Seagate 3TB Drives Are Problematic

[Charlie98]

I thought I came across a thread talking about the 3Tb Seagate issue, or maybe it was in general HW but I couldn't find it.

Anway According to this site link (you might have to feed it through google translate), the 3Tb which they opened up had a poorly fitted connector which let outside unfiltered air in which might have killed the drive. Maybe it is a general issue with the 3Tb.

I thought that was a pretty interesting article... unfortunately, that has a sample size of one.

It would be neat if Backblaze would open some of their 3TBs and see if dust/dirt was present. It kind of makes sense... it has to be a colossal design or manufacturing shortcoming to have a failure rate like BB is showing.

 

[Muse]

I just told you reviews and such are useless and here you are saying thats what I will use. There are a few Forums where people post real live results and experiences. But that is no guarantee either.. We look at posts but not on the dates and go by them, without thinking the messages from 6 months ago are not valid any longer.

-SNIP-

Well, I have to go on something. Since people in the industry who know the most (e.g. Google, Amazon, etc., folks who run thousands upon thousands of HDs in their server systems) are keeping mum about which drives are problematical and which are reliable, the only info out there that might help me in making my storage purchases is more or less anecdotal. Of course, I will try to determine how timely that info is. You go out there and learn what you can. In the past I made a lot of purchasing decisions on faith, but I've been burned many times now, have a lot of scars. I have at least two large capacity drives that have failed me that I want to try to glean some data from (in USB enclosures). I'm going to try to use Linux optical media and ddrescue in that effort, something I've never done. Meantime, I have what I have, but before making further purchases I'm going (hopefully) to do some research, hopefully effectively. I'm not sure about Seagate, but for sure my WD ELEMENTS 2TB USB HDs have been a PITA. It's not like I hammer them, I don't understand it. I've had 3-4 failures.

 

[eton975]

I thought that was a pretty interesting article... unfortunately, that has a sample size of one.

It would be neat if Backblaze would open some of their 3TBs and see if dust/dirt was present. It kind of makes sense... it has to be a colossal design or manufacturing shortcoming to have a failure rate like BB is showing.

Actually, already contacted one of the reps. Ops is on holiday though, so we'll have to wait to see if anything comes out of it.

I thought I came across a thread talking about the 3Tb Seagate issue, or maybe it was in general HW but I couldn't find it.

This thread?

 

[bononos]

Actually, already contacted one of the reps. Ops is on holiday though, so we'll have to wait to see if anything comes out of it.

This thread?

Sounds like they don't want to raise more hackles from Seagate.

And yes, its that thread titled "Russian website speculates on why the ST3000DM001 fails so much". I should've searched the entire post instead of just the titles.

 

[AlienTech]

You can swap out circuit boards on matching drives, if that's the problem. No one can open up a drive and have it survive without a sterile environment.

That wont work since you need to also copy the prom data which stores the bad sector data and other information about the platters and heads. I think it has been this way since SATA1 days.. I know it did not work even with the older drives just before SATA came to market. One of the main failures is the circuit board shorting the protection circuit and if you send in your old circuit board they will copy the prom data and send you a new circuit board which fixes most drive failures.

 

[AlienTech]

Well, I have to go on something.

Which is why I decided to spend more and get hitachi or toshiba drives. Since I know they dont have 20 different models and all their models are alike AKA seagate has this thing about ST2000DL001 ST2000DL002 ST2000DL003
etc.. all different drives with different specs but on amazon they are all 2TB drives and you can get any one with no choice... The numbering is not as bad as the ST2000DM001 or ST3000DM001 which only changes specs with the firmware..

But I also noticed maxtor decided to change mathematics and say 1,000,000 is 1 MB and seagate followed and an year later so did everyone else. So since seagate and WDC now does it I think others will also follow.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I just opened up my failed 3TB to investigate the dust idea from the russian site.
I can confirm some dust specs on the platter. The internal filter is perfectly clean, so it's not extensive.
However dust doesn't appear to be getting in at the same spot as the russians observed.
Also I noticed pretty extensive oxidation/corrosion on the pcb connections.

 

[eton975]

I just opened up my failed 3TB to investigate the dust idea from the russian site.
I can confirm some dust specs on the platter. The internal filter is perfectly clean, so it's not extensive.
However dust doesn't appear to be getting in at the same spot as the russians observed.
Also I noticed pretty extensive oxidation/corrosion on the pcb connections.

Do you have any idea where the dust might have gotten in this time?

Question: Do you have any of the 2TB drives? (ST2000DM001)? Are they all fine?

 

[AlienTech]

Why do the platters look like there was dried liquid on them? Or is that dust spots? Never seen a platter like that before and i seen a lot of platters. even when you run them without the covers they dont get that dirty. Not a way for them to last but this looks really bad.. Like they used platters that were contaminated to begin with. I just cant see any way even with an open port for it to get that contaminated. Its a small leak, not really open to the environment.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Those pictures are horrible and make me think that the drive was not assembled in a clean room. Obviously moisture entered during the assembly process which allowed for the rusting to occur.

 

[AlienTech]

Those pictures are horrible and make me think that the drive was not assembled in a clean room. Obviously moisture entered during the assembly process which allowed for the rusting to occur.

A while ago, I had a coworker who worked for IBM before and on his visit to Taiwan he visited some shops, in one a one eyed guy with a limp was carrying a circuit board with components to a lead bath to like mount the devices.. by hand.. so he dont have to solder each one.

In another he saw a room full of ladies with a rag and bucket of oil, they dipped the rag in the oil and wiped the hard drive platters so the heads dont crash when you use them..

He said he felt it was like in some weird scifi futuristic movie scene..

 

[Rebel44]

I had 4 of those 3TB drives and all of them died in under 12 months. Since than, I am buying WD HDDs.

 

[Muse]

As I said, I bought 3 of the Seagate ST3000DM001 HDs at Costco May 2014. I already received RMA for one, and wasn't sure which of 2 of the original drives I bought (the 3rd was off site, basically unused except having written maybe 180GB data to it) was worse. The one I bitched about just failed the Write Zeros function in WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics this morning (I had a WD drive attached, allowing me to use it). I could see no Seatools write zero function, so used WD's. It took around 40 hours, I'm guessing, but at the tail end, seemingly in the last 5-10 minutes or so a message came up that it failed to write zeros to such and such sector, asking me if I want to continue. I clicked continue and it completed in a few minutes, the test result being FAIL. WDDLDIAG shows S.M.A.R.T. info for the drive as FAIL. Crystaldiskinfo says it's good. Well, I figure that since the write zeros function almost completed it did essentially write zeros to 99.9% of the HD and I shouldn't concern myself with the failure and just send it to Seagate. Whatcha think?

 

[Muse]

I had 4 of those 3TB drives and all of them died in under 12 months. Since than, I am buying WD HDDs.

As I have said, I've had 3-4 WD ELEMENTS 2TB HDs fail on me. They had 1 year warranty, the Seagates have 2 years. I was SOL on all but one of the WD failures. I still have two of them awaiting attempts to retrieve the data using ddrescue.

I have had very good luck indeed with internal HDs, but my current desktop can't accommodate anything larger than 500GB and it does a super shitty job handling that. I need a new mobo! When I get one I figure I'll try to rely more on internal storage, however obviously for backup purposes you need something portable. Well, there's the cloud, but I haven't done any cloud storage and besides, some of my data (not the most critical), is substantial. I figure multiple off site portable storage (i.e. two places) is the way to go for some real data security.

 

[eton975]

The rep finally got back to me.

Looks like it was a one-off after all.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Wow that response surely inspires confidence with their products. I'd already moved back to wd blacks for storage and I think that I'll stick with them until something better comes along.

 

[KentState]

I've had 7-8 of these die on me. As they die off, I've replaced them with WD Red drives which have not had any issues.

 

[eton975]

Wow that response surely inspires confidence with their products. I'd already moved back to wd blacks for storage and I think that I'll stick with them until something better comes along.

Well, Backblaze doesn't care too much about failure rates, as long as the savings by buying cheap crap like the 3TB Seagates outweighs the cost of replacement when said cheap crap fails. If it comes out cheaper than a higher-quality drive in the end, you go for the cheap crap.

You can get a 3TB Seagate for $90, while a 3TB WD Red costs $119.

If, say, the failure rate per year of the Red is 5% while the Seagate is 10% (obviously that's not true and Seagate's failure rate was much higher) you're spending $99 per Seagate (bc 10% fail and you need to buy a whole new drive), and $125 per Red. Obviously, you'll go for the Seagate drive.

 

[eton975]

Wow that response surely inspires confidence with their products. I'd already moved back to wd blacks for storage and I think that I'll stick with them until something better comes along.

BTW, I've heard good things about some of the Toshiba drives. Just as cheap as the Seagates, but I've heard much more good things about them.

 

[Annisman*]

I have purchased five Seagate 3TB drives for my HTPC and...counting my blessings here, none of them have crapped out yet...

 

[futurefields]

i have a feeling all 3tb drives using more than 4 platters have a problem regardless of mfr

i have a western digital black 3tb drive and this thing has like 5 or 6 platters in it I think

it has a 5 year warranty but ill be shocked if it lasts that long

 

[MongGrel]

But, but, but, Seagates are Enterprise drives.

I'll just stop there...

 

[MongGrel]

Still have 4 WD RE3's 1 TB's have been running probably 6 years at least now in a RAID array.

 

[MongGrel]

Bit small these days, but they still sell em it looks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136313

 

[AlienTech]

But, but, but, Seagates are Enterprise drives.

I'll just stop there...

I think you mean they are enterprise designs..

Kind of like using a 3d printer to print up a gun.. It will work at least once.. Maybe twice if you still have your face.. But you cant say it is not going to blow up sooner or later.. The only quesiton would be how soon is too soon..

Next up would be seagate 3d printed hard drives.. They are printing up media storage on paper.. Instead of using expensive equipment to create platters, they can print them on.