That's a fact. True, that's not the only type of complete idiot, I'll give you that. Also true what you say about the teacher, he sounds like an a-hole just waiting for some intolerant little shit to challenge him.
So you belief that people who speak in absolutes when expressing opinions are not idiots?
The fact that schools teach evolution over creationism is a defacto statement that religion, including Christianity is wrong. Do we punish the state or the school boards?
The First Amendment reflects a profound national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open. That is because speech concerning public affairs is more than self-expression; it is the essence of self-government. Accordingly, speech on public issues occupies the highest rung of the hierarchy of First Amendment values, and is entitled to special protection.
the political and moral conduct of the UnitedStates and its citizens, the fate of our Nation, homosexuality in the military, and scandals involving the Catholic clergyare matters of public import.
Given that [redacted]'s speech was at a public place on a matter of public concern, that speech is entitled to special protection under the First Amendment. Such speech cannot be restricted simply because it is upsetting or arouses contempt. If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable. Indeed, the point of all speech protection . . . is to shield just those choices of content that in someones eyes are misguided, or even hurtful.
in public debate [we] must tolerate insulting, and even outrageous, speech in order to provide adequate breathing space to the freedoms protected by the First Amendment.
Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, andas it did hereinflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a Nation we have chosen a different courseto protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate.
I don't recall anything in the Bible that mentions anything about evolution. Can you point me to the verse? Nothing about dinosaurs either. If you have that answer that'd be great.
You will also notice in that article that the teacher has a poster of two men kissing. Is that freedom of speech? I would say yes.
If you and other gay activist have problem, take it up with Catholic church and other religious entity and make it illegal to teach their followers anti-gay message.
This kid is just telling his friend what he was taught. Seems like you people are too chicken $hit to take up the big boys and only picking on the little guys.
Well, looks like all of you who are advocating suppression of free speech are going to be further upset - the school lifted his suspension. Nice point made by a legal expert:
Kids have First Amendment rights, unless its something causing a material and substantial disruption. If somebodys offended, thats not enough, Sasser said
You will also notice in that article that the teacher has a poster of two men kissing. Is that freedom of speech? I would say yes.
This was obviously a case of a teacher who was pissed off because a student did not agree with his views. Happens a lot, happens way too often.
Who cares if I have a different opinion about something. I've heard stories about people getting beat up in bars because they were gay.... because there was a difference of opinion. Should I go beat someone up because his favorite color is orange and mine is teal? No.
If a girl in class says "I hate boys!", Is that any more violent or threatening than what the boy in the OP said? He expressed an opinion? Did she also express an opinion? Sitting in the lunchroom, i tell my friend: "my beef sandwich is delicious". A vegetarian overhears. AOMG i might have offended them.
NOT BEING ABLE TO EXPRESS his opinions creates a hostile environment for him. If he had said "i support homosexuality" there likely wouldn't have been any repercusions because we're told WE MUST BE TOLERANT of homosexuals.
Incidentally my ninth grade Spanish teacher was gay and never brought in into the classroom, except to tell an amusing story about being in England and having a man ask him to borrow a i love you (cigarette.) Sexual orientation in general should not be brought up in non-related classes.
Weather you agree with the kids opinion or not, schools shouldn't be in the business of suspending children based on their personal beliefs.
I would think BOTH sides would agree on this.
That's a good point, and if it were just a poster that happens to have two men kissing (which statistically would be quite unlikely but possible), then I'd agree completely. You don't agree they should do that, fine, it's a free country and they probably don't care what you think anyway. But assuming that this teacher is continuously bringing up homosexuality in his German class, he's wrong. His job is to teach German, not to promote acceptance (or nonacceptance) of homosexuality. If he used the poster to illicit an anti-gay response from his class to make the point that in Germany homosexuality isn't considered aberrant behavior and therefore it should be equally tolerated in America, he's probably doing a good thing, making kids think rather than just accept what they have been taught while using the context of the culture whose language they are studying. There's not enough of that in school, and if he can teach children to not reflexively assume someone is bad just because others do by showing him others who don't, that's also a good thing. But if he really is continually bringing up the subject as alleged, he's using his classroom not to do the job for which he is nominally being paid, but rather as a platform for his own personal activism.Yeah, that sounds nice in theory, but the tricky part is that any reference to a homosexual situation is seen as "bringing up sexual orientation" but not so a reference to a heterosexual situation. For example, the comment in the article about a picture on a wall showing 2 men kissing. That is "bringing up homosexuality" right? But if it is a picture of a man and a woman kissing, it isn't "bringing up heterosexuality." It's just a picture of a man and a woman kissing, right? The truth is that people are offended by the one and not the other, and so the argument that you're making - which nominally appears neutral on its face - ends up being a code for supressing anything and everything related to homosexuality.
- wolf
It's 2011. Part of the population is pedophile. It always will be. Deal with it.
Not that they are the same (pedophiles harm others, but it is widely believed it is not a choice someone makes.) Do you see how silly your argument is?
We have people that do not like others for whatever reason. It is not your place to judge them. As long as they are tolerant, regardless of their fucked up views, then there is no issue.
freud suggested the pedophilia, neurosis, and homosexuality comes from a fucked up childhood/household, not that someone was born with it. its close though, as they are this 'way' before adulthood.
with how many fucked up parents we have breeding in this country especially in modern times, its easy to see the connection and the rise of the populations of children exhibiting such symptoms.
Most of you preach about tolerance and that bigotry is wrong. Please keep in mind that you must tolerate the bigots. It is their choice to be that way, just as it is a Muslim's choice to practice Islam or a Christian's choice to go to church.
Hypocrites.
This kid did nothing wrong. He expressed a belief and didn't cause any trouble and expressed no malice. You can be accepting of things without approving of them, as this kid did.
This kid believes homosexuality is wrong, just as many of you believe there is no god, or that cheating on your wife is immoral. Who the fuck are you to say what he believes is wrong?
For things like homosexuality, yeah it usually is. Their being gay does not affect you, so why would you care about it? Homosexuals are disliked because they are different. That's what bigotry is all about - thinking something is wrong just because it is different.
Pure. Gold.
Anyway, the teacher did over react. And, if people want to disapprove about a human being's right to live how they wish to, well, go ahead. But, you won't make them go away.
No one should scream in your face about how you must accept anyone. But, there should be zero tolerance for hate against the person you disapprove of.
That's a good point, and if it were just a poster that happens to have two men kissing (which statistically would be quite unlikely but possible), then I'd agree completely. You don't agree they should do that, fine, it's a free country and they probably don't care what you think anyway. But assuming that this teacher is continuously bringing up homosexuality in his German class, he's wrong. His job is to teach German, not to promote acceptance (or nonacceptance) of homosexuality. If he used the poster to illicit an anti-gay response from his class to make the point that in Germany homosexuality isn't considered aberrant behavior and therefore it should be equally tolerated in America, he's probably doing a good thing, making kids think rather than just accept what they have been taught while using the context of the culture whose language they are studying. There's not enough of that in school, and if he can teach children to not reflexively assume someone is bad just because others do by showing him others who don't, that's also a good thing. But if he really is continually bringing up the subject as alleged, he's using his classroom not to do the job for which he is nominally being paid, but rather as a platform for his own personal activism.
I usually agree with zsdersw about these issues, but I differ about this thread. I think there have been a number of smart, thoughtful points raised pro and con.
Also, on the point of creating a hostile environment, there are two sides to most issues. In order to prevent creating a hostile environment, one must either ban all speech, or choose which side will be correct. Those who believe differently will still be in a hostile environment, with the added stress of that hostile environment being state-enforced. So when you say someone cannot express an opinion because it will create a hostile environment for someone else, you're really saying "I am correct and my viewpoints should have the force of law."