Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Proposed

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
One of the classical problems in quantum mechanics concerns a man and his feline companion. The man has placed his cat in an opaque tank and is slowing pumping it full of poison. Now until the man opens the tank and looks inside, he cannot be sure whether the cat is dead or alive. That is to say, the cat is both dead and alive at the same time. Impossible but such is the nature of the problem that faced this man. The man's name is Erwin Schrodinger and the problem is that of his Uncertainty Principle.


For nearly a century, his problem has remained a quixotic quest for physicists. Particle physics has always held that matter can only exist at one state in one time. That is why particles are classified as moving with an up or down spin but nothing in between. In recent years that rule has been bent with the superposition of atoms and other nonliving things. Superposition is the term for an object that is not being observed that exists as both possibilities: up and down, dead and alive. This allows physicists to observe the matter in two different states at the same time. However, thus far it has only been done with non-living things. A life-form has never been superimposed. Now, one physicist says he may have an answer.

Oriol Romero-Isart is at the Max Planck Institute for Quantum Physics in Garching in Germany. Along with his team he is proposing a "Schrodinger's virus" experiment that would follow the same general principles of Schrodinger's Cat. Using an electromagnetic field created by a laser, the virus would be trapped in a vacuum. Then, using another laser, the virus will be slowed down until it lies motionless in its lowest possible energy state.

Now that the virus is fixed, a single photon is used to put the virus into a superposition of two states, moving and non-moving. Up until the point is measured it is in both states. Only after a measurement is it found to be in one state and one alone. The team has suggested that the tobacco mosaic virus be used. The virus is rod-shaped and measures 50 nanometers wide and approximately 1 micrometer long. There is debate however, whether the virus can truly be classified as "alive." However the scientists are confident that the treatment could be extended to tiny micro-organisms such as tardigrades who can survive in vacuum for days, making them suitable for the "Schrodinger treatment."

http://www.physorg.com/news173026471.html
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
"WANTED: Schroedinger's cat. Dead or alive."

Was that always your sig, and you just have a thing for Shroedinger's cat?

EDIT: Also I thought you meant they were going to use an actual cat.
 

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
Originally posted by: Dumac
"WANTED: Schroedinger's cat. Dead or alive."

Was that always your sig, and you just have a thing for Shroedinger's cat?

EDIT: Also I thought you meant they were going to use an actual cat.

it has been my sig for years.
 

LifesABeta

Senior member
Mar 22, 2009
279
0
0
WTF. He puts a cat in a tank and puts poison in it and is not sure if the cat is dead or alive. He could only verify if it were taken out and examined.

I know science isn't all about assumptions. But, I think it's really safe to assume that the cat is DEAD AS FUCK. This is the type of shit one thinks about when they're high...
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,936
3,231
146
I'm not understanding the principle here. Can someone explain why it matters what the observer thinks?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,990
8,225
126
Originally posted by: thehstrybean
That was a total mind fuck

All advanced physics is a mind fuck. I read a book on String Theory that was written for idiots, and I still had a hard time wrapping my brain around the concepts. It's all super fascinating though, and as close as we'll get to real magic in the age of science :^)
 

CoachB

Senior member
Aug 24, 2005
204
0
71
BudAshes,

I agree the principle is hard to grasp. As I understand it, at the quantum particle level, the mere act of observing affects the state of the particle. Theoretically, it is possible that the cat, by all logic poisoned, lives. OR... until a particle is observed/measured it exists in a "undefined" state. At least that is my layman's take on how the whole idea started.
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Quantum mechanics seemed so ugly to me when I took it but to be fair, I didn't completely understand it. By contrast, special relativity seemed quite beautiful. It is pretty funny that they really want to try a Schrodinger's Cat type experiment.
 
S

SlitheryDee

"Superposition is the term for an object that is not being observed that exists as both possibilities: up and down, dead and alive".

"This allows physicists to observe the matter in two different states at the same time".

I usually try to pretend I know a little bit about quantum physics, but could someone tell me how the fuck that is supposed to work? An object can't be observed in order to be in a superposition, but this somehow allows physicists to observe objects in a superposition?
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
...so when can I get my cat back? Is he dead? Alive? Both? Neither? Chicken fried rice? Ow, my head hurts.
 

pray4mojo

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2003
3,647
0
0
This is why my friends dropped quantum physics 3 times in a row and then changed majors.
 

JasonCoder

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2005
1,893
1
81
We all geek out on different things but my opinion here is who gives. Is this going to lead to a longer lasting light bulb or is it the equivalent of overclocking your cereal?
 

fatpat268

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2006
5,853
0
71
Originally posted by: BudAshes
I'm not understanding the principle here. Can someone explain why it matters what the observer thinks?

I guess it's similar to the age-old question: if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to observe it, does it make a sound?
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
Originally posted by: fatpat268
Originally posted by: BudAshes
I'm not understanding the principle here. Can someone explain why it matters what the observer thinks?

I guess it's similar to the age-old question: if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to observe it, does it make a sound?

Essentially whether or not the observer effects outcomes in the universe.

The principle/theory suggests "yes", correct?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,996
126
Originally posted by: Analog
One of the classical problems in quantum mechanics concerns a man and his feline companion. The man has placed his cat in an opaque tank and is slowing pumping it full of poison. Now until the man opens the tank and looks inside, he cannot be sure whether the cat is dead or alive. That is to say, the cat is both dead and alive at the same time. Impossible but such is the nature of the problem that faced this man. The man's name is Erwin Schrodinger and the problem is that of his Uncertainty Principle.

The Uncertainty Principle is Heisenberg, not Schroedinger. In fact, Schroedinger's Cat is his attempt at heaping scorn upon certain beliefs of quantum physics at the time.

 

OOBradm

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
1,730
1
76
Wikipedia:
One can even set up quite ridiculous cases. A cat is penned up in a steel chamber, along with the following device (which must be secured against direct interference by the cat): in a Geiger counter, there is a tiny bit of radioactive substance, so small that perhaps in the course of the hour, one of the atoms decays, but also, with equal probability, perhaps none; if it happens, the counter tube discharges, and through a relay releases a hammer that shatters a small flask of hydrocyanic acid. If one has left this entire system to itself for an hour, one would say that the cat still lives if meanwhile no atom has decayed. The psi-function of the entire system would express this by having in it the living and dead cat (pardon the expression) mixed or smeared out in equal parts.

 
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