SCOTUS rules: gay marriage approved

[Zorba]

And just how would your "standardized contract" require the hospital, state tax authorities or the IRS, among numerous other similar entities, to honor its terms when they aren't even parties to the contract (ignoring, for the sake of argument, all the special legal rules that apply to public entities that are parties to contracts)?

In many states you can have common law marriage with no contract/license at all. It isn't like the hospital asks for your marriage license.

As far as I can tell the actual marriage license isn't used for a whole hell of a lot, except maybe so a PI can find out if you have multiple wives. People also get married internationally all the time and the government figures out how to recognize their marriage even though they don't have a state issued license.

Not saying the government should get out of the marriage business, I just don't really think a state issued license is really needed either. Especially if people are going to be shitheads about it. There is also no reason someone couldn't just self report the marriage and send a copy of the contract for the states records.

 

[shira]

In many states you can have common law marriage with no contract/license at all. It isn't like the hospital asks for your marriage license.

As far as I can tell the actual marriage license isn't used for a whole hell of a lot, except maybe so a PI can find out if you have multiple wives. People also get married internationally all the time and the government figures out how to recognize their marriage even though they don't have a state issued license.

Not saying the government should get out of the marriage business, I just don't really think a state issued license is really needed either. Especially if people are going to be shitheads about it. There is also no reason someone couldn't just self report the marriage and send a copy of the contract for the states records.

Government benefits can be difficult to obtain without an official marriage license. For example, spousal SS benefits.

 

[Zorkorist]

If I might happen to have more and bigger guns than you, what keeps me from taking your house?
Oh yeah, you love government then, don't you?

No, just equally entitled, under the law, just like your George Washington (Socialist/Communist) quote.

-John

 

[Vic]

Good for you.

Shouldn't I be in the same place, with your miraculous Government oversight?

No. The oceans are failing, kids are born with $60,000 in debt, Religious fanatics are blowing up buildings.

Government is great?

-John

Who is it that's supposed to be stopping these buildings from getting blown up?

 

[Zorba]

The legal system is already in place. An example I gave is in the states authority/involvement over construction contracts. A simple law could be written in a few days that says "Standard Marriage Contract 1-A EZ is now recognized as an official marriage contract if it is witnessed and presented to the state blah blah blah." It doesn't have to be complicated.

Exactly.

Maybe if people actually read the contract they'd think twice about jumping into a marriage that is certain to fail.

Not saying all marriage are certain to fail, but a lot of them are and some people rush into them head on with no thought of the consequences.

 

[Vic]

No, just equally entitled, under the law, just like your George Washington (Socialist/Communist) quote.

-John

Apparently it's a Mad Dog 20/20 night. Don't blame me for the hangover in the morning.

 

[Zorkorist]

Who is it that's supposed to be stopping these buildings from getting blown up?

Who will prevent the oceans from failing?

-John

 

[Mike64]

It wouldn't be much different than now. The state recognizing the contract as valid leads to other entities recognizing it as well. As far as I know there are other ways besides marriage for hospitals and taxation to accept a persons rights. There is no contract between a parent and child yet a hospital by law accepts certain truths. Unmarried people can appoint, through a contract, other family members as decision makers.

Hospitals accept certain traditional legal concepts, like those that make parents the legal guardians of their minor children (unless otherwise determined by the state), not abstract "truths."
And fwiw, I'm not sure that in all US jurisdictions, hospitals would be required to legally accept even the express written wishes of a patient, much less those of an incapacitated patient who has not previously expressed those wishes in writing. Unmarried people can appoint non-family members as decision-makers, but the legal system (ie, the state) determines the validity of those appointments, etc. Marriage as it currently exists as a matter civil (rather than religious) law is already basically just a "standardized contract" that incorporates all those (and many more) legal rights and obligations into a few short, sweet paragraphs...

 

[nickqt]

Good for you.

Shouldn't I be in the same place, with your miraculous Government oversight?

No. The oceans are failing, kids are born with $60,000 in debt, Religious fanatics are blowing up buildings.

Government is great?

-John

Yes, big bad gub'mint debt that. Just as relevant to your life as the boogieman is to children.

Hint: most US debt is owed to, wait for it...US citizens who agreed to loan the US gub'mint money.

Right now, people are literally paying the US government to hold their money for them because of the effective negative interest rate.

A country that wanted to invest in its future would be borrowing money from its citizens and others right now when it will effectively pay nothing to borrow that money, but of course we can't do that, because people think that the government, with fiat currency and thousands of ICBMs tipped with nuclear warheads, has to budget like an individual household. Lol.

So, we continue to not invest in our own country, because the boogieman is gonna get us or something.

Also: Benghazi.

 

[Zorba]

Government benefits can be difficult to obtain without an official marriage license. For example, spousal SS benefits.

I guess that is probably true. I am guessing you have to provide it to them though, which wouldn't be any different than you providing them with a copy of a standard contract.

Really I don't care, I was just agreeing with Humpy that it could be done relatively easily. And it would remove some power from worthless bureaucrats like county clerks.

 

[nickqt]

I guess that is probably true. I am guessing you have to provide it to them though, which wouldn't be any different than you providing them with a copy of a standard contract.

Really I don't care, I was just agreeing with Humpy that it could be done relatively easily. And it would remove some power from worthless bureaucrats like county clerks.

County clerks do a lot more than issue marriage certificates.

This whole first-world, civilization thing is actually administrated by the bureaucrats. I know bureaucrat hate is almost as popular as lawyer hate, but it's the truth.

The bureaucrats don't write the shitty laws and they don't choose how much money is allocated to their particular bureaucracy. The politicians who receive b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶ campaign contributions do. They're also the ones who mandate the marriage licenses and the bureaucracy in the first place.

 

[Zorkorist]

Yes, big bad gub'mint debt that. Just as relevant to your life as the boogieman is to children.

Hint: most US debt is owed to, wait for it...US citizens who agreed to loan the US gub'mint money.

Right now, people are literally paying the US government to hold their money for them because of the effective negative interest rate.

A country that wanted to invest in its future would be borrowing money from its citizens and others right now when it will effectively pay nothing to borrow that money, but of course we can't do that, because people think that the government, with fiat currency and thousands of ICBMs tipped with nuclear warheads, has to budget like an individual household. Lol.

So, we continue to not invest in our own country, because the boogieman is gonna get us or something.

Also: Benghazi.

LOL, you are trying to tell me I owe myself $60,000?

-John

 

[DrDoug]

Apparently it's a Mad Dog 20/20 night. Don't blame me for the hangover in the morning.

I think he's drinking Sterno...lol

 

[Humpy]

Hospitals accept certain traditional legal concepts, like those that make parents the legal guardians of their minor children (unless otherwise determined by the state), not abstract "truths."

Don't put too much weight on any specific words I used. I was just trying to get a general point across and couldn't think of anything better.

And fwiw, I'm not sure that in all US jurisdictions, hospitals would be required to legally accept even the express written wishes of a patient, much less those of an incapacitated patient who has not previously expressed those wishes in writing. Unmarried people can appoint non-family members as decision-makers, but the legal system (ie, the state) determines the validity of those appointments, etc. Marriage as it currently exists as a matter civil (rather than religious) law is already basically just a "standardized contract" that incorporates all those (and many more) legal rights and obligations into a few short, sweet paragraphs...

Except for some reason we apparently have to seek permission from the state before we can make the agreement with another person(s). Prior approval isn't necessary for marriage agreements/law to function.

 

[MrSquished]

County clerks do a lot more than issue marriage certificates.

Clearly. They act like religious fundamentalists when given the chance to shine.

 

[Zorkorist]

Yes, big bad gub'mint debt that. Just as relevant to your life as the boogieman is to children.

Hint: most US debt is owed to, wait for it...US citizens who agreed to loan the US gub'mint money.

Right now, people are literally paying the US government to hold their money for them because of the effective negative interest rate.

A country that wanted to invest in its future would be borrowing money from its citizens and others right now when it will effectively pay nothing to borrow that money, but of course we can't do that, because people think that the government, with fiat currency and thousands of ICBMs tipped with nuclear warheads, has to budget like an individual household. Lol.

So, we continue to not invest in our own country, because the boogieman is gonna get us or something.

Also: Benghazi.

The national debt equates to $44,900 per person U.S. population, or $91,500 per member of the U.S. working population,[109] as of December 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States

-John

 

[Mike64]

In many states you can have common law marriage with no contract/license at all.

Common-law marriage is actually more complicated than that, it's not simply another form of regular marriage. As a legal concept it only applies in some situations. Common law marriage does not give the parties to it the full set of rights and obligations a regularly solemnized marriage does. And for what it's worth, it's recognized by fewer and fewer states as time goes on. Mostly because it is legally rather a messy set of concepts - not the nice, (comparatively) neat legal package that regular marriage is.

ETA: And fwiw, even common-law marriage involves a contract, though one implied by law, rather than one expressly entered by the parties.

As far as I can tell the actual marriage license isn't used for a whole hell of a lot

That's like saying the results of your road test aren't used for a whole lot. And for that matter they aren't. Just to establish that little thing called your "legal fitness under existing law to receive a driver's license." Same thing with a marriage license.

People also get married internationally all the time and the government figures out how to recognize their marriage even though they don't have a state issued license.

As a matter of legal convenience and in the interest of friendly international relations, sure, but they don't really "figure out" anything. they simply treat a marriage considered legal in the jurisdiction in which it was performed as if it had been performed here (as long as the marriage doesn't otherwise contravene US/state law or public policy.) US/state laws do not recognize the marriages between a man and wives other than the first one, even if they're legal in Saudi Arabia, for example, or those involving children under US ages of consent, even if they're legal in Bangladesh. (And if the question of the existence or legality of the foreign marriage arises, it has to be proved with documents and all sorts of fancy attestations and official seals and stuff - no one accepts just the word of one or both parties that the marriage exists.)

Moreover, nor do US laws grant the parties to foreign marriages the rights/obligations they would have under the law of the jurisdiction in which the marriage was performed, they grant them the rights/obligations that exist under US laws.

 

[Humpy]

County clerks do a lot more than issue marriage certificates.

This whole first-world, civilization thing is actually administrated by the bureaucrats. I know bureaucrat hate is almost as popular as lawyer hate, but it's the truth.

The bureaucrats don't write the shitty laws and they don't choose how much money is allocated to their particular bureaucracy. The politicians who receive b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶ campaign contributions do. They're also the ones who mandate the marriage licenses and the bureaucracy in the first place.

:| Yeah, I agree we're pretty much stuck with it all.

 

[Vic]

LOL, you are trying to tell me I owe myself $60,000?

-John

No, but OTOH government debt is $60k (using your figure) in taxes that you haven't yet had to pay.

 

[nickqt]

The national debt equates to $44,900 per person U.S. population, or $91,500 per member of the U.S. working population,[109] as of December 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States

-John

Yes, I'm sure you're making monthly payments as we speak, just like everyone else.


Boogieman is gonna get ya!

 

[Zorkorist]

:| Yeah, I agree we're pretty much stuck with it all.

You vote for more Government, you get, more Government.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Yes, I'm sure you're making monthly payments as we speak, just like everyone else.


Boogieman is gonna get ya!

I am making monthly payments, I have a job.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

No, but OTOH government debt is $60k (using your figure) in taxes that you haven't yet had to pay.

I've paid it. Your kids, however...

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Keep in mind, your kids are going to live in a world of Communist, Socialist, Government elite. They will determine how your kids dress, what they eat, and whether or not they get chocolate today.

-John

 

[nickqt]

Clearly. They act like religious fundamentalists when given the chance to shine.

Of course by "they", you mean one holdout who is being made an example of in Kentucky.

The first thing we do, let's kill all the l̶a̶w̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ bureaucrats.

I've paid it. Your kids, however...

-John

Yes, we must think of the children.

Better that we worry about an imaginary debt that no one pays, including you, than invest in a country to bring us up to late 20th century infrastructure standards.

Mostly because freedom, but also Benghazi.