SCSI controller/Hard Drive questions

[SlickVic]

Hi Everyone,

Considering going to SCSI (non-RAID) for my home computer vs IDE (see my "Systems" below). Running XP Pro SP1. I have some general and technical questions about SCSI controllers and HD's. Please, be gentle

1) Is it really worth it? I do mostly gaming (UT, UT2003, Serious SAM, NOLF2), MS Ofiice apps, Photoshop, multitasking, and internet.

2) What is the best bang for the buck for controllers, and what brand? I know Adaptec is pretty good, but how about LSI Logic and Tekram?

3) Is there much difference, performance-wise, between Ultra160 and Ultra320 controllers?

4) Why are some Ultra160 hard drives 68 Pin and some 80 Pin? Example here. The transfer rate is the same (160MB/Sec), so why the different pin configuration?

5) Referencing #4 above, if you have a 68 Pin card and a 80 Pin HD (or vice-versa, I suppose), can you (should you) use an adapter without a decrease in performance?

6) What RPM? Is there a big difference between 10K and 15K, performance-wise? Noise is not an issue.

7) Could you (not that I would) run a 68 Pin Ultra 2 SCSI (80 MB/sec, i.e. slower, I presume) 10K drive on a 68 Pin Ultra160 controller? What would be the perfomance degradation vs. a 160MB/Sec HD?

8) Given a budget of $200, which combo of controller/HD (~18GB maximum) would you use? I see some good deals on the forums for both.

There is a LSI Logic ULTRA 160 SCSI Host Adapter PCI Card, 68-pin (Model#: LSIU160) for $68 at Newegg...any good?


I know I asked a lot of questions, but it's pretty confusing, to me at least

Any input would be appreciated, especially users of SCSI controllers/HD's.

Thanks for reading...I appreciate it.

 

[LiLithTecH]

1) Is it really worth it? I do mostly gaming (UT, UT2003, Serious SAM, NOLF2), MS Ofiice apps, Photoshop, multitasking, and internet.

NO. There would not be a large performance gain vs cost.


2) What is the best bang for the buck for controllers, and what brand? I know Adaptec is pretty good, but how about LSI Logic and Tekram?

It would be more up to your budget and application. The above brands are of good quality.


3) Is there much difference, performance-wise, between Ultra160 and Ultra320 controllers?

Yes. ULTRA 320 is a DUAL CHANNEL controller, allowing faster I/O, more devices.


4) Why are some Ultra160 hard drives 68 Pin and some 80 Pin? Example here. The transfer rate is the same (160MB/Sec), so why the different pin configuration?

68 pin drives are used in 16bit drives (Ultra SCSI-2, Ultra-Wide SCSI-2, SCSI-3 drives).
80 pin drives are Low Voltage Differential Ultra SCSI-2 (16bit) drives allowing longer cable lengths (up to 12 meters)


5) Referencing #4 above, if you have a 68 Pin card and a 80 Pin HD (or vice-versa, I suppose), can you (should you) use an adapter without a decrease in performance?

It is dependant on the controller in use. The convertors do not as a rule decrease performance.


6) What RPM? Is there a big difference between 10K and 15K, performance-wise? Noise is not an issue.

This is where the performance (and price) come into play. 15k is the choice for video/mutlimedia, with 10k
drives used generally for top Server performance (and video/multimedia).


7) Could you (not that I would) run a 68 Pin Ultra 2 SCSI (80 MB/sec, i.e. slower, I presume) 10K drive on a 68 Pin Ultra160 controller? What would be the perfomance degradation vs. a 160MB/Sec HD?

The drive is the limiting factor. It will run at its rated performance level.


8) Given a budget of $200, which combo of controller/HD (~18GB maximum) would you use? I see some good deals on the forums for both.

If its just for the above applications, save the $200 investment and put it towards some other component.
You probably will not see a that big of a perfomance improvement.


There is a LSI Logic ULTRA 160 SCSI Host Adapter PCI Card, 68-pin (Model#: LSIU160) for $68 at Newegg...any good?

If it fits your budget, quality wise the card is good (it is made by MYLEX).


Tried to keep it brief. Just my 2cents worth.

 

[SlickVic]

Thanks for the reply!!!

Exactly what I wanted...brief and to the point...I really appreciate your response...owe ya' one

I'll take your advice and use the $$ for something else...Radeon 9700 Pro...mmmm

Vic

 

[Zepper]

Originally posted by: SlickVic
Hi Everyone,

Considering going to SCSI (non-RAID) for my home computer vs IDE (see my "Systems" below). Running XP Pro SP1. I have some general and technical questions about SCSI controllers and HD's. Please, be gentle

1) Is it really worth it? I do mostly gaming (UT, UT2003, Serious SAM, NOLF2), MS Ofiice apps, Photoshop, multitasking, and internet.

Probably not, but if the cost isn't a real issue for you, why not have the best?

2) What is the best bang for the buck for controllers, and what brand? I know Adaptec is pretty good, but how about LSI Logic and Tekram?

Adaptec is probably the most well known, but it's a Johnny-come-lately when compared to LSI which is the current holder of a line that started with NCR -> Symbios -> LSI. Tekram also mostly uses Symbios chipsets, so the LSI and Tekram are very similar. I have used both Adaptec (2940UW) and Tekram (DC-390F and my current DC-390U2W). The Tekram gets through its startup routine faster than the Adaptec. All three brands are supported by or for just about every OS under the sun. Be sure to check out Hypermicro for your SCSI shopping. ATers have been able to get a free LSI U160 single channel host adapter free with the purchase of an IBM 15k drive. Don't know if the offer is still valid. Not to brag, much, but I just got my Tekram U2W off eBay, new in box, for less than what the included (super quality) cables are worth - e.g. the LVD cable is a 4-drive Amphenol with pull tabs and dust covers for each connector!!!!!!!.

3) Is there much difference, performance-wise, between Ultra160 and Ultra320 controllers?

You really need to have a 64-bit, 66MHz PCI bus to get the most from a U320 system. No consumer (or pro-sumer) level hard drive can burst data faster than 70 MB/sec, (Seagate 15k U160 is current speed champ). So you wouldn't be able to saturate a U160 adapter 'til you had more than two HDs. Most of the U160 adapters will also work best with 64/66 PCI but will work with the normal 32/33 slots too. Contrary to Lilith, Both U160 and U320 adapters are available in single (total of 15 devices)- and dual (total of 30 devices)-channel. And some also have a side spur for SE devices so that they don't slow down your LVD drives. U320 has a 32-bit data path, while all previous Wide SCSI is 16-bit.

4) Why are some Ultra160 hard drives 68 Pin and some 80 Pin? Example here. The transfer rate is the same (160MB/Sec), so why the different pin configuration?

Lilith has this one wrong too (the luster is wearing off, L. - dja have a hard night? ). 80-pin is for hot-swap drives, it's called 'SCA', they are designed to be mounted into a special carrier tray that slides it right into a backplane connector, not a cable. The SCA drives run their signals thru 68 of the pins just like all Wide SCSI drives, the rest of the pins are used to supply power (several for each voltage) edit: and setup functions (scsi address, startup delay, etc.) - there is no separate power connector on SCA drives. ALL current SCSI drives are LVD, but are ridiculously backward compatible - they can be jumpered to work with old SE (single ended) adapters like the 2940UW mentioned above. Hypermicro includes the 80-to-68 pin adapter with some of their SCA drives - a special one is needed for LVD operation and can also be gotten on eBay for $10.+sh.
. Just about every LVD SCSI drive is available in both SCA and 68-pin versions - performance is the same.

5) Referencing #4 above, if you have a 68 Pin card and a 80 Pin HD (or vice-versa, I suppose), can you (should you) use an adapter without a decrease in performance?

See above - no performance loss.

6) What RPM? Is there a big difference between 10K and 15K, performance-wise? Noise is not an issue.

Noise and transfer rate are the main differences, 15k also helps seek time (reduced latency). You will also need active cooling for 15k drives - they get WARM - a very good idea for 10k too. A case (like the Antec 10xx series) that has space(s) for fan(s) in front of the drive bays or similar is a good plan - yet more noise.

7) Could you (not that I would) run a 68 Pin Ultra 2 SCSI (80 MB/sec, i.e. slower, I presume) 10K drive on a 68 Pin Ultra160 controller? What would be the perfomance degradation vs. a 160MB/Sec HD?

All LVD drives will run at optimum performance as long as the adapter is rated equal or higher. You can mix 80/160 LVD drives no problemo. Just don't hook an older SE drive or device (e.g. scanner) to the LVD channel. Top speed for all devices then drops to 40 MB/s.

8) Given a budget of $200, which combo of controller/HD (~18GB maximum) would you use? I see some good deals on the forums for both.

You can get an 18 or 36G, 15k U160 drive and host adapter on Hypermicro for less than $200. Perhaps even better here in FS/T or on eBay (ref. my Tekram adapter mentioned above). LVD cables that look like the one that came with my Tekram are on eBay for $10. including terminator. Computer Geeks had new Hitachi 36G, 10k, U160 on special for $119+sh this week, OOS now.
. BTW, never say controller when talking SCSI - it's host adapter!

There is a LSI Logic ULTRA 160 SCSI Host Adapter PCI Card, 68-pin (Model#: LSIU160) for $68 at Newegg...any good?

It's a good card. $69. at Hypermicro and you get free ground (or equal amount off faster method) shipping if you mention www.storagereview.com (go there for tests of SCSI drives and adapters) when ordering. May still be able to get it free with drive. See my other answer.

I know I asked a lot of questions, but it's pretty confusing, to me at least

I think that covers it - go to SCSI-FAQ for lots more info and links

Any input would be appreciated, especially users of SCSI controllers/HD's.

Thanks for reading...I appreciate it.[/quote]

Accurate Answers by .bh. zepper almost everywhere...


Oh yeah, if you use SCSI for your HDs, you may be able to disable one of your on-board IDE channels to free up an IRQ - always in short supply...bh.

 

[SlickVic]

I'm completely overwhelmed by the detail and quality of the responses:Q Thanks to all who e-mailed me and replied in this thread...special thanks to LiLithTecH and Zepper. What a great forum/web site!!!

I am now SCSI-wise about HD's and controllers...er, I mean host adapters

Vic

 

[redbeard1]

5) Referencing #4 above, if you have a 68 Pin card and a 80 Pin HD (or vice-versa, I suppose), can you (should you) use an adapter without a decrease in performance?

The biggest issue with using adapters is to make sure you buy adapters that are LVD rated. Even then there is a big difference in compatibility.
Some drives will work with the cheaper LVD SCA adapters, and other will only work with more expensive versions. I have a Seagate drive that drove me nuts until I bought a quality adapter. So as long as you can get the drives to work at an minimum 80 mbs LVD connection you won't have any loss of performance.

To me the advantage for scsi is a higher degree of dependability. They have extra spare cylinders so if you do start having bad spots develop you can format them with the scsi chipset's utility, and have those spots taken from use and new ones added. For now they still have a 5 year warranty, so if they do fail you can at least get a drive rma'd.

My set up uses IDE drives to boot from, and scsi for storage. I've had games start slower from my fastest scsi drives than the ide drives. But the scsi performance was improved when I switched to a motherboard with onboard scsi. Leading me to believe that the pci scsi card is somehow a limiting factor.

 

[Zepper]

bump for edit