Scientific evidence now points to global cooling, contrary to U.N. alarmism

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Isn't the prudent thing to do is to inch close to the edge of the cliff...but not actually jump and risk serious injury until you know for sure what kind of animal is approaching?

Religions need you to act NOW before you can think about the foolishness of jumping off the cliff.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Isn't the prudent thing to do is to inch close to the edge of the cliff...but not actually jump and risk serious injury until you know for sure what kind of animal is approaching?

Religions need you to act NOW before you can think about the foolishness of jumping off the cliff.

Act to do what? Create an agenda to both thwart the pending doom of Global Warming and create a plethora of jobs in that industry... Do you think that may be on the minds of those charged with one or the other aspects of our reality? I do!

I have for as long as I can remember always see the same process unfold when it comes to Congressional action.... Or Executive action as well.. First, they figure out just what it is that they need getting done in order to survive another election... I'm sure they go with the intent to solve the problems of the day.. but they also learn the process of how to do it.
So... they latch onto something that can provide the means to the end objective (doing something that needs doing and getting reelected) Global Warming/Cooling is the catalyst to an entire Economic revival. Even TB Pickens has found it furthers his ummmm... fortunes.
BUT, Congress/Executive can't rush into this atm... Not just yet... Not enough support out in main street to risk action.. so they float balloon after balloon until they are secure in their proposed actions... Can the science sustain their positions and votes... What is the risk that the alternative can destroy their hopes of another election win? They're not all that concerned with adding debt cuz they've seen that folks by and large have become apathetic to the debt...
I think as soon as our Government can get an Universal Agreement (here on Earth, that is) which forces us to comply... in the saving of humanity... folks will again shrug and move on... And we'll have all manner of programs, laws and breathe easy once again...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
DSF: I've tried to be civil with you throughout this discussion. I may jab at you to make a veiled points with words like "bleat" and "pedestrian"...which are subtle references to your 'go with the consensus' mentality without regard to opinions and concerns raised by others.

M: You have no idea how sensitive I am and how easily you can hurt my feelings.

DSF: You're obviously unwilling to engage in any meaningful discussion as illustrated by some of your comments to others like:

"Fuck your stupid shit ass opinions. I don't want the human race to die because of shit head contrariness like you."

"You are biased by your imbecility and don't understand what he said."

"You used to shit and piss in your pants and have the IQ of a chimp so nobody is going to listen to you."

"Your opinion isn't worth shit."

...and those directed specifically at me like:

"You're just a biased idiot because there is nothing at all in the world of logic that would cause you to think as you do."

"You are a fanatic who is pissed that I won't share in your delusions"

M: Those looked pretty intelligent to me.

DSF: And then you have the chutzpah to complain that I should "not punch the person you want to talk to in the nose and you do have that tendency". There is nothing I can say except that I'm sorry if I somehow offended you with my "little poo poo flings"...I mistakenly thought you wouldn't be offended...no malice intended.

M: Would you do me a favor? I wasn't bothered by you, don't be bothered by me.

I'm curious...have you ever thought of why you're so compelled to post on this subject?

M: Sure, when a potential disaster is approaching the people who advocate doing nothing are dangerous. People who pay no attention to the scientific consensus risk getting us all killed. I don't like people who would do that. I think about all the children who will have their happiness ruined.

Rest easy...I'm not bothered by you?just confused by the way you handle yourself and how you deal with others. But I'm sure it all makes perfect sense to you and I'll just leave it at that?life is short and I know futility when I see it.

Back on topic?look at it this way?a large animal is coming towards you and you're backed against the edge of a cliff. Several people in the area say that a tiger is coming to eat you?you look down the cliff and think you can survive the fall and it sure beats the hell out of getting mauled and eaten alive by a ferocious tiger. But there's a small child in the crowd who says?that's not a tiger that's coming?it's my pet dog Fido?he wouldn't hurt a flea. Now the crowd screams for you to jump NOW before it's too late. So what do you do?jump and hope you don't get hurt too bad by the fall or wait a couple seconds and take a second look to see whether a man eating tiger is actually coming your way or if it's just a child's harmless pet?

Yeah?I know?it's not a great analogy?but you should get the gist. In the next 2 years we should have a much better idea of the impact of GCR on our climate and whether a tiger is coming or not. Many recent studies indicate that the potential impact of GCR is huge. FYI, the IPCC report doesn't address the GCR mechanism and, as such, may have grossly underestimated the impact of extraterrestrial forcing (IIRC the current estimate is about 7%). CERN is currently replicating and expanding upon previous experiments on a much larger scale to understand this mechanism better. Preliminary indications do not bode well for the current consensus opinion of the IPCC. BTW, CERN isn't a bunch of crackpot scientists?they have some of the best scientists in the world.

Isn't the prudent thing to do is to inch close to the edge of the cliff...but not actually jump and risk serious injury until you know for sure what kind of animal is approaching?

As I said, I believe in two years the report will tell us we haven't got the money to save ourselves. To survive we would lose too many jobs. Any politician who dares to acts will lose his job.

The thing that is approaching the edge of the cliff is the amoeba of human culture, the collective consciousness of the human race. By the time the parts of the amoeba cable of identifying a cliff have done so and sounded the alarm the rest of the amoeba will have already flowed right over the edge.

 

[PJABBER]

As I said, I believe in two years the report will tell us we haven't got the money to save ourselves. To survive we would lose too many jobs. Any politician who dares to acts will lose his job.

The thing that is approaching the edge of the cliff is the amoeba of human culture, the collective consciousness of the human race. By the time the parts of the amoeba cable of identifying a cliff have done so and sounded the alarm the rest of the amoeba will have already flowed right over the edge.

That is a great image and I concur with the representation, although we can debate what is being trumpeted by the individual amoeba cells as they head over the cliff.

You are right in that the great mass of politicians will not have the courage to confront whatever the situation is evaluated to be. If there really is or is not anthropogenic climate change, heating or cooling, they will be swayed by whatever interest groups control them. You and I are unlikely to know why they vote the way they do, but be assured the majority are not going to be highly altruistic in their actions.

Having a rigorous scientific evaluation of natural phenomenon is going to be a very small part of the decision making process. More important will be whatever influence will be bought and paid for. Only an informed and engaged electorate will overcome the influence of monied interests. That is one of the reasons I have hope the fatally flawed health care/insurance "reform" initiatives will go down in defeat. Otherwise, other factors will hold overwhelming sway to our ultimate detriment.

I appreciate your concern about the amoeba of humanity sliding off a cliff of their own making. I am equally worried.

I do not see the science proclaimed by any and all sides of the debate to be definitive. The longer I look at it the more I am convinced this is a sham for political and economic gain.

I have been engaged in environmentalism for more than 30 years and I don't really want to wait two more years if there is really an issue for what might turn out to be a flawed synthesis, fatally influenced by the prevailing political winds. I really would like some definitive opinion.

Unlike you, I do not think the state of scientific knowledge at this time allows a definitive opinion. I do not expect we will see such an opinion in the immediate future. Therefore, I would rather take a wait and see posture and fight other battles of more immediate concern.

I commend you for your determined defense of your position. Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. I am the Skeptic, I have to pursue the issue more before having the same level of faith.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: PJABBER

As I said, I believe in two years the report will tell us we haven't got the money to save ourselves. To survive we would lose too many jobs. Any politician who dares to acts will lose his job.

The thing that is approaching the edge of the cliff is the amoeba of human culture, the collective consciousness of the human race. By the time the parts of the amoeba cable of identifying a cliff have done so and sounded the alarm the rest of the amoeba will have already flowed right over the edge.

That is a great image and I concur with the representation, although we can debate what is being trumpeted by the individual amoeba cells as they head over the cliff.

You are right in that the great mass of politicians will not have the courage to confront whatever the situation is evaluated to be. If there really is or is not anthropogenic climate change, heating or cooling, they will be swayed by whatever interest groups control them. You and I are unlikely to know why they vote the way they do, but be assured the majority are not going to be highly altruistic in their actions.

Having a rigorous scientific evaluation of natural phenomenon is going to be a very small part of the decision making process. More important will be whatever influence will be bought and paid for. Only an informed and engaged electorate will overcome the influence of monied interests. That is one of the reasons I have hope the fatally flawed health care/insurance "reform" initiatives will go down in defeat. Otherwise, other factors will hold overwhelming sway to our ultimate detriment.

I appreciate your concern about the amoeba of humanity sliding off a cliff of their own making. I am equally worried.

I do not see the science proclaimed by any and all sides of the debate to be definitive. The longer I look at it the more I am convinced this is a sham for political and economic gain.

I have been engaged in environmentalism for more than 30 years and I don't really want to wait two more years if there is really an issue for what might turn out to be a flawed synthesis, fatally influenced by the prevailing political winds. I really would like some definitive opinion.

Unlike you, I do not think the state of scientific knowledge at this time allows a definitive opinion. I do not expect we will see such an opinion in the immediate future. Therefore, I would rather take a wait and see posture and fight other battles of more immediate concern.

I commend you for your determined defense of your position. Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. I am the Skeptic, I have to pursue the issue more before having the same level of faith.

Nice......I am offering nothing other than my opinion that there is a scientific consensus that human activity on the planet is causing climate change. That is all I am saying. That does not mean I know what to do or that there is anything that we can do. I am recommending no course of action. You are skeptical, I am fatalistic. I believe that humanity hates itself, will not see it, and therefore cannot be saved. The egotists of the world would rather die than awaken, and they will get their way.

 

[LunarRay]

Moonbeam the fatalist... hehehehe the ever optimistic Moonbeam is pessimistic or is he optimistic that to be fatalistic is consistent with slow turning wheels of who or what ever makes decisions in this matter.

Awhile back I said that I choose to accept the side NOT supported by Governmental Balloon flights.. That notion is so that the topic never leaves the front burner... Aside from elections there is money problems here abouts and there may be heating ones too.. IF we can get enough discourse on the subject we can get folks to adopt a strategy to determine the reality.
But, I just read that NASA has run out of money to search for Asteroids etc. that can impact on Earth and assuming an impact might have some relevance to Warming/Cooling and other factors I don't see where funds might come to thwart a Global Climate issue unless someone can get the Accountants to Score a proposed bill as being neutral (cost/income).

I remain confident that just as soon as we can push a Universal Health Care Bill through that Global Climate will be next... Well... right after we get China to comply with the Climate issue.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam the fatalist... hehehehe the ever optimistic Moonbeam is pessimistic or is he optimistic that to be fatalistic is consistent with slow turning wheels of who or what ever makes decisions in this matter.

Awhile back I said that I choose to accept the side NOT supported by Governmental Balloon flights.. That notion is so that the topic never leaves the front burner... Aside from elections there is money problems here abouts and there may be heating ones too.. IF we can get enough discourse on the subject we can get folks to adopt a strategy to determine the reality.
But, I just read that NASA has run out of money to search for Asteroids etc. that can impact on Earth and assuming an impact might have some relevance to Warming/Cooling and other factors I don't see where funds might come to thwart a Global Climate issue unless someone can get the Accountants to Score a proposed bill as being neutral (cost/income).

I remain confident that just as soon as we can push a Universal Health Care Bill through that Global Climate will be next... Well... right after we get China to comply with the Climate issue.

All I know is that if it costs money to save ourselves and that money has to come from those who have it, they will refuse to give it because they will prefer to be dead. Self hate destroys real values and creates substitutes for self worth. Those who value money do so because they have no love of self. They do not know of the many mansions in our Father's house.