Seagate produces Samsung HHD ?

[William Gaatjes]

Hello everybody,

I once bought a SAMSUNG Spinpoint SP1614N. And this HDD is silent,fast and still working.

But it is only 160GB and not SATA.
I am planning to buy this model from SAMSUNG : ST1000DM005
A 1TB HDD, 32MB cache with a SATA/300 connection.

This disc is from the spinpoint barracuda series.
I had not so good experience with seagate and i really want a quiet HDD that does not vibrate. Seek noise i am fine with, i like to hear when my HDD is being accessed. But when the pc is idle, it must be quiet. And with my old SP1614N this is the case. The SP1614N is absolutely quiet and does not vibrate.

Does Seagate make the HDD now for SAMSUNG or is making HDD a joint venture for both companies ?

And how is the quality and noise for the ST1000DM005 ?
Anybody has experience or a review ?

 

[exdeath]

Why are you wanting to buy a HDD? Go find a cassette deck too while you're at it.

Take advantage of the fact that you are used to 160GB and get a 256GB SSD. You can find a couple in the $200 range. More space, more speed, and quiet. Win/win/win.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Blah blah blah

Holy hell, here you are still bashing mechanical HDDs at every possible turn. You've been doing this for how long now? Six months? A year? Did a HDD touch you or are you simply nuts? Do you ever actually contribute anything to this forum? The OP is looking at 1TB capacities. SSDs are NOT a pragmatic alternative to HDDs at higher capacities like that, at least not in single disk/lowest cost solutions.

OP, yes, newer HDDs (i.e. the ones in retail channels now) that are labeled Samsung are now manufactured by Seagate. You'll be getting Seagate quality and Seagate warranties. I'm sticking with Western Digital Blacks for the time being because I expect 1TB+ HDDs to be in service for 3+ years, they're quiet, they're quick, and IME they're reliable. If I'm buying cheaper drives for systems I sell, then I go with WD Blues.

 

[Blain]

Holy hell, here you are still bashing mechanical HDDs at every possible turn.

Take a breath and relax... That's just the way exdeath rolls.

 

[KeithP]

Does Seagate make the HDD now for SAMSUNG or is making HDD a joint venture for both companies?

http://www.techpowerup.com/157124/S...isition-of-Samsung-s-Hard-Drive-Business.html

-KeithP

 

[Pandamonium]

Holy hell, here you are still bashing mechanical HDDs at every possible turn. [...] - snip -

exdeath's got a very solid point. The OP is looking to replace a 160GB disk, more than likely an OS disk. There are a lot of assumptions either way, but 1TB-2TB is roughly the current sweet spot for capacity vs value. It's not too far fetched to reason that the OP simply wants a new OS drive and 1TB happens to be the capacity he's going with.

OP, if you are simply looking to replace the 160GB Samsung and you're using that Samsung as an OS drive, you should give serious consideration to SSDs. The main advantage of a HDD over a SSD is capacity, so if that extra 800GB isn't really going to be used, now is an excellent time to try out an SSD.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Thank you all for the replies.
I remembered there was something about Samsung and the HDD deivision.
But was a bit lazy to look it up.

The website from KeithP explains it :

Seagate Finalizes the Acquisition of Samsung's Hard Drive Business
Seagate Technology has today announced that it completed the acquisition of Samsung Electronics' hard drive unit. Worth $1.4 billion, this deal covers the assets, infrastructure and employees of Samsung's HDD business and is supposed to boost Seagate's production capacity, R&D strength and customer access in China, Southeast Asia, Brazil, Germany and the Russian Federation.

As part of the agreement, Seagate will be supplying HDDs for Samsung PCs, notebooks and consumer electronics devices, while the South Korean giant will provide Seagate with semiconductor products needed for enterprise solid state drives (SSDs), solid-state hybrid drives and other products. Moreover, the two companies have signed an extended patent cross-license agreement, and have agreed to collaborate on the development of enterprise storage solutions.
"Together, Seagate and Samsung have aligned our current and future product development efforts and roadmaps in order to accelerate time-to-market efficiency for new products and position us to better address the increasing demands for storage," said Steve Luczo, Seagate chairman, president and CEO. "It is an exciting time in the industry with rapidly evolving opportunities in many markets including mobile computing, cloud computing, and solid state storage."

To ensure a smooth transition, Seagate is going to continue selling certain HDDs under the Samsung brand name for 12 months. Seagate didn't say anything but it's probable the Samsung-branded drives will include a warranty period comparable to that of the latest Barracudas.

SSD
Since reliability of my pc system is crucial, SSD are at the moment not an option untill i have researched SSD quality and SSD use in combination with windows. I first must find out how to tell windows (will be windows 7) to not use the SSD for any kind of temporary use.
Also, it is for a new system. I am planning to use SSD. But first i want to make sure that the SSD is used as a read only memory by windows 7 and programs. And that is something i am not sure windows 7 is capable of.

I do remember and even use the BARTPE windows cd's. These are pre environment cd's where a normal but modified windowsXP installation runs from a cd and uses a ramdisk to store tempfiles and the registry.
Great to repair and get crashed systems working again and to create backup images.
This is the website for those interested :
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

My wishlist for windows 7.
I want that SSD to be a read only memory.
Use 1GB RAM of system ram as a ramdisk for temporary files.
Use the HDD for general storage, large temp files and large page files.

IMHO:
Now there is so much ram memory available, that temp files should be placed in a ramdisk when not to large. When no longer needed, free up the memory.
SSD are indeed fast compared to HDD, but are nothing compared to system ram.

I do not know if windows 7 already uses these kinds of features. If it is the case. Then i am very happy. If it is not the case, microsoft should be so wise to do some modifications under the hood. Having 4GB or more and only using 1GB is a waste. When installing or anything else, ramdisks are key.
SSD cannot beat system ram.

 

[npaladin-2000]

SSD
Since reliability of my pc system is crucial, SSD are at the moment not an option untill i have researched SSD quality and SSD use in combination with windows. I first must find out how to tell windows (will be windows 7) to not use the SSD for any kind of temporary use.

Also, it is for a new system. I am planning to use SSD. But first i want to make sure that the SSD is used as a read only memory by windows 7 and programs.

Uhhh, why??? SSDs are quite reliable, and are even used in enterprise storage arrays. It's not like you can operate without a backup (then again, no one can) but they're reliable enough to house mission critical databases and applications.

Besides which, Windows needs to be able to install patches and updates to itself on the SSD.

My wishlist for windows 7.
I want that SSD to be a read only memory.
Use 1GB RAM of system ram as a ramdisk for temporary files.
Use the HDD for general storage, large temp files and large page files.

IMHO:
Now there is so much ram memory available, that temp files should be placed in a ramdisk when not to large. When no longer needed, free up the memory.
SSD are indeed fast compared to HDD, but are nothing compared to system ram.

I do not know if windows 7 already uses these kinds of features. If it is the case. Then i am very happy. If it is not the case, microsoft should be so wise to do some modifications under the hood. Having 4GB or more and only using 1GB is a waste. When installing or anything else, ramdisks are key.
SSD cannot beat system ram.

Systems don't have all that much RAM. Most are limited to 8 or 16 GB, and you can use up 8 GB way too easily, leaving not enough RAM for a ramdisk. Not to mention a ramdisk isn't permanent storage. On top of that, you want any overflow from the RAM to go to the pagefile...but you want the pagefile to reside in RAM? That makes no sense.

You can install Windows 7 to an SSD, as well as your main programs. You can re-direct your libraries (My Documents, My Pictures, etc) to your larger HDD. Frankly you WANT your pagefile and temp files on the SSD, because it's the fastest place for them. If you have enough RAM the pagefile won't be used much anyway.

 

[hasu]

There is a good deal right now in Newegg - $99.99 for 2T Samsung (HD204UI). But I just learned that it is manufactured by Seagate. If you compare user reviews in Newegg, Samsung's single star rating is 10% while Seagate's single star rating is 20%. That means Samsung quality is going to plummet. Why is Samsung risking their reputation?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Uhhh, why??? SSDs are quite reliable, and are even used in enterprise storage arrays. It's not like you can operate without a backup (then again, no one can) but they're reliable enough to house mission critical databases and applications.

Besides which, Windows needs to be able to install patches and updates to itself on the SSD.



Systems don't have all that much RAM. Most are limited to 8 or 16 GB, and you can use up 8 GB way too easily, leaving not enough RAM for a ramdisk. Not to mention a ramdisk isn't permanent storage. On top of that, you want any overflow from the RAM to go to the pagefile...but you want the pagefile to reside in RAM? That makes no sense.

You can install Windows 7 to an SSD, as well as your main programs. You can re-direct your libraries (My Documents, My Pictures, etc) to your larger HDD. Frankly you WANT your pagefile and temp files on the SSD, because it's the fastest place for them. If you have enough RAM the pagefile won't be used much anyway.

This all i mentioned in my post before. Temp install files or just temp files are much better of in a RAM disk. But i deliberately did not mention pagefile. Since as you indeed also wrote that page files are parts of system memory swapped to a file, there is no use to copy these to a ramdisk.

Of course there will always be data written to the SSD. There is a running copy of the registry present in system memory if i remember correctly. Access to the registry is usually read or write. And since the registry will remain on the SSD, there will be enough reading and writing to the SSD.
But i want to keep it at a minimum.


I wonder what kind of programs you run. All programs i use do not require more then 1GB even when running a lot of programs at the same time.
And there is no swapping of pagefiles to my HDD either.
With 4GB i would not even notice a ramdisk. Memory of 8GB to 16GB i could never fill up. I do not have the habit of keep everything running that i do not have a need for. Perhaps that is the reason.

Is windows 7 that bloated and slow ?
It seems then that i must do some research on how to clean up windows 7. I did the same for my windowsxp installation. It is fast and very stable.

 

[William Gaatjes]

There is a good deal right now in Newegg - $99.99 for 2T Samsung (HD204UI). But I just learned that it is manufactured by Seagate. If you compare user reviews in Newegg, Samsung's single star rating is 10% while Seagate's single star rating is 20%. That means Samsung quality is going to plummet. Why is Samsung risking their reputation?

I do not know why Samsung would risk their reputation. I bought my samsung disk SP1614N after doing extensive research and reading reviews from users from silent pc forums. They mentioned the SP1614N at the time was one of the fastest, quiet and reliable disks around.
I can state that that is indeed the case. I took some precautions for cooling, the HDD has some airflow running underneath it and i had put thermal paste between the 3,5 inch frame of my pc case and the HDD. The HDD is not hang up between elastics or rubber. It is mounted directly to into the 3,5 inch HDD frame with screws.
The HDD never reaches temperatures higher than 35 degrees Celcius. Low temperatures are important for a happy HDD.

But to be honest, if seagate produces 100 million HDDs and only a few thousand fail...

 

[npaladin-2000]

This all i mentioned in my post before. Temp install files or just temp files are much better of in a RAM disk. But i deliberately did not mention pagefile. Since as you indeed also wrote that page files are parts of system memory swapped to a file, there is no use to copy these to a ramdisk.

Of course there will always be data written to the SSD. There is a running copy of the registry present in system memory if i remember correctly. Access to the registry is usually read or write. And since the registry will remain on the SSD, there will be enough reading and writing to the SSD.
But i want to keep it at a minimum.


I wonder what kind of programs you run. All programs i use do not require more then 1GB even when running a lot of programs at the same time.
And there is no swapping of pagefiles to my HDD either.
With 4GB i would not even notice a ramdisk. Memory of 8GB to 16GB i could never fill up. I do not have the habit of keep everything running that i do not have a need for. Perhaps that is the reason.

Is windows 7 that bloated and slow ?
It seems then that i must do some research on how to clean up windows 7. I did the same for my windowsxp installation. It is fast and very stable.

I run Outlook on my enterprise mailbox, VM VirtualBox, vSphere client, Visual Studio, SQL Server Management Studio, Eclipse, MMC with about 10 modules loaded to manage my domain, and many other things that can easily chew up a gig or more. Heck, run enough tabs and FIREFOX will chew up more than a gig...or Chrome, or even IE. Java as well. A complex enough document or spreadsheet will cause Word and Excel to use a gig or more. Then there's Visio and PowerPoint. Most of this stuff has to be left running because it just takes too damn long to load and close them all the time off of a HDD (work won't provide me with an SSD, I'm still working on them). That's not even counting when one is working with large DATA FILES rather than programs, such as movie files, DVD ISO files, databases, virtual hard disk files, all of which tend to clock in well over a gig each.

My system at work has 8 GB of RAM and it's always full. My personal laptop has 8 GB and I can fill it easily. On both of them I write well over a gigs worth o temporary files at one time all l the time. I still leave things running until I'm done with them, because it's simply a waste to close and re-open apps every 5 minutes. With this usage pattern, consumer-oriented SSDs are still by design calculated to last over 10 years. There's no need to baby them by minimizing the number of read and write operations to them, and that in fact defeats the purpose of using an SSD in the first place.

It sounds like you're working with small files in small applications sequentially, which means, frankly, you'll get hardly any benefit from an SSD except for when you boot your system.

 

[Minerva]

OP worried about reliability/integrity but I'm willing to bet they are running non ECC memory!

SSDs are fine just don't get OCZ. They are known to use "floor sweepings" or so called "seconds" in quality for NAND. Regardless or controller or performance you take your chances. Go with Intel, Micron, Samsung, Toshiba, etc.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

There is no reason to hold a SSD to a separate standard compared to your existing hard drive. You can swap in an SSD and continue using it like you always have (minus defragmenting of course) and get superior reliability and vastly superior performance. I have 5 SSDs between my 3 systems and they were are substantial upgrades that were well worth the money compared to the mechanical drives they replaced.

At the moment you can get Crucial M4's and Samsung 830's for dirt cheap prices compared to what many of us payed a short while ago. Both of those drives have far lower failure rates than mechanical drives and would have no problem holding up to regular use without all of the extra precautions you mentioned.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I run Outlook on my enterprise mailbox, VM VirtualBox, vSphere client, Visual Studio, SQL Server Management Studio, Eclipse, MMC with about 10 modules loaded to manage my domain, and many other things that can easily chew up a gig or more. Heck, run enough tabs and FIREFOX will chew up more than a gig...or Chrome, or even IE. Java as well. A complex enough document or spreadsheet will cause Word and Excel to use a gig or more. Then there's Visio and PowerPoint. Most of this stuff has to be left running because it just takes too damn long to load and close them all the time off of a HDD (work won't provide me with an SSD, I'm still working on them). That's not even counting when one is working with large DATA FILES rather than programs, such as movie files, DVD ISO files, databases, virtual hard disk files, all of which tend to clock in well over a gig each.

My system at work has 8 GB of RAM and it's always full. My personal laptop has 8 GB and I can fill it easily. On both of them I write well over a gigs worth o temporary files at one time all l the time. I still leave things running until I'm done with them, because it's simply a waste to close and re-open apps every 5 minutes. With this usage pattern, consumer-oriented SSDs are still by design calculated to last over 10 years. There's no need to baby them by minimizing the number of read and write operations to them, and that in fact defeats the purpose of using an SSD in the first place.

It sounds like you're working with small files in small applications sequentially, which means, frankly, you'll get hardly any benefit from an SSD except for when you boot your system.

You have a windows network domain, that might explains it.
The pc at work is slow as hell even while it is 2 times as fast as my pc at home. I have a network at home but a very simple one, when i transfer files, i use the browser which is Opera. It works by a client server principle. Everything is only visible when i need it. It is not a windows domain that keeps updating and checking. Which is necessary of course, it is not a bad thing, i just have no use for it.
Otherwise, everything is a separate entity. I like it that way. What i do not use, must be shutdown.

To give you an idea of my software, i am doing multitasking in parallel.
I have only 1 GB of RAM, mind you.
I use visual studio C++ express too and have open often at the same same with it : open office for the documents that i write, draw(which is similar to powerpoint for to create pictures). Together with 3 to 5 pdf files, some are 10MB or more.
A small ARM IDE (my own). And i am listening to music from an Mp3 or youtube from one of the tabs of Opera. Still, everything opens and closes in a second or seconds(depending on the program). Visual takes time as does open office to open. But closing is seconds work. I use the xilinx IDE which is a huge install, 20GB. The xilinx IDE is the biggest program i have.
If i would use an SSD, my current pc would respond as my android phone does. Instantly . And i do not even have my new system yet that will be over 4 times as fast overall speed as my current one. Yay.

But if you open really large files of a few hundred MB or larger than 1GB, i can imagine where your hardware requirements come from.

For me, having 4GB, will give me an edge when i will use a ramdisk.
I am also going to virtualize , but when i do, it will be only one at a time.

 

[William Gaatjes]

OP worried about reliability/integrity but I'm willing to bet they are running non ECC memory!

SSDs are fine just don't get OCZ. They are known to use "floor sweepings" or so called "seconds" in quality for NAND. Regardless or controller or performance you take your chances. Go with Intel, Micron, Samsung, Toshiba, etc.

I am not running ECC memory, but i am also not overclocking or pushing my memory to its limits. I hope i do not get banned for refusing overclocking.

I am not an early adopter, i let others take the fall, and afterwards, i reap the benefits of next generation devices. I do want an SSD, i just do not feel comfortable about it yet. And it seems i really must tweak windows 7. I always say :
"Windows is like a wild horse, you must tame it and learn it tricks.
Then it will run faster then ever known."

 

[jwilliams4200]

Anyone buying an SSD in 2012 is certainly not an "early adopter". Early adopters bought SSDs in 2008 or 2009. It is now almost 4 years since Intel released the X25-M that showed what kind of performance was possible with consumer SSDs. Now Intel is on their 4th generation SSD, and other big SSD makers are on their 3rd or 4th generation SSDs.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Anyone buying an SSD in 2012 is certainly not an "early adopter". Early adopters bought SSDs in 2008 or 2009. It is now almost 4 years since Intel released the X25-M that showed what kind of performance was possible with consumer SSDs. Now Intel is on their 4th generation SSD, and other big SSD makers are on their 3rd or 4th generation SSDs.

Well, now i know that what i buy.
I just looked at the prices. A crucial M4 64GB Crucial CT064M4SSD1 / CT064M4SSD2 for around 75 euro is not much money for an SSD disk.
The D2 version seems to be only 415MB/s and the D1 version 500MB/s. Although these are probably more marketing figures.

I might be persuaded. But i still do not know what HDD is similar in quality as my SP1614N. I think i have to go to the silentpc forums again and look around.

I have to find out how good this model is :
ST500DM005 from SAMSUNG. 500GB SATA300. Costs 70 around euros. For the budget that would be fine in combination with the SSD.

The store also has refurbished drives for low prices, but i do not feel comfortable with that.

 

[npaladin-2000]

If you want the best quality and fastest mechanical HDD, you should consider Western Digital's Black line. Caviar for desktops, Scorpio for laptops. The Velocoraptor is good too but more expensive and only has an advantage with large sequential reads and writes. The Seagate Momentus XT line is also good but only gives an advantage in reading commonly used files.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I927 using Tapatalk 2

 

[LokutusofBorg]

This thread is a textbook example of SSD phobia, and I hope people coming in and reading it looking for viewpoints to consider will recognize it as such.

SSDs are just as or more reliable than HDDs as long as you buy a model with a good reputation. And there is zero reason to tweak Windows if you install it to an SSD. Zero.

Spend a little time reading *these* forums instead of the other ones you mentioned and all these gaps should be filled in for you in very little time.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I have always tweaked my windows since windows95 and have only had advantages from it.

Thus , i am not going to stop now.
And to return to the subject of SSD. I got what i wanted. Information.
I have even been persuaded to buy a small SSD next to a medium sized HDD.
As anybody who has value data, i also backup my data on an external disk.
But a 500GB SDD is too expensive for me. Thus i will buy what i wrote in the post above. In the EU, there is a 36 months warranty. The warranty is no use for me, i just want my data to be save. That is why i always use rar files as well. The rar program will mention it if the checksum is wrong as will any filesystem.

Your post however, is an opinion. I have no use for that.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It seems that STEC, a company which seems to be a household brand in the SSD industry has some research done about SSD failure. Also, the prognoses that with each smaller generation, endurance problems increase.


http://www.stec-inc.com/

 

[blastingcap]

Hello everybody,

I once bought a SAMSUNG Spinpoint SP1614N. And this HDD is silent,fast and still working.

But it is only 160GB and not SATA.
I am planning to buy this model from SAMSUNG : ST1000DM005
A 1TB HDD, 32MB cache with a SATA/300 connection.

This disc is from the spinpoint barracuda series.
I had not so good experience with seagate and i really want a quiet HDD that does not vibrate. Seek noise i am fine with, i like to hear when my HDD is being accessed. But when the pc is idle, it must be quiet. And with my old SP1614N this is the case. The SP1614N is absolutely quiet and does not vibrate.

Does Seagate make the HDD now for SAMSUNG or is making HDD a joint venture for both companies ?

And how is the quality and noise for the ST1000DM005 ?
Anybody has experience or a review ?

Samsung sold off their HDD division to Seagate a while back http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/seagate-samsung-acquisition/

 

[William Gaatjes]

I would think that Samsung sold of their HDD division in favor of the SSD market.
I have read a lot of positive posts about the Samsung SSD 830 series?
The 830 series seem to be very popular all over the internet.
Very reliable after years of working.
The 128GB might be interesting for me. Model MZ-7PC128B/WW.