Secure Erase SSD outside Windows?

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groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,390
0
0
you don't have to understand something to make it fact. Google is your friend.

Best analogy I can give you is a simple question.. why run "old gas" when the whole idea is to start fresh?

SE Q&A is here.
http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/SecureErase.shtml

more details here.
http://www.destructdata.com/secure-erase.html

as far as the USB requirements? different standards altogether and I can only assume they don't intend them to be used as OS based drives in the first place.

For any other question as to the validity or need to SE your SSD's? First off.. this is Sandforce we're talking about here. To understand that up front eliminates many of these debates. They are NOT the same as other SSD's in many regards, most of which in this discussion is related to the drives mapping process.

If you go back to the first gen SF(or even this one for that matter), the drive keeps what's called a Durawrite map after all nand has been touched with writes at least once. This happens faster than you realize as even surfing the web will scratch data to your SSD(even moreso with streaming media) and the controller will ALWAYS attempt to write to fresh "clean reserve pool" blocks.

Reformatting/reinstalling or using "TRIM and erasing tools"(other than the proper SE command) will ABSOLUTELY NOT wipe a SF internal map. The biggest kicker is this. Whatever the controller was dealing with from a recovery standpoint(amount of clean blocks in reserve) prior to that reformat/reinstall will only get compounded that much more when you write more data to the drive(such as a fresh install or reimage will do). SE wipes ALL maps and will eliminate all but the worst LTT algorithm(such as hitting the drive with 40TB's worth of data in less than a week to see how long the flash will last).

Also consider that the Sandforce controller will have the ability to write contiguously after all maps have been wiped and all throttles(often called a "settled state"). This is because Durawrite requires the map to be in place to regain full control of wear leveling and "settled state" performance once again. This effect is much more exaggerated with the first gen SF.. but even this newer one has similar tendencies and internal Durawrite coding. It just skewes most peoples perspectives because it recovers in a much more aggressive manner due to better TRIM functionality(it's not so lazy as it used to be) and on-the-fly garbage collection which is all a direct result of the larger recycling engine.

So, just because you don't see the drive slow down from a throttle or the various hardware's internal ACPI tabling processes(maps)?.. does not mean that they don't exist. Because they do.. and many of your drives(not just Sandforce) will still have remnant data(some of which can "freak a Sandforce controller's tables all to hell") if not properly erased at the entire physical level. Simply forcing the controller and its internal mapping to "just deal with it".. is not the correct way to baseline an SSD.

And for that matter.. if it's mission critical enterprise type implementation we're talikng about here?(and I realize we're not but who are you to judge whether or not my data is worthy of such lofty standards?).. even those with simple HDD usually flip all bits to a known standard for the sake of proper baselines to build from. If it's good enough for enterprise?.. it's certainly good enough for me.

SE is cheap insurance and it cost's you barely a penny of electricity to do.
 
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Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
I would SE both drives in another system using the Intel toolbox and then start again and reinstall Windows.

If the problem comes back then you will have to investigate deeper.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,997
20
81
Just saw this thread and I'm having very similar issues as the OP.

I had some errors on my SSD RAID-0 array (2x Corsair Force GT 120GB) and had to do a repair install. Ever since then, my system has been slow as hell and just last week, I started getting random freezes, hangs, etc. I decided to reinstall the OS and start afresh.

The issue I'm having now is that I'm not sure how to Secure Erase the SSDs.

Corsair recommends Parted Magic but I cannot create a working bootable DVD (it keeps saying "PMAGIC_2012_4_21.sqfs cannot be found") nor can I get my USB drive to be recognized by UNetBootIn to make that a bootable USB for Parted Magic.

So how on earth do I properly Secure Erase (ie. baseline) my SSDs?

I don't have another system (they are Macs and a VAIO laptop with no SATA port) to connect my SSD to use the Intel Toolbox.

Please help!

I don't mean to hijack the thread btw. I just want to know how to secure erase the SSDs and set them to their optimal "new" condition.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
Baasha see post #2 and use the method 3. Also the Intel toolbox will be of no use to you as your drives are Corsair. The Intel secure erase feature is locked to Intel drives.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
Simplest way :

1) Create gparted bootable disc
2) Disconnect all other HDDs
3) Boot up gparted distro, close gparted and open terminal
4) "hdparm --security-erase NULL /dev/sda"
5) DONE

I use this all the time when reimaging my OS.

Just a note, that method does nothing. You have to set a user password on the drive, before you can initiate the secure erase command. Otherwise, it does nothing.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
Just a note, that method does nothing. You have to set a user password on the drive, before you can initiate the secure erase command. Otherwise, it does nothing.
I did wonder you know when I read that originally. There's about 4 different commands to enter on the method I linked to and I didn't think they would be there for no reason.
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,390
0
0
Just saw this thread and I'm having very similar issues as the OP.

I had some errors on my SSD RAID-0 array (2x Corsair Force GT 120GB) and had to do a repair install. Ever since then, my system has been slow as hell and just last week, I started getting random freezes, hangs, etc. I decided to reinstall the OS and start afresh.

The issue I'm having now is that I'm not sure how to Secure Erase the SSDs.

Corsair recommends Parted Magic but I cannot create a working bootable DVD (it keeps saying "PMAGIC_2012_4_21.sqfs cannot be found") nor can I get my USB drive to be recognized by UNetBootIn to make that a bootable USB for Parted Magic.

So how on earth do I properly Secure Erase (ie. baseline) my SSDs?

I don't have another system (they are Macs and a VAIO laptop with no SATA port) to connect my SSD to use the Intel Toolbox.

Please help!

I don't mean to hijack the thread btw. I just want to know how to secure erase the SSDs and set them to their optimal "new" condition.

sounds like you either have some bios config issues there?.. or more likely a USB stick issue. Try another stick and see if Unetbootin will write the ISO needed. Otherwise you will have to go the bootable CD route.

You could also try OCZ's utility which is essentially the same tool(Tiny Linux). Here's their tutorial and file links.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?99275-NEW!-Bootable-tools-for-OCZ-SSD-s
 

Hopper642

Member
Jan 30, 2010
79
0
0
Coup27-That's exactly what I had planned to do. It's probably the safest bet. I don't think it's a hardware problem simply because I received another warning message that the issue was fixed. And the errors have not returned with such frequency. The original error occurred X50 or X60 in the event viewer. It was the same error over and over logged in after I simply checked my email. Thanks for the help.

Baasha-No worries. You have a similar problem. Hijack away.
 
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Zoomer

Senior member
Dec 1, 1999
257
0
76
Don't apologize at all. That's the clearest, most concise explanation of this technology that I have run across yet. I did wonder why a SE with Intel's SSD toolbox was so quick, and you explained that quite well. The longer I have this machine and these parts, the more I pick up here and there. I am in your debt. I will undoubtedly move these drives over to a second machine to do a SE via Intel's own toolbox assuring me of the proper result as you describe.

I could even reflash the firmware at the same time, but how critical is this overall? And, also, how critical is "CMOS clears"? I am assuming you are not speaking of the CMOS with the motherboard, correct?

Thanks for the help. Most appreciated.

groberts101's post was funny.

chkdsk checks for filesystem errors. All hard disks operate on the block level. They don't know nor care what is in the blocks.

Sandforce secure erase being fast: A one time string is being used in deriving the stream to be written to flash. This is akin to key of a block cipher. If you throw away said key, the contents of the stream cannot be feasibly recovered. Therefore, it can be considered to be securely erased.

Secure erasing before a fresh install is probably a good idea, and can't hurt, since there's no way to tell if deleting a partition TRIMs all blocks the partition occupies.

Burst of voltage for erasing: Yes, that's how all flash memory works.

I'm only here because Intel's SSD toolbox would not secure erase my drives. Apparently they won't unlock.

Edit: Reading about BIOS passwords gave me an idea. Since that's how Intel's drive encryption works, setting a bios password with the drive connected should result in a new key being generated.
 
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