow night whether or not to allow ID

[dmcowen674]

What was the result of the vote???

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
again, how is the idea that creation was by intelligent design something disprove by science?

It's not that it's "disproved" scientifically, it's that ID is not a scientific theory.

It's as much a scientific theory as attributing biogenesis to random happenstance. We have no evidence either way, and even if we where there to see it happen we couldn?t test it. It?s completely a statement of faith either faith in atheistic causes or theistic causes, and neither should be taught as the ?truth? in school.

Abiogenesis (I assume this is what you meant) is a scientific theory because it utilizes known facts about the natural world and the elements of life in order to postulate a reasonably practical scenario, whereas ID is just a... wild guess.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
again, how is the idea that creation was by intelligent design something disprove by science?

It's not that it's "disproved" scientifically, it's that ID is not a scientific theory.

It's as much a scientific theory as attributing biogenesis to random happenstance.

Nice attempt to shift the ground from evolution to abiogenesis.

We have an extremely well supported theory of evolution.

We don't have such a theory for abiogenesis, and I'm not aware of anyone claiming that we do. There's some interesting research, but it's not sufficient to generate a scientific consensus yet.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

Do you have something you can copy/paste?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

D'oh! Rip is a liar then?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

D'oh! Rip is a liar then?

Wow, and very blatent at that.

Thanks for the "real" update Gigantopithecus

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Confirmed here.

Warning: link goes to a clearly biased webpage.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

D'oh! Rip is a liar then?

Surprise surprise ... what a good Christian

 

[r0tt3n1]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

The full quote from the link Giganto linked to:
"They did accept the committee's recommendation that the board approve ID as a potentially suitable subject for a high school level elective course in social studies, humanities, political science or philosophy,...in fall of 2006 at earliest"
Why the twisting of words? I dunno. But the debate is still `alive` as the ID curriculum has to be approved as a possible elective course in the future.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

ID at its core is really the basic tenets of any theistic religion: that some higher power(s) is responsible for life, the universe and everything (hehe). This is certainly the realm of philosophy, where like any other philosophical position it can be examined and its merits considered. That is fine. Philosophy and science use two different sets of rules for evaluating an argument - you can evaluate the idea that a higher power created everything philosophically, but you can not evaluate it scientifically, because it is simply not science. It is always good to think, but it is never good to be intellectually dishonest with your ideas, which is what proponents of ID are. Rip's behavior throughout this entire thread is a resounding example of this.

 

[Moonbeam]

M: "A flame is something we take personally because we feel bad about ourselves."

LMK: "no, a flame is an insult directed at an individual, i in no way felt personally attacked by your post Moonie, though i did see quite clearly you where trying your hardest to insult rip."

M: You are quite mistaken. I know you and Rip to the extent that I know myself. A good mirror offers an accurate reflection of what is. What YOU see (the interpretation you put) in that mirror is the unconscious feelings the image triggers. Unconscious means you do this without awareness. It was of this fact that I became aware at the price of everything I held dear. The price of what I know was at the cost of everything I thought I did. I paid with everything I held dear.

So it wasn't Rip I was referring to but my old self. It is your reaction to that, your projection, that tells me my old self is you.

Further, a person of faith should not build his faith on lies. ID is an attempt by fundamentalist Christians to preserve a literal interpretation to a Book written before the modern scientific era out of fear that if a single word is shown to be false the whole house of cards will fall. It is built on the use of the mind to rationalize a preconceived notion at the expense of rational evidence. To use the mind for cunning and rationalization is a sin. It is an attempt to serve a false religion by blinding other people to truth and it is that attempt to commit fraud on children, to attempt to imprison their minds, to which I object. Fanaticism is a prison is a prison of hate and fear. Faith is born when the ego dies in Love. You cannot prove there is a God but you can try to manifest him or perhaps better, let Him try to manifest through you as long as you are still an ego. Because try as you will, the ego can never annihilate itself. That happens by grace. So you cannot fight for God, you can only surrender to His Love.

Love doesn't care where the universe came from. The beginning and the end all disappear in Being.

Oh my Beloved, wherever I look it appears to be Thou.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

Good, exactly where it belongs. A class on ID belongs grouped with "World Religions" and "Crazy stuff people believe to justify their behavior."

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: r0tt3n1

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

The full quote from the link Giganto linked to:
"They did accept the committee's recommendation that the board approve ID as a potentially suitable subject for a high school level elective course in social studies, humanities, political science or philosophy,...in fall of 2006 at earliest"
Why the twisting of words? I dunno. But the debate is still `alive` as the ID curriculum has to be approved as a possible elective course in the future.

You left out an important part:

They did accept the committee's recommendation that the board approve ID as a potentially suitable subject for a high school level elective course in social studies, humanities, political science or philosophy, but that would have to go through the normal process of being approved separately by the administration and could not begin until at least fall of 2006.

It sounds like ID would have to go through this approval process all over again. Which means that ID has basically made no progress whatsoever.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Confirmed here.

Warning: link goes to a clearly biased webpage.

Michigan Citizens for Science

Protecting Science Education for our Children

==============================


I am so saddened to see things such as this having to be done in my lifetime here in the United States of America.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

Seems like some people heard what they wanted to hear when it came to this decision. :roll:

Any teaching of ID will have to go through the administrative approval process all over again. The ID-proponents are effectively back to square one on this issue.

 

[piasabird]

 

[piasabird]

Intelligent design isnt any less provable than evolution.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Intelligent design isnt any less provable than evolution.

the fact that evolution happens is fact so it's quite provable. if you want to prove that evolution and/or some "intelligent design scenario" is the major factor that has caused the nice diversity of life we see well that is another issue. this is a lot like watching a rock fall to the ground and then questioning whether it was God or gravity that caused it to move like that. sure - it might not be gravity but it's the best model we've got for now. assuming it's God ends the investigation and no knowledge is gained.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

D'oh! Rip is a liar then?

Surprise surprise ... what a good Christian

I got the information in an e-mail from the president of the school board. Her name is Deb Ryan.

Feel free to verify it.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

Seems like some people heard what they wanted to hear when it came to this decision. :roll:

Any teaching of ID will have to go through the administrative approval process all over again. The ID-proponents are effectively back to square one on this issue.

The information I posted came directly from the school board president, Deb Miller.

Feel free to contact her to verify the information.

 

[dannybin1742]

Wrong.

Have you read Dembski's book

have you ever opened a newer biology book?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Not sure where Rip is getting his information, but one of the Board members was so kind as to email me back their decision:

The school board voted unanimously that ID can not be taught in science classrooms in the district, nor can an ID text be used as a supplement to the standard curriculum.

:thumbsup:

D'oh! Rip is a liar then?

Surprise surprise ... what a good Christian

I got the information in an e-mail from the president of the school board. Her name is Deb Ryan.

Feel free to verify it.

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What was the result of the vote???

ID will be offered in a philosophy, social studies, etc class at the High School as an elective.

Seems like some people heard what they wanted to hear when it came to this decision. :roll:

Any teaching of ID will have to go through the administrative approval process all over again. The ID-proponents are effectively back to square one on this issue.

The information I posted came directly from the school board president, Deb Miller.

Feel free to contact her to verify the information.

Ryan or miller or monkey assed liar?

 

[dannybin1742]

Contrary to your letter, Dembski's arguments are based on mathematics and science and do not assume the actions of a supernatural power, nor do they make any claims regarding a personal God, faith or morality.

if only simply not beleiveing in the laws of thermodynamics killed people we wouldn't have to deal with people like the above poster, what math supports your claim? none i can think of, and i've had calculus through dif eq, and i've take a year of classical thermodynamics and a year of quantum mechanism, your posts are full of baseless tripe

don't even attempt ot use thermodynamics to justify any of your claims, your body works against thermodynamics on a daily basis, look at any reaction in your body that has a huge negative change in free energy, even though the reverse reaction is highly unfavorable, it can still happen, go pick up a biochem book and look up micro reversibility, also look into what equilibrium is