Bull fucking shit. Damn teachers earn far more than they deserve and get more training then they need for grades K-8. Fuck the damn freeloading teachers. Only 7% of Detroit's 8th graders are proficient or higher in reading. Fail teachers shouldn't get paid more for failing.
It's too bad K-12 teachers are quasi-government workers, because when there are crap teachers or crap schools all teachers everywhere get blamed. That generalization doesn't happen so much in the private sector.
And as bad as some of those teachers and schools probably are, and as dumb as they are regarding teacher unions and things like tenure, I'm guessing they have an extremely rough demographic to work with.
Bull fucking shit. Damn teachers earn far more than they deserve and get more training then they need for grades K-8. Fuck the damn freeloading teachers. Only 7% of Detroit's 8th graders are proficient or higher in reading. Fail teachers shouldn't get paid more for failing.
Last updated 07 December 2011 (RH)
police and firefighters would be excluded because of the dangerousness of their jobs and the need for a "special bond" among them.
:Yay! Information provided in a biased manner with no numbers for comparison!
I find it very odd that these numbers are from 2011 yet the news has absolutely exploded only in the last 10 hours. And those cites all have a certain leaning to them. (Dailypaul, exposethemedia, americanconservativenews, secretsofthefed) How convenient. Also convenient is the omission of 'Basic' attainment percents. Basic is not failing. If they were to retain only a basic rating through to adulthood that would be equivalent to 'can perform everyday math/literacy activities'
Now 7% seems pretty damn bad. And it is - don't get me wrong. DPS sucks and no one in their right mind would work there or have their kids attend there. Which is the problem. No one who cares wants their kids to go there so only those who don't care are left. How well do you think they are going to do?
Now for some comparison:
Philly 15%
Milwaukee: 10%
LA:15%
Fresno:11%
DCPS:13%
Cleveland:11%
Dallas:13%
We can see that 7% is not that far off from similar inner city areas. Yes, DPS is at the bottom of the pile but Detroit is also a city that has experienced far more economic devastation than any other major metropolitan area.
Maybe its more of an 'inner city, depressed socio-economic status' thing than just a 'teacher' thing.
Your experience is clearly directly applicable to every teacher in Michigan because every single job in the world is identical in every regard.
You didn't have any trouble finding the information
If you think those numbers validate the money we spend on public education and the union teachers then you should be ashamed. Whooppee! 11% of 8th graders can actually read! Union teachers rock!
Did you enjoy seeing the union violence in Michigan?
Can you link proof that only 11% can read?
At least it was better than the 4% of Detroit kids that tested proficient at math. 4%! Great job union teacher parasites, you all deserve a raise!
So - is that a 'no' that you cannot find proof backing up your claim? And what makes you think they are getting raises?
They don't deserve raises and is that a "no" that you support the union violence in Michigan on Tuesday?
If they aren't getting raises and they don't deserve ones why did you say 'You deserve a raise?'
You never asked me before if I supported the violence, only if I enjoyed it. I do not support the violence used in the protest. You still have not responded about your original 11% claim
You posted it, Fresno at 11% and Cleveland at 11% with Milwaukee at 10%Now for some comparison:
Philly 15%
Milwaukee: 10%
LA:15%
Fresno:11%
DCPS:13%
Cleveland:11%
Dallas:13%
You posted it, Fresno at 11% and Cleveland at 11% with Milwaukee at 10%
11% of 8th graders can actually read!
The Basic attainment level includes literacy.
*sigh* I see you can't seem to comprehend what is going on here so let me help you out. You said:
This is not true. You are trying to link 11% being proficient as only 11% as being able to read. This is a blatant disregard for the definitions listed on the NCES website for what constitutes proficient and basic levels.
Perhaps I confused you by using the big word 'literacy'. I will try to make this easier: Basic level can read too. Therefore you have to add the Basic level of attainment to the proficient to get closer to the correct percent. This gives you significantly more than 11% in every single school in this survey. Furthermore - the NCES does not list the literacy ability of those below Basic so it is possible for none\some\all of those to be literate as well
So - again - do you have any proof that only 11% can read? Or can you just not comprehend this study?
Because RTW is all about ending unions and lowering workers wages and benefits back to reality so businesses can compete in the global economy and not die.
Sure is a lot of hatred for teachers on this forum. Must be a lot of poor students here.
While I absolutely agree that teachers, on the whole, are undermotivated and underpaid, claiming they need similar pay to doctors/dentists is a bit silly. It does not take nearly the same amount of education, not to mention student loan debt, to become a teacher than it does to become a doctor. Should both professions be respected? Absolutely. Should they be compensated the same? I think not.
Don't forget malpractice insurance, which in high cost states is usually over $100k per year. That causes your rates to go up quickly
Becoming a teacher is easy.
Becoming a doctor is not.
This is why the pay is different.
Pretty simple.
*sigh* I see you can't seem to comprehend what is going on here so let me help you out. You said:
This is not true. You are trying to link 11% being proficient as only 11% as being able to read. This is a blatant disregard for the definitions listed on the NCES website for what constitutes proficient and basic levels.
Perhaps I confused you by using the big word 'literacy'. I will try to make this easier: Basic level can read too. Therefore you have to add the Basic level of attainment to the proficient to get closer to the correct percent. This gives you significantly more than 11% in every single school in this survey. Furthermore - the NCES does not list the literacy ability of those below Basic so it is possible for none\some\all of those to be literate as well
So - again - do you have any proof that only 11% can read? Or can you just not comprehend this study?
Ohh horrors! My mistake. It's Detroit Michigan kids that have a 7% proficiency or better reading ability. Some of the others can read, slowly, if the words aren't com......pli..cated.
So forgetting about who can read or not for the moment, what is your point exactly? I may have missed it before. So is it that according to a National Center for Education Statistics assessment 11% or 10% or 13% or some small number of students are passing? I may have gotten this wrong, so help me out, I am coming to the party late, but wouldn't that mean the majority of the students 89%, 90% or 87% are not passing a test provided by NCES? If the teachers are doing that poorly, find the problem and fix it.
The teacher's unions seem at odds with this, since their is no incentive for teachers to do well if they can't be fired.
teachers or administrative who receive three annual “ineffective” ratings must be dismissed under the law.
Let the local communities pay their tax dollars directly to their own schools. Let them have control over the hiring and firing of superintendents, principals and teachers in their own communities, since it is the parents that they are working for.
The money should not go all the way up to the federal government, only to trickle back down once everyone along the way has taken their big slice of the pie.
good thread!
*sigh* I see you can't seem to comprehend what is going on here so let me help you out. You said:
This is not true. You are trying to link 11% being proficient as only 11% as being able to read. This is a blatant disregard for the definitions listed on the NCES website for what constitutes proficient and basic levels.
Perhaps I confused you by using the big word 'literacy'. I will try to make this easier: Basic level can read too. Therefore you have to add the Basic level of attainment to the proficient to get closer to the correct percent. This gives you significantly more than 11% in every single school in this survey. Furthermore - the NCES does not list the literacy ability of those below Basic so it is possible for none\some\all of those to be literate as well
So - again - do you have any proof that only 11% can read? Or can you just not comprehend this study?
Becoming a teacher is easy.
Becoming a doctor is not.
This is why the pay is different.
Pretty simple.
I understand what you are attempting to debate with Mono but still, 11% provenience in reading for their grade level is a complete and utter failure. I would honestly expect numbers like that to come from a study of "how smart are kids if they don't go to school at all and play Xbox all day". I do understand the numbers are probably skewed a bit by kids that register but don't go to school, kids that plain don't give a fuck, etc.... However, when the normal 8th grade class has a reading proficiency level of what I would expect from the kids wearing red helmets and riding the short bus to school in "special" classes.