SCOTUS rules: ACA subsidies apply to ALL states

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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
I haven't read the full opinion yet, but for those of you blasting Scalia you should understand that he has a history of being a strict constructionist and a real ball buster when it comes to constitutional/statutory interpretation. Most of his opinions advocate for following long standing canons of statutory/constitutional construction, with a very heavy emphasis on the textual canons. Once you understand that his opinions are almost entirely predictable.

Lol. Maybe you should read his opinion. Or just read Robert's Majority Opinion where he uses Scalia's own words in prior cases to make his point against Scalia. Maybe then you will have a better "understanding" of Scalia.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Scalia is like Dogbert. When he needs wagging room, he gets it from those he's hoodwinking.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
It was clearly written that way on purpose to incentivize evil backwards conservative states to set up exchanges. I'm pretty sure I read here or elsewhere some compassionate democrat saying that the citizens of mouthbreather states deserved not to have subsidies because they voted for awful conservatives.

The only time context would matter would be if the wording were difficult and it wasn't. Still, I can't help but wonder if all of these problems could have been avoided if we had read it before we passed it like Obama said we would.

I'm quite concerned that your intentions only matter when you're a giant corporation or the government.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It was clearly written that way on purpose to incentivize evil backwards conservative states to set up exchanges. I'm pretty sure I read here or elsewhere some compassionate democrat saying that the citizens of mouthbreather states deserved not to have subsidies because they voted for awful conservatives.

The only time context would matter would be if the wording were difficult and it wasn't. Still, I can't help but wonder if all of these problems could have been avoided if we had read it before we passed it like Obama said we would.

I'm quite concerned that your intentions only matter when you're a giant corporation or the government.

Drama queen often?

As Roberts points out & as you apparently refuse to comprehend, Congress *obviously* did not intend to destroy their own creation. That is the greater context, making picayune quibbling over the interpretation of a particular passage specious & lame.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
That's weird since Massachusetts already had Romneycare, which we're told is the same thing, and good pre-'Bama coverage levels. So there shouldn't have been a huge influx of new patients. Is there something else depressing the available number of physicians, some unique tax or especially high insurance costs making the place an undesirable locale to set up shop?

sort of, there were some changes to MA care post Obama care as outlined in this article in the globe, which increased enrollment even further.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazin...ssachusetts/4lMPvCS2fIDbInyhLBxxpL/story.html
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
You would think that with the thousands upon thousands of pages of the law and associated regulations, there would be zero leeway as to the actual intent. Isn't Congress elected to pass laws, not intents of laws?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You would think that with the thousands upon thousands of pages of the law and associated regulations, there would be zero leeway as to the actual intent. Isn't Congress elected to pass laws, not intents of laws?

Roberts pointed out that the intent of the law is quite clear. Only those with intent to deceive ever offered otherwise.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Roberts pointed out that the intent of the law is quite clear. Only those with intent to deceive ever offered otherwise.

*SIGH*

As expected, you completely missed the point - that courts *had to* determine the intent of the law, because it was not spelled out properly.

I guess that's what happens when you get industries to write your laws instead of the people that are elected to do so.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
*SIGH*

As expected, you completely missed the point - that courts *had to* determine the intent of the law, because it was not spelled out properly.

I guess that's what happens when you get industries to write your laws instead of the people that are elected to do so.

Where was it stated that the intent of the law was in question because the intent wasn't clear?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
It was clearly written that way on purpose to incentivize evil backwards conservative states to set up exchanges. I'm pretty sure I read here or elsewhere some compassionate democrat saying that the citizens of mouthbreather states deserved not to have subsidies because they voted for awful conservatives.

The only time context would matter would be if the wording were difficult and it wasn't. Still, I can't help but wonder if all of these problems could have been avoided if we had read it before we passed it like Obama said we would.

I'm quite concerned that your intentions only matter when you're a giant corporation or the government.

You're right, the wording wasn't difficult. That's why the majority relied on straight statutory interpretation. Basically the case should never have been brought to begin with. It was ironic that the Chief Justice showed what a hack Scalia is as well by showing that Scalia had no trouble understanding that the law covered all states until it was convenient for him not to.

The nice part about this though is that the majority not only affirmed this reading of the law, but they took it a step further by preventing any future president from interpreting it differently.

I'm sure that you are very relieved to hear your concerns are unfounded.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
*SIGH*

As expected, you completely missed the point - that courts *had to* determine the intent of the law, because it was not spelled out properly.

I guess that's what happens when you get industries to write your laws instead of the people that are elected to do so.

No. It's what happens when human beings undertake complex tasks in a short period of time.

The people who actually write things, are people. They are not infallible.

All this case was about was, some very clever people spent a lot of time looking for ways to undo the law, and they came across this apparent contradiction, and ran with it.

No one with any sense could possibly believe that Congress intended that the mechanism they created for letting people apply for subsidies, when a state did not set up it's own exchange, would then deny all applicants.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0

No. It's what happens when human beings undertake complex tasks in a short period of time.

The people who actually write things, are people. They are not infallible...

Not infallible?

Hire consultants to write a bill purposely designed to fool voters. Invite insurance company lobbyists to help write the bill. Lie to the voters about what is in the bill. Don't let the voters even see the bill until after it is passed by Congress.

Then complain because the voters don't trust the politicians?

LOL

Uno
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126



Not infallible?

Hire consultants to write a bill purposely designed to fool voters. Invite insurance company lobbyists to help write the bill. Lie to the voters about what is in the bill. Don't let the voters even see the bill until after it is passed by Congress.

Then complain because the voters don't trust the politicians?

LOL

Uno

the butthurt in this one is high.
its no wonder he cant swallow the gay-marriage ruling either
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,803
29,553
146



Not infallible?

Hire consultants to write a bill purposely designed to fool voters. Invite insurance company lobbyists to help write the bill. Lie to the voters about what is in the bill. Don't let the voters even see the bill until after it is passed by Congress.

Then complain because the voters don't trust the politicians?

LOL

Uno

well, when it comes to the petty attacks on the law, especially this last one, do you doubt that Gruber was correct?

Anyone, anyone that thought this challenge had better than a student's chance in Hastert's locker room, is a fucking moron. Let alone thinking the challenge was in any way legitimate.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Its going to death spiral anyway.

<-- This is me not caring since I now have employer insurance. But let me tell you... the individual market is basically dead.

And for all the older people with nice plans who think they did a good thing supporting obamacare... wait for the cadillac tax .

The ACA is not one size fits all. Guess who it fucks over? Hmm lets see. Temp workers. New college grads. Older Atypical college students who try to work while in college. People going back to college. People changing careers. etc. etc.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,376
7,266
136
Its going to death spiral anyway.

<-- This is me not caring since I now have employer insurance. But let me tell you... the individual market is basically dead.

And for all the older people with nice plans who think they did a good thing supporting obamacare... wait for the cadillac tax .

The ACA is not one size fits all. Guess who it fucks over? Hmm lets see. Temp workers. New college grads. Older Atypical college students who try to work while in college. People going back to college. People changing careers. etc. etc.
How does it hurt new college grads since they can stay on parents insurance till age 26?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
Its going to death spiral anyway.

<-- This is me not caring since I now have employer insurance. But let me tell you... the individual market is basically dead.

And for all the older people with nice plans who think they did a good thing supporting obamacare... wait for the cadillac tax .

The ACA is not one size fits all. Guess who it fucks over? Hmm lets see. Temp workers. New college grads. Older Atypical college students who try to work while in college. People going back to college. People changing careers. etc. etc.

Care to give a prediction on when?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,803
29,553
146
Its going to death spiral anyway.

<-- This is me not caring since I now have employer insurance. But let me tell you... the individual market is basically dead.

And for all the older people with nice plans who think they did a good thing supporting obamacare... wait for the cadillac tax .

The ACA is not one size fits all. Guess who it fucks over? Hmm lets see. Temp workers. New college grads. Older Atypical college students who try to work while in college. People going back to college. People changing careers. etc. etc.

a timetable would be nice. Your same talking points were predicted c. 2012, but have yet to occur...just as the spiraling costs were predicted. Yet, costs are stabilizing, savings are predicted at greater and greater rates year to year.

I'm only curious when the first apocalyptic prediction will ever come to pass, rather than fall flat in the face of reality, as has only been the case to this point.

I mean, some evidence or at least an argument backed by numbers would be interesting to see.


....do you think this will happen around the same time all that wealth we gleefully shoved to the top over the last 30 years finally starts trickling down to us peons?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
a timetable would be nice. Your same talking points were predicted c. 2012, but have yet to occur...just as the spiraling costs were predicted. Yet, costs are stabilizing, savings are predicted at greater and greater rates year to year.

I'm only curious when the first apocalyptic prediction will ever come to pass, rather than fall flat in the face of reality, as has only been the case to this point.

I mean, some evidence or at least an argument backed by numbers would be interesting to see.


....do you think this will happen around the same time all that wealth we gleefully shoved to the top over the last 30 years finally starts trickling down to us peons?

It's gonna happen, right after trickle down starts working, which is any time now
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
As Roberts points out & as you apparently refuse to comprehend, Congress *obviously* did not intend to destroy their own creation. That is the greater context, making picayune quibbling over the interpretation of a particular passage specious & lame.

It wasn't congress' creation, and I don't see how it working as written would destroy it. I'm not sure why so many people think people are elected to congress to throw feces at the wall and see what sticks then fix the problems with the legislation that they passed immediately after. The passage was written the way it was for a reason, it had to be edited after the fact because it didn't work as intended.

On the topic of intentions, AT&T "intended" for their website to be secure when it had... no security what-so-ever. So when weev programmatically iterated through a bunch of iDevice registrations and embarrassed them... this is how it turned out for weev. Luckily for weev, they did it wrong and his conviction was overturned. Now, if we add an "intentions exemption" for every act of foolishness perpetrated by an agent of government it won't end well. That's what the rule of law is about, it used to be a big deal.

You're right, the wording wasn't difficult.

State means state, glad we could work that out.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,320
15,117
136
It wasn't congress' creation, and I don't see how it working as written would destroy it. I'm not sure why so many people think people are elected to congress to throw feces at the wall and see what sticks then fix the problems with the legislation that they passed immediately after. The passage was written the way it was for a reason, it had to be edited after the fact because it didn't work as intended.

On the topic of intentions, AT&T "intended" for their website to be secure when it had... no security what-so-ever. So when weev programmatically iterated through a bunch of iDevice registrations and embarrassed them... this is how it turned out for weev. Luckily for weev, they did it wrong and his conviction was overturned. Now, if we add an "intentions exemption" for every act of foolishness perpetrated by an agent of government it won't end well. That's what the rule of law is about, it used to be a big deal.



State means state, glad we could work that out.


Wut?!

 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
State means state, glad we could work that out.

As part of his write-up, Roberts quoted the passage in the ACA that specified that the federal government would create "such exchanges" (state exchanges) that a state failed to create on its own. So a "state exchange" clearly refers to both state exchanges created by the states and state exchanges created by the federal government.

Glad we could work that out.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Its going to death spiral anyway.

<-- This is me not caring since I now have employer insurance. But let me tell you... the individual market is basically dead.

And for all the older people with nice plans who think they did a good thing supporting obamacare... wait for the cadillac tax .

The ACA is not one size fits all. Guess who it fucks over? Hmm lets see. Temp workers. New college grads. Older Atypical college students who try to work while in college. People going back to college. People changing careers. etc. etc.
What's important is that it doesn't implode until after January of 2017. If that means more postponements or delays through executive fiat, then that's what will be done.

In the meantime we'll have more lies from our pathological liar in chief.

White House Refuses to Substantiate Latest Obamacare Success Story

When the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Obamacare Thursday, President Barack Obama spoke of the time he met a mom whose son was saved thanks to the law. But when asked to explain the story, the White House went silent.

“And they’ve told me that it has changed their lives for the better,” the president declared. “I’ve had moms come up and say, my son was able to see a doctor and get diagnosed, and catch a tumor early, and he’s alive today because of this law. This law is working. And it’s going to keep doing just that.”

After the detailed aside was made, The Daily Caller News Foundation reached out to White House press secretary Josh Earnest directly asking for some additional details including the context of the conversation and what were the circumstances leading to the president meeting the mother.

Despite several requests over two days, the White House has refused to substantiate the story.
What's concerning is the growing number of useful idiots that choose to believe the systemic lying that is the cornerstone of this administration as well as the lies coming out of the mouth of Obama himself. Rather than deal with reality, these people choose to believe what any rational person easily recognizes to be untrue. I just don't see this ending well.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
It wasn't congress' creation, and I don't see how it working as written would destroy it. I'm not sure why so many people think people are elected to congress to throw feces at the wall and see what sticks then fix the problems with the legislation that they passed immediately after. The passage was written the way it was for a reason, it had to be edited after the fact because it didn't work as intended.

On the topic of intentions, AT&T "intended" for their website to be secure when it had... no security what-so-ever. So when weev programmatically iterated through a bunch of iDevice registrations and embarrassed them... this is how it turned out for weev. Luckily for weev, they did it wrong and his conviction was overturned. Now, if we add an "intentions exemption" for every act of foolishness perpetrated by an agent of government it won't end well. That's what the rule of law is about, it used to be a big deal.



State means state, glad we could work that out.

Someone better tell Scalia in his first ACA dissent that. You know, before it became convenient to pretend otherwise. You also might want to tell about 70% of the current SCOTUS that because they felt it was a pretty clear case the other way. Let me guess though, you're playing it straight and they are all hacks. Some people... Haha.

Please take my suggestion and stop trolling long enough to at least read the opinion.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
*SIGH*

As expected, you completely missed the point - that courts *had to* determine the intent of the law, because it was not spelled out properly.

I guess that's what happens when you get industries to write your laws instead of the people that are elected to do so.

This is why I can have 0 respect for most Republicans/Conservatives. It's like you guys try so hard to troll everyone you've trolled yourselves into believing in some alternate reality.

We all lived through the enactment of ObamaCare. There is not one legislature for or against it that believed the subsidies were just for the states.

There is not any literature that says that the subsidies were meant solely for the states.

The only thing even remotely close is Gruber's words taken out of context.

SO, for you to say otherwise is either stupidity or intellectual dishonesty.
 
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