SecuROM Discussion Thread

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: Bee

Originally posted by: nova2
"bee said: the worst incarnation of SecuROM"

whats so bad about bioshocks securom version? (i do not mean the 5x5 activation limit)

I see people hating on it but I haven't seen any good reasons why.

these are a couple of new "cool" features of Bioshock's SecuROM version:
1) for $50 you purchase a license to rent the game for up to 5 x 5 installations. Pray that their activation server is online, YOU must be online anyway.
2) they limit your rights to install whatever software you like on your computer.
3) they create a potential security hole on your computer which can be exploited by an experienced hacker.

need more?

1. 25 installations is not enough? They've also mentioned that there will come a time when they will deactivate the activation scheme, once the post-release hype has died down.
2. Fair enough.
3. Uh-oh. Explain to me?

 

[nova2]

"2) they limit your rights to install whatever software you like on your computer. "
what? no problems here, none. daemon tools seems fine, and proc explorer 9.25 doesn't
make securom complain (I dont leave PE running) when I run bioshock, but most people don't even know what PE is, nor
do they have it.

"3) they create a potential security hole on your computer which can be exploited"
UAService isn't installed on my PC, so it seems to only be installed when you run under a limited user account.
The majority run as admins by default, and not as limited users, so only the minority have this.
Even if this is a possible security issue (if you have proof from http://secunia.com , post it), it isn't on the same level at all as critical vulns would be in browsers, IM clients, email clients, quicktime, flash, shockwave, java and other software.
If you have the service installed and dont want it, then disable it or delete it like any other service.
If most users would regularly verify all the software they have installed by using Secunia's (free) Software Inspector (great app), they'd be better off.

the game requires online activation
yeah, reminds me of Half-life 2, except here you don't need to decrypt the whole game (at least with my HL2 discs this needs to be done).
You just download the bioshock.exe and some other files, after activation succeeds.
I've read that Ken Levine has said that at some undisclosed point in the future they will remove the activation limit, personally I expect them to, it'd be strange for them not to.

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
Is there anyway to remove SecureROM w/o removing the game? I want to keep NWN2 on my machine, but I want SR off because it's causing stabilization issues.

I'd like to know also.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Stas
(I don't think software monst... giants like Ubi and EA give them more than 50% from a sold copy) directly to the dev team while downloading the game and using a crack

If even that. If it's anything like the music industry, i think they get less, much less.

When I'm ready to start distributing my game, I'm going to do it solo, no pub, buy from the site, etc. Avoid distribution and shelving costs.

Marketing will likely take a hit, but I know HITECH didn't start advertising his game until it was established a couple years. I think he may be doing pretty good because his game is still going strong.

 

[voodoodrul]

So I have been trying to fight this issue for months.. After multiple clean installs of Vista x64 and Office 2007 trying to narrow down the cause, after I install Neverwinter Nights 2 or any SecuROM protected title, then run the game, exit the game and remove the CD, then simply sit at the desktop for 10 minutes and try to run Word 2007, I get the following application popup:


Log Name: System
Source: Application Popup
Date: 9/3/2007 8:25:21 PM
Event ID: 26
Task Category: None
Level: Information
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: Neptune
Description:
Application popup: Windows - No Disk : Exception Processing Message 0xc0000013 Parameters 0x000007FEFD63E75C 0xFFFFFA8004580120 0x000007FEFD63E75C 0x000007FEFD63E75C
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Application Popup" />
<EventID Qualifiers="16384">26</EventID>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>0</Task>
<Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2007-09-04T02:25:21.000Z" />
<EventRecordID>5934</EventRecordID>
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>Neptune</Computer>
<Security />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data>Windows - No Disk</Data>
<Data>Exception Processing Message 0xc0000013 Parameters 0x000007FEFD63E75C 0xFFFFFA8004580120 0x000007FEFD63E75C 0x000007FEFD63E75C</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>

Office 2007 isn't to blame either. I can get the same application popup if I run other SecuROM titles or really any app that tries to probe the DVD drive on startup. Office just happens to do it, so I have been testing with that..

I've updated drive firmware and even tried a completely different DVD drive.

This never happens if I keep the SecuROM applications off my PC. Or if I simply don't try to run a SecuROM title since my last reboot. This is not a trojan/virus/spyware/adware related issue. It is 100% attributable to SecuROM.. Any ideas on how I can get this resolved? Securom redirects all email to > /dev/null, so that's a pointless endeavour.

The end result of this is I can work around the problem by telling the app to skip the error and move on or by rebooting every time I run a game but I don't think that's really much of a solution.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Is it a rootkit?

• Sony has stated that it is not a rootkit, link.
  

  It is no spyware or rootkit at all.

here's another interpretation:

Please note that SecuROM? does not use any root kit technology in its implementation.

They don't use any prior rootkit tech, doesn't mean they didn't make their own from scratch.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: Judgement

Originally posted by: aCynic2
Is there anyway to remove SecureROM w/o removing the game? I want to keep NWN2 on my machine, but I want SR off because it's causing stabilization issues.

I'd like to know also.

You can remove Securom while leaving the game installed. However, it will reinstall itself next time you run the game, as the game's exe is bugged with it.

 

[toughwimp11]

if i buy bioshock off steam, will i have all the problems people are having with cd/dvd games?

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: toughwimp11
if i buy bioshock off steam, will i have all the problems people are having with cd/dvd games?

Depends. I had to search for a fix for Bioshock because it kept crashing on the second level and as it turns out the fix even increased my fps by a lot. I don't think you should have to spend a few days trying to fix a final game.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

[*]I am angry about this DRM in games

• Vote with your wallet and do not buy the game and just live without it.

• 
  
  This is what I intend to do. Now that I know what SR will do to my very expensive machine, I'll avoid any game that attempts to install this on it.
  
  However, I don't think publishers/developers are making it known up front if they are using that POS, so I think it's gonna be an after-you type of test.

• 
  
  Unfortunately for gamers, Securom is used by many companies, unlike Starforce which was used primarily by Ubisoft and a few smaller developers.
  
  One of the things that really bugs me about this type of DRM software is that when a new OS comes out and I want to fire up the game, will the DRM files be compatible with my new OS? I sincerely hope that when the game reaches the end of its lifecycle, that there will be a patch that removes the requirement for DRM software to be active.

 

[cytoSiN]

I've been reading lately that Vista 64 Ultimate *blocks* securom, and game (e.g., BioShock) will still work. Apparently it still creates the first reg entry "C:\regdelnull HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SecuROM -s" but then it doesn't install any other keys or services. Can anyone confirm this? I know at least one other AT member encountered this, but I can't remember where I read it...

 

[XBoxLPU]

http://www.tomshardware.com/fo...stalling-bioshock-demo

 

[manowar821]

To make this more clear, I actually didn't have to have ProcessExplorer running for it to throw out a SecuROM error when trying to start it. It only needed to be installed.

SecuROM really does attempt to change what you may and may not have installed on your own system. Even if you were right, and you could run a SecuROM protected game when ProcessExplorer is NOT running, that's still unacceptable. I shouldn't have to box with my computer any more to get a game to run. I already have to do enough of that with poor video card drivers and bad memory allocation by programmers.

SecuROM is unacceptable and invasive, not on the same level as starforce, but just as bad idealistically.

 

[tk149]

:| I just ordered Jade Empire from Amazon, and then I found this thread.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: CP5670

Originally posted by: Judgement

Originally posted by: aCynic2
Is there anyway to remove SecureROM w/o removing the game? I want to keep NWN2 on my machine, but I want SR off because it's causing stabilization issues.

I'd like to know also.

You can remove Securom while leaving the game installed. However, it will reinstall itself next time you run the game, as the game's exe is bugged with it.

Oh well, when I finish the campaign, the game comes off and goes in the trash. I'll never buy another Atari game again, nor Sierra.

I'll just have to make my own games.

 

[Piuc2020]

Don't buying the game isn't any better anyways, its your loss (I rather have to deal with SecuROM than not play Bioshock) and developers give a **** about a random forum user "proudly" saying they won't see their money... the miserable $50 bucks of a forum user is nothing, tons of people will (and have already) buy the game.

These things all get cracked I really don't see whats the point in implementing them besides bringing customers headaches of course, does it really stop piracy? Developers don't understand that every downloaded game doesn't translate to a loss. Compare Oblivion sales to Bioshock sales, Oblivion with zero piracy protection and Bioshock with draconian control... is there a marginal difference, has Oblivion not been succesful and released on 3 consoles already?

Guess what guys, games sell because they are good, Warcraft, Starcraft, they all have measle copy protection at best yet they sell better than the games you sell with these absurd copy protection. Newsflash, quality sells games not copy protection. We have, sadly, reached a point where a pirate gets a BETTER gaming experience than a paying customer.

Is there anyone with a brain and some common sense in the game publishing industry?

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Don't buying the game isn't any better anyways, its your loss (I rather have to deal with SecuROM than not play Bioshock) and developers give a **** about a random forum user "proudly" saying they won't see their money... the miserable $50 bucks of a forum user is nothing, tons of people will (and have already) buy the game.

Let them and let their machines crash. Mine is and I didn't spend $3000 to have my computer crash on me.

I don't give a rat's azz if my money means anything to them or not. It means something to me and that's the point. What I don't spend on a SecureROM game, I'll spend on some other form of entertainment, movies, music, women, etc.

That's the opportunity cost for them.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I forgot to add an excellent guide sblade consolidated over on the NWN2 forums about possible errors one might encounter with SecuROM. It is now linked in the OP.

 

[imported_Bee]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Don't buying the game isn't any better anyways, its your loss (I rather have to deal with SecuROM than not play Bioshock) and developers give a **** about a random forum user "proudly" saying they won't see their money... the miserable $50 bucks of a forum user is nothing, tons of people will (and have already) buy the game.

These things all get cracked I really don't see whats the point in implementing them besides bringing customers headaches of course, does it really stop piracy? Developers don't understand that every downloaded game doesn't translate to a loss. Compare Oblivion sales to Bioshock sales, Oblivion with zero piracy protection and Bioshock with draconian control... is there a marginal difference, has Oblivion not been succesful and released on 3 consoles already?

Guess what guys, games sell because they are good, Warcraft, Starcraft, they all have measle copy protection at best yet they sell better than the games you sell with these absurd copy protection. Newsflash, quality sells games not copy protection. We have, sadly, reached a point where a pirate gets a BETTER gaming experience than a paying customer.

Is there anyone with a brain and some common sense in the game publishing industry?

Especially 2k, the publisher of Bioshock, doesn't give a damn if you have problems with Securom. I've been checking their forums for quite a while now, there are several threads with people that can't play the game and are totally left out in the cold by 2k. I hope they are taking a lot of damage from their non-existing customer support.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Don't buying the game isn't any better anyways, its your loss (I rather have to deal with SecuROM than not play Bioshock) and developers give a **** about a random forum user "proudly" saying they won't see their money... the miserable $50 bucks of a forum user is nothing, tons of people will (and have already) buy the game.

These things all get cracked I really don't see whats the point in implementing them besides bringing customers headaches of course, does it really stop piracy? Developers don't understand that every downloaded game doesn't translate to a loss. Compare Oblivion sales to Bioshock sales, Oblivion with zero piracy protection and Bioshock with draconian control... is there a marginal difference, has Oblivion not been succesful and released on 3 consoles already?

Guess what guys, games sell because they are good, Warcraft, Starcraft, they all have measle copy protection at best yet they sell better than the games you sell with these absurd copy protection. Newsflash, quality sells games not copy protection. We have, sadly, reached a point where a pirate gets a BETTER gaming experience than a paying customer.

Is there anyone with a brain and some common sense in the game publishing industry?

Yep. Unfortunately those people usually aren't the one's in charge of making decisions.

Protection schemes are really only in place to prevent the average joe/jane from lending or making a copy for their average joe/jane friends. Anyone with half a brain can use google to obtain a patch or software to bypass the protection.

Reminds me of the last time I went to E3 a few years ago. While waiting in the LA airport for my flight, I saw an employee from EA wearing a baseball cap with a message regarding "anti-piracy" printed on the back of the cap. I chuckled because I know how easy it is to bypass protection schemes...

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
I forgot to add an excellent guide sblade consolidated over on the NWN2 forums about possible errors one might encounter with SecuROM. It is now linked in the OP.

Are you sure you linked to the right place? The "Consult the SecuROM Technical FAQ on the NWN2 forums" link goes to a PC vs console gaming thread.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
I forgot to add an excellent guide sblade consolidated over on the NWN2 forums about possible errors one might encounter with SecuROM. It is now linked in the OP.

Are you sure you linked to the right place? The "Consult the SecuROM Technical FAQ on the NWN2 forums" link goes to a PC vs console gaming thread.

My bad, wrong tab that I copy / pasted, thanks.

 

[ryan256]

Damn... and I was wanting to buy Bioshock and NWN2. Time to start looking for SecuROM free torrents

 

[Capitalizt]

I can't get any of the no-CD cracks to work. Can someone point me in the right direction?

I bought the game on release day and it plays fine with the CD in...but I'm changing discs all the time and find it very annoying to hunt down the Bioshock disc whenever I want to play...

 

[nova2]

@Capitalizt: i don't know (haven't tried the fixed exe yet)

i do know that the skullptura 'mini image' works fine with the north american version + daemon tools 4.09, so i haven't needed the dvd in the drive.