Scientist who believes in God!

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Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: jman19

Who cares? Lots of scientists say they believe in god.

OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.

I would argue that most atheists are more versed in theistic matters than most of the devout. I can say unequivocally that I am more educated in theistic matters than any Christian that I know. I can't speak much for other religions, but as So eloquently stated, many assume faith just because they've been told to do so. It's hard to question what your peers, parents, etc. have been nailing into your brain since before you were able to utter words in refutation.

For most of us (I have some different views, but that's not important), the conclusions were derived from many hours of reflective thought and research. We've heard all of this before, and most of us have considered the very things that Collins is talking about. He's free to draw his own conclusions.

Personally, I see nothing at all wrong with Collins' view. He's resolved the matters nicely in his mind, and he's free to do that. I would argue that his idea of "God" is very different from most theists. He takes on an impression of God that many scientists do, but you'll find that many use it as a more abstract representation of that which precedes the natural world they study and not so much a personal God.
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Rob9874
OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.


LOL!!!

I believe that was quite tongue-in-cheek, though I find it completely hilarious to see such a comment get pounced on when it's the exact statement IN REVERSE that all the athies throw out when arguing AGAINST God.

Thank you! Ladies and Gentlemen: the only intelligent person on this forum. Yes, I'm a Christian, but no I'm not a fundie, and no I don't care if internet forum members believe or not. I posted the link, as I thought it was interesting. I wrote the tongue-in-cheek follow up to the well-thought-out responses I got. Wanted to see if I could ruffle any feathers by suggesting that one needs "blind faith" to believe there is no god. Didn't mean to start a flame war, but I guess I should have known better on ATOT. I wonder if those who responded feel pretty stupid now.

(No need to use your Debate 101 techniques of discrediting my statement by proving that I contradicted myself by saying I wanted to "ruffle feathers" and "didn't mean to start a flame war". I realize I said both.)
 

Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: FoBoT
that is pretty common

Indeed. Scientist believes in god and takes an allegorical view of the bible. Pretty damn common.

As a scientist that works with *gasp* other scientists I would say that the majority of the people I have worked with believe in God (or Gods in some cases). I have in fact worked with two individuals in two different labs in two different parts of the country whom have left the science field to enter seminary school - which I find somewhat a tad bit interesting.

I think that most scientists know what they personally believe in and just deal with it as a part of life. It is, for the most part, a small select group of people on both sides of the fence that like to scream and make some big ass issue out of something that really should not be an issue to begin with.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Rob9874
OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.


LOL!!!

I believe that was quite tongue-in-cheek, though I find it completely hilarious to see such a comment get pounced on when it's the exact statement IN REVERSE that all the athies throw out when arguing AGAINST God.

Thank you! Ladies and Gentlemen: the only intelligent person on this forum. Yes, I'm a Christian, but no I'm not a fundie, and no I don't care if internet forum members believe or not. I posted the link, as I thought it was interesting. I wrote the tongue-in-cheek follow up to the well-thought-out responses I got. Wanted to see if I could ruffle any feathers by suggesting that one needs "blind faith" to believe there is no god. Didn't mean to start a flame war, but I guess I should have known better on ATOT. I wonder if those who responded feel pretty stupid now.

(No need to use your Debate 101 techniques of discrediting my statement by proving that I contradicted myself by saying I wanted to "ruffle feathers" and "didn't mean to start a flame war". I realize I said both.)

So... you made a fool of yourself, you're now saying it was all a ruse, and now you ask if everyone else feels foolish?

Hmm.

EDIT: BTW, sorry for being mean I'm in a bad mood today.
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Rob9874
OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.


LOL!!!

I believe that was quite tongue-in-cheek, though I find it completely hilarious to see such a comment get pounced on when it's the exact statement IN REVERSE that all the athies throw out when arguing AGAINST God.

Thank you! Ladies and Gentlemen: the only intelligent person on this forum. Yes, I'm a Christian, but no I'm not a fundie, and no I don't care if internet forum members believe or not. I posted the link, as I thought it was interesting. I wrote the tongue-in-cheek follow up to the well-thought-out responses I got. Wanted to see if I could ruffle any feathers by suggesting that one needs "blind faith" to believe there is no god. Didn't mean to start a flame war, but I guess I should have known better on ATOT. I wonder if those who responded feel pretty stupid now.

(No need to use your Debate 101 techniques of discrediting my statement by proving that I contradicted myself by saying I wanted to "ruffle feathers" and "didn't mean to start a flame war". I realize I said both.)

So... you made a fool of yourself, you're now saying it was all a ruse, and now you ask if everyone else feels foolish?

Hmm.

EDIT: BTW, sorry for being mean I'm in a bad mood today.

Not sure how I made a fool of myself. Do tell...
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: jman19

Who cares? Lots of scientists say they believe in god.

OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.

I would argue that most atheists are more versed in theistic matters than most of the devout. I can say unequivocally that I am more educated in theistic matters than any Christian that I know. I can't speak much for other religions, but as So eloquently stated, many assume faith just because they've been told to do so. It's hard to question what your peers, parents, etc. have been nailing into your brain since before you were able to utter words in refutation.

For most of us (I have some different views, but that's not important), the conclusions were derived from many hours of reflective thought and research. We've heard all of this before, and most of us have considered the very things that Collins is talking about. He's free to draw his own conclusions.

Personally, I see nothing at all wrong with Collins' view. He's resolved the matters nicely in his mind, and he's free to do that. I would argue that his idea of "God" is very different from most theists. He takes on an impression of God that many scientists do, but you'll find that many use it as a more abstract representation of that which precedes the natural world they study and not so much a personal God.

the last part you mentioned is definitely very true of a lot of scientists. They tend to share a belief in god, not God. Difference being the fact that yes, its not a personal God, nor is it even a deity, but rather simply the natural laws of the universe. In that representation, its a pretty version of Atheism.. at least sorta, because its not a deity, but rather a way to, in one sense of the word, represent the way the system works. Most scientists tend not to believe in a creator, and rather a natural flow of events in the beginning of the universe. Einstein was chief among those types of scientists because he didn't believe in the deity.

(not debating what ya said, just supplementing your words)
 

HDs suck

Member
Apr 2, 2007
42
0
0
Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
Originally posted by: Fritzo
He shares my views on God. God isn't a being that controls our lives on the day to day basis...he is what runs the universe. God is essentially physics in my view.

Why can't more people accept this belief?


Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.


damn druids (lol jk i had to say it)
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
Not only isnt this news but it isnt even interesting.
There is no rule in science that says god cant exist.
Also, Einstein believed in god, so this is really just evidence of the OP's ignorance.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Ignorance breeds religion.
Religion breeds free thought.
Free thought breeds science.
Science proves religion.

religion != The Bible

That's the problem with major religions. They tell people what they should and should not do, question it and you got to hell. I personally am not afraid of hell. I will do what I believe is right, and I will follow god's word as best as any man can. If that isn't enough for god, god can bite me.

To modify a famous quote:

Don't try to be a holy man, just be a man, and let god make his own decisions.
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
81
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Rob9874
OK, so I didn't put much explanation behind it. This is a new commentary, from cnn.com's main page today, by Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., the director of the Human Genome Project. A pretty prominent scientist, who actually presents an intellectual argument against atheism in his book. Of course the atheists here aren't interested. They're not interested in hearing both sides and deciding for themselves. They just pay attention to anything that supports their blind faith that there is no God.


LOL!!!

I believe that was quite tongue-in-cheek, though I find it completely hilarious to see such a comment get pounced on when it's the exact statement IN REVERSE that all the athies throw out when arguing AGAINST God.

Thank you! Ladies and Gentlemen: the only intelligent person on this forum. Yes, I'm a Christian, but no I'm not a fundie, and no I don't care if internet forum members believe or not. I posted the link, as I thought it was interesting. I wrote the tongue-in-cheek follow up to the well-thought-out responses I got. Wanted to see if I could ruffle any feathers by suggesting that one needs "blind faith" to believe there is no god. Didn't mean to start a flame war, but I guess I should have known better on ATOT. I wonder if those who responded feel pretty stupid now.

(No need to use your Debate 101 techniques of discrediting my statement by proving that I contradicted myself by saying I wanted to "ruffle feathers" and "didn't mean to start a flame war". I realize I said both.)

So... you made a fool of yourself, you're now saying it was all a ruse, and now you ask if everyone else feels foolish?

Hmm.

EDIT: BTW, sorry for being mean I'm in a bad mood today.

Not sure how I made a fool of myself. Do tell...

You posted that a scientist believes in God like it was something new.
You started a flamewar bringing up overused and illogical arguments.
Then you said it was your intent to start a flamewar and bragged that you were successful, as if it's hard to do.

Being pleased with yourself about accomplishing nothing does make you look pretty foolish.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.

There's no difference between those 2 except to atheists and fundies.
 

iamaelephant

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2004
3,816
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.

There's no difference between those 2 except to atheists and fundies.

Then why is it necessary to use the word "god"? To most people this conjures up images of a deity, which is a problem. And yes, I'm aware that intellectual giants like Einstein and Stephen Hawking used the word "god" in this manner from time to time. I just think it's irresponsible, and only serves to give the fundies ammunition is a war of strawmen, hyperbole and flat out lies.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Also, Einstein believed in god, so this is really just evidence of the OP's ignorance.
No.
Yes, he did. It just depends on how you define "God." If, for example, you define "God" as the Christian God based on a "literal" interpretation of the Christian Bible, then no, Einstein didn't believe in God. If, however, you define "God" as nature and the universe itself (or pantheism, Spinoza's God, etc.), then yes, Einstein did believe in God.

Oh, and please please don't deface my user description on the AT-Wiki Who's Who page again because I disagreed with you. :roll:
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Not only isnt this news but it isnt even interesting.
There is no rule in science that says god cant exist.
Also, Einstein believed in god, so this is really just evidence of the OP's ignorance.

OK, Einstein... I am aware that there's no rule in science that says a god can't exist. and I know Einstein (and many other scientists) believed in a god. I just saw this article today, and decided to post it here, as it was relevant to the recent thread "Will Science Ever Disprove Religion?" Thanks for calling me ignorant.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.

There's no difference between those 2 except to atheists and fundies.

Then why is it necessary to use the word "god"? To most people this conjures up images of a deity, which is a problem. And yes, I'm aware that intellectual giants like Einstein and Stephen Hawking used the word "god" in this manner from time to time. I just think it's irresponsible, and only serves to give the fundies ammunition is a war of strawmen, hyperbole and flat out lies.

I doubt that Einstein cared or that Hawking cares what you or fundies think about the matter. "God" is the most appropriate word in this context, i.e. when discussing the universe as the one all everything creating itself. The fact is that it's the fundies and the atheists who are wrong about what the ancients meant by God.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
There was an interview/discussion between him and Dawkins in Time (I think) of around November last year. It was very interesting, though I did disagree with some of the things he said (and close to 100% of what Dawkins said).
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: yowolabi
You posted that a scientist believes in God like it was something new.

It was on cnn.com today. It was a new article. I thought it was relavent, in regards to the recent thread I mentioned earlier about science vs. religion.

You started a flamewar bringing up overused and illogical arguments.

Which argument was that? The link I posted? Or saying that atheism requires blind faith? I think you post canned responses about "overused and illogical arguments" in response to any Christian on ATOT. Did you even read anything I posted?


Then you said it was your intent to start a flamewar and bragged that you were successful, as if it's hard to do.

Being pleased with yourself about accomplishing nothing does make you look pretty foolish.


No, I said I didn't meant to start a flamewar. (You DIDN'T read my post, did you?) I said I merely posted a link to an article, and when I got ignorant responses, I made a funny about atheism requiring blind faith. Nope, don't feel foolish.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
136
Originally posted by: Crono
There was an interview/discussion between him and Dawkins in Time (I think) of around November last year. It was very interesting, though I did disagree with some of the things he said (and close to 100% of what Dawkins said).

Yep, here it is (transcript of actual debate starts on pg 3)

It's probably been posted here before, but for those who haven't read it, it's interesting to say the least.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.

There's no difference between those 2 except to atheists and fundies.

Then why is it necessary to use the word "god"? To most people this conjures up images of a deity, which is a problem. And yes, I'm aware that intellectual giants like Einstein and Stephen Hawking used the word "god" in this manner from time to time. I just think it's irresponsible, and only serves to give the fundies ammunition is a war of strawmen, hyperbole and flat out lies.

I doubt that Einstein cared or that Hawking cares what you or fundies think about the matter. "God" is the most appropriate word in this context, i.e. when discussing the universe as the one all everything creating itself. The fact is that it's the fundies and the atheists who are wrong about what the ancients meant by God.

how are atheists interpretations of what the religion's define as God wrong? religions clearly define a creator, a supernatural being above the laws of the universe.


and to go on the record, Einstein did not believe in a deity, so when one states he believes in god, one should clearly define it with a lowercase g, because its not a lifeform nor a creator, just a set of laws.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Most of us scientists believe in God. We just spell it 'n' 'a' 't' 'u' 'r' 'e'.

There's no difference between those 2 except to atheists and fundies.

Then why is it necessary to use the word "god"? To most people this conjures up images of a deity, which is a problem. And yes, I'm aware that intellectual giants like Einstein and Stephen Hawking used the word "god" in this manner from time to time. I just think it's irresponsible, and only serves to give the fundies ammunition is a war of strawmen, hyperbole and flat out lies.

I doubt that Einstein cared or that Hawking cares what you or fundies think about the matter. "God" is the most appropriate word in this context, i.e. when discussing the universe as the one all everything creating itself. The fact is that it's the fundies and the atheists who are wrong about what the ancients meant by God.

how are atheists interpretations of what the religion's define as God wrong? religions clearly define a creator, a supernatural being above the laws of the universe.


and to go on the record, Einstein did not believe in a deity, so when one states he believes in god, one should clearly define it with a lowercase g, because its not a lifeform nor a creator, just a set of laws.

Notice how I said earlier that the opinions of rabid atheists and fundie religionists are something I don't care about. Now... why they appeal me to their definitions?

And no, the capital G is correct. I wasn't referring to a set of laws, I was referring to the universe itself. Expand. Your. Closed. Mind.
 
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