(Second + Third) Ebola Confirmed Infection Dallas

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uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,578
2,913
136
Can ebola survive in exposed bodies of water.
Can it survive water treatment?

Maybe find out the answers before trying to write the next Tom Clancy novel?

The next Tom Clancy novel? Ebola was already used in executive orders!
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,794
146
The next Tom Clancy novel? Ebola was already used in executive orders!

And weaponized in rainbow six!

As infectious as it is, it's only moderately contagious. So while I'm not happy it's in the same state I live in, I'm not quite ready to move to Iceland.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Don't go to Iceland, the huldufólk will just get you. Greenland is safer anyway.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
When I got my Red Cross firstaid/aed/cpr course they had a specific order and method your supposed to take your gloves off as standard procedure.

I wonder if they teach this in Spain, they should have at least have them do a refresher and make sure they follow the routine before handling ebola patients.

But don't they say it not that easy to get? So if that were really the case how is taking off your suit incorrectly causing someone to get infected?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
But don't they say it not that easy to get? So if that were really the case how is taking off your suit incorrectly causing someone to get infected?

Because of you touch the outside of your glove with your skin, then their is a high risk chance you have become infected. The smallest cut on the skin is all it takes, even one that you don't notice. The most dangerous part is the removal of the gloves, and this is often where errors occur. Like the nurse in spain is suspected of brushing her face with her gloves while removing them. The smallest error can lead to infection.
 
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Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
But don't they say it not that easy to get? So if that were really the case how is taking off your suit incorrectly causing someone to get infected?

The gloves are the most contaminated part of any healthcare worker. It is why there is such an ordeal for removing them.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
Because of you touch the outside of your glove with your skin, then their is a high risk chance you have become infected. The smallest cut on the skin is all it takes, even one that you don't notice. The most dangerous part is the removal of the gloves, and this is often where errors occur. Like the nurse in spain is suspected of brushing her face with her gloves while removing them. The smallest error can lead to infection.

So she had some form of bodily fluids on her gloves.

It sounds a lot easier to spread then experts let on.
 

massmedia

Senior member
Oct 1, 2014
232
0
0
The incubation period can be fairly long but the actual time they can spread it is much shorter and only occurs once symptoms show up. Is it really that difficult for some of you to realize maybe take precautions around sick people? In general, I tend to keep other people's body fluids off/out of me, and if they're visibly sick, that goes orders of magnitude higher. Weirdly I tend to not get sick unless it's because I end up around some asshole that is sick but keeps forcing their presence around other people (and also being asshole like not covering their mouths when they cough or other things to try and limit themselves infecting others).
if only you would travel around africa hosting lectures on disease avoidance we could eliminate ont only ebola but also the flu from the entire continent. truly amazingpowers of make believe you've got there.

Do you understand the logistics it would take to do that? Has nothing at all to do with the value of African resources and everything to do with the fact that African countries can't actually accomplish that and trying to do it will likely just lead to worse problems.

Closing airports is astonishingly simple and thenumber of troops needed to do such a ridiculously simple mission in a US friendly nations is small. this wouldn't be necessary however as this could be accomplished in 10 minutes with one phone call from the US president acoupled with promises of enormous aide and an influx of aide workers and supplies.

The best thing is to spread knowledge and awareness of the disease, setup treatment facilities, and work to fight the disease head on. Which is exactly what they've been doing.
Africa does not havethe capability to fight this, that capability will either come from the west or the disease will never be contained. Doctors without borders have been begging for help on this outbreak since DECEMBER and nobody (not the US, not the UN, not the WHO, not european countries) gave a shit about the outbreak... and so it spread and spread.

Currently the disease is spreading exponentially every 30 days so apparently theclock is ticking on your whirlwind tour of personal hygeine advice for the africans. With your no nonsense tips on how to locate and avoid contact with bodliy fluids thousands of liveswill be saved at near zero cost. truly amazing!

as to what has been done so far and as to what is being done so far by the rest of the world... it might as well benothing because it has been and continues to be so inadequate... so far behind what is needed that spread of Ebola in africa is completely out of control with no signs of slowing whatsoever. If i am wrong onthis point please point me to news indicating that the spread of thedisease has slowed.

ifthis goes onmuch longer with the US just sitting back and making trivial efforts there is avery real chance that this disease will become a permanent part of life in africa which means that p oint outbreaks will become a permanent feature of humanity worldwide. still, not a problem as all this can be avoided if we follow your sage advice on avoiding the flu and ebola through superhuman detectin of infected bodily methods using your tried and true methods. please compose a leaflet that we can give to people instead of this year's flu vaccine.
 

BusyBeaverHP

Member
Oct 8, 2009
32
7
81
Microbiology graduate here. Some facts about Ebola from the Public Health Agency of Canada:

Infectious dose: 1-10 viral particles.

Survival Outside Host: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C).

One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature.

In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa).

When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days.

A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.

Last word: For those who keeps insisting that Ebola isn't highly contagious, including the spokesman for the CDC, there's a reason why we keep it in a BSL-4 lab, there's a reason why healthcare workers show up in a positive pressure suit.

1 to 10 viral particles that lands on your mucous membrane, be it eye, nasal passage, mouth, etc. is all it takes for the virus to multiply out of control and evade the immune system.

My professor once said: "You know you're screwed when the people treating you are in biohazard suits."
 
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ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Because of you touch the outside of your glove with your skin, then their is a high risk chance you have become infected. The smallest cut on the skin is all it takes, even one that you don't notice. The most dangerous part is the removal of the gloves, and this is often where errors occur. Like the nurse in spain is suspected of brushing her face with her gloves while removing them. The smallest error can lead to infection.

Ahh. Now I understand the definition of "hard to catch". Not at all what I was thinking.
 

massmedia

Senior member
Oct 1, 2014
232
0
0
yeah, taking off gloves coated in virus or other toxic reagents is tricky.

you have to use one gloved hand that is contaminated to grab near the wrist edge of the other and roll the one being grabbed down and then reverse the grip about halfway down and grab the other glove with the still protected fingertips of the half rolled down glove to roll the second down.

alternatively you roll one all the way off, grip it in the still gloved hand, then use your bare hand to grab near the edge of the other glove that is still on and pull that one down while gripping the 1st glove in the still gloved hand creating a kind of baggie.

either way, you end up with the gloves inside out and one glove inside the other with the contaminated surfaces inwards facing. if they are double gloving this will be easier.

with experience this becomes a thoughtless process that is ingrained in "muscle memory" and this is the danger.

also, gloves are really good at "flicking" liquid droplets if you do this wrong or if you catch them on something. also, gloves have occasional defects which you dont always notice before putting them on. although rare, i imagine that they are going through cases of gloves on these patients.

couple that with what BusyBeaverHP says about 1-10 viral particles as sufficient to create an infection and that sounds very tricky.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,794
146
Microbiology graduate here. Some facts about Ebola from the Public Health Agency of Canada:

Infectious dose: 1-10 viral particles.

Survival Outside Host: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C).

One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature.

In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa).

When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days.

A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.

Last word: For those who keeps insisting that Ebola isn't highly contagious, including the spokesman for the CDC, there's a reason why we keep it in a BSL-4 lab, there's a reason why healthcare workers show up in a positive pressure suit.

1 to 10 viral particles that lands on your mucous membrane, be it eye, nasal passage, mouth, etc. is all it takes for the virus to multiply out of control and evade the immune system.

My professor once said: "You know you're screwed when the people treating you are in biohazard suits."

I agree it's highly infectious and I am not a disease expert, but what does it say about contagious?

What I had read was that Ebola is not very contagious when compared to, flu, colds, measles, etc due to that fact that its not airborne, and those who are infected don't shed virus until it's obvious they are infected.

Let's face it, while I won't be suprised if at least one of the original patients family members come down with it, we know the nurse was in contact with his bodily fluids.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
Because of you touch the outside of your glove with your skin, then their is a high risk chance you have become infected. The smallest cut on the skin is all it takes, even one that you don't notice. The most dangerous part is the removal of the gloves, and this is often where errors occur. Like the nurse in spain is suspected of brushing her face with her gloves while removing them. The smallest error can lead to infection.

But why don't they dip thier gloved hands into a chlorine solution for 30 seconds before removing the gloves? Instead of trying to remove gloves with live virus particles.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
Don't go to Iceland, the huldufólk will just get you. Greenland is safer anyway.

:thumbsup: No real airport and only a seaport with limited routs from northern Europe. Plus ebola is clearly used to warm humid climates so it will be weaker in colder environments until it evolves.

I agree it's highly infectious and I am not a disease expert, but what does it say about contagious?

What I had read was that Ebola is not very contagious when compared to, flu, colds, measles, etc due to that fact that its not airborne, and those who are infected don't shed virus until it's obvious they are infected.

That has been my understanding as well. I think the biggest 'scare' part is that we don't know how to treat ebola as well as the more infectious contagions we are familiar with like diphtheria, whooping cough, measles etc
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,794
146
:thumbsup: No real airport and only a seaport with limited routs from northern Europe. Plus ebola is clearly used to warm humid climates so it will be weaker in colder environments until it evolves.



That has been my understanding as well. I think the biggest 'scare' part is that we don't know how to treat ebola as well as the more infectious contagions we are familiar with like diphtheria, whooping cough, measles etc

I'm hopeful that since people who do survive seem to be immune, it seems like it should be possible to synthesize a vaccine. I know there's at least one vaccine in trials.

Again I'm not an expert.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
You are a doctor, and have two pairs of rubber gloves. What's the most suspected Ebola patients can you treat so that there is no direct or indirect contact between any of the patients or yourself?
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
8,883
107
106
Do they even seriously bother with standard latex gloves alone? I would think cuffed PVC gloves over latex would be standard fare. That way they could use acid washes before removal. This BS has my fiancee concerned. I am too busy to care until it permeates Coloradoan borders.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,858
8,477
136
You can survive ebola in the wild. But the only solution i've seen is when the blood of the survivors are given to those infected. It usually works. However, it's only been done in Africa and as a last resort.

Negative. It's been done with all the patients treated in US except the one that died in Dallas.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,328
68
91
Does Amazon have ebola survivor blood?
It better be Prime eligible.
 

BusyBeaverHP

Member
Oct 8, 2009
32
7
81
I agree it's highly infectious and I am not a disease expert, but what does it say about contagious?

What I had read was that Ebola is not very contagious when compared to, flu, colds, measles, etc due to that fact that its not airborne, and those who are infected don't shed virus until it's obvious they are infected.

Let's face it, while I won't be suprised if at least one of the original patients family members come down with it, we know the nurse was in contact with his bodily fluids.
Infectiousness does affect contagiousness. All things equal, the less virions it takes to spread the infection, the more contagious the virus is.

When the CDC says ebola spreads through direct contact with "blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola"... They're not exactly lying, but the definition of "direct contact" is misleading the public, because we know that ebola can be spread by aerosolized droplets.

Cutting through the semantics of what is considered airborne and direct contact: one virion riding on a 1.2 micrometer droplet that lands in a healthy person's eye, mouth, or nasal passage is all it takes (droplets up to 100 micrometers are generated during a sneeze).... I don't know about you, but if someone sneezes and gives me ebola, it's airborne in my book.

Can you get ebola by touching an object that has been in contact with an ebola patient? Inconclusive, but knowing ebola's survivability outside the host, and the low number of virions needed to initiate infection, here's some anecdotal evidence:

NBC Cameraman Believes He Contracted Ebola While Cleaning Infected Car.

There is a reason why hazmat crews are called in to to spray bleach every single object ebola patients touches... is it because ebola can persist long outside the host, and that touching an ebola-sweat laden doorknob and touching your face will result in death? You don't think they do that with something harmless like HIV do you?

There is a reason why nurses and doctors who of all people know about the proper protection against ebola, still get infected by it. For all their proper protection, one virion is all it takes.
 
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paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
Microbiology graduate here. Some facts about Ebola from the Public Health Agency of Canada:

Infectious dose: 1-10 viral particles.

Survival Outside Host: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C).

One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature.

In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa).

When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days.

A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.

Last word: For those who keeps insisting that Ebola isn't highly contagious, including the spokesman for the CDC, there's a reason why we keep it in a BSL-4 lab, there's a reason why healthcare workers show up in a positive pressure suit.

1 to 10 viral particles that lands on your mucous membrane, be it eye, nasal passage, mouth, etc. is all it takes for the virus to multiply out of control and evade the immune system.

My professor once said: "You know you're screwed when the people treating you are in biohazard suits."

Basically what you are saying is shut down air travel to the US from known infected places.

Send all potentially known effected people in the US to bio labs and not hospitals.

Why do they say Ebola isn't air borne? If someone sneezes near you and your on the receiving end of a sick Ebola carrier your infected. Isn't that air borne?
 

keird

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
3,714
9
81
The smallest visible droplet size is 50 microns. I routinely administer medicine that 3 to 5 microns in diameter. If a particle that's 1.2 microns can carry this virus, I wouldn't want to be in the same zip code without wearing a positive pressure suit and an air pack.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
I'm seeing this compared to the flu a lot... The flu doesn't have a >50% kill rate.
 

BeeBoop

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2013
1,677
0
0
What I find interesting about how she merely touched her face with the gloves is that she wasn't actively sucking on the virus like some other posters here were saying that you had to do in order to contract the disease. This thing is deadly and extremely contagious.
 
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