Seeking input for a new Photo Shop CS4 and Premeire Pro system

[mauiblue]

I got this questionaire off the sticky at the top of the forum. My answers are in bold and underlined. I am hoping to build a good system that will be able to run PhotoShop CS4 and Premeire Pro. I have a couple games that I would want to start playing again when I have the chance to like Far Cry and Doom 3. My current system has an Intel P4 with 4 Gb of RAM and a Soyo MOBO. I started having trouble with this system about a month ago when one of the hard drives in my RAID 0 array (primary/OS drives) gave up the ghost. Now I'm thinking of updating and revamping my 5 year old system. I'd appreciate any and all constructive input on what CPU, MOBO, video card, RAM, and even a PSU that I could/should go with. In regards to a case, I'll be reusing my Lian Li case and for optic drive(s) I'm just going to shop around. BTW, I already have a copy of Windows Vista so that is covered.



PLEASE when you POST threads asking for input on system builds tell us...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

My new system will be used with Photo Shop CS4, Premeire Pro, some older games like Far Cry and Doom 3

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

I want to stay within $1200

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

Majority if not all parts will be purchased from Newegg or ZZF for USA use.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.

I don't really have a preference for the CPU (can be either AMD or Intel), motherboard, or video card. From my past experience, I've enjoyed the system I have listed in my sig line.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

I have a few SATA drives that I am going to reuse, including a pair of Seagate 500 Gb SATA hard drives that I bought recently. I also have a Dell LCD 24" display that is working well and a 19" CRT display that is used as a secondary monitor.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

I've not searched any or read any similar threads - sorry!

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I don't need to overclock but it would be nice if the MOBO and CPU combo would allow a novice overclocker to be able to setup the settings without any hassles or surprises.[/B]

8. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Within the next month or so.


The above information IS NEEDED, in order that WE can help YOU make wise judgments on YOUR purchases :laugh:

[I]I hope I had covered all what I needed in order to get a good response on which route to take in building my next system. Mahalo in advance![/i]

 

[Zap]

If this new system is replacing the one in your .SIG, then pretty much anything you get for $1200 would be faster. I'll hig a couple points and leave the details to others...

Because you will be doing a bit of gaming (older or not) and using Photoshop CS4, I'd suggest a video card like the GTX 260 or GTX 275. The reason is that besides being great gaming cards, Photoshop CS4 supports CUDA, which uses the NVIDIA GPUs to help certain processes. The GT200 GPUs (GTX 260/275/280/285/295) are the strongest CUDA GPUs, and the GTX 260 is the cheapest while the GTX 275 has as many stream processors as the more expensive GTX 280/285.

You should use a 64-bit operating system and get a ton of RAM for the Adobe software. If using an AMD or Intel socket 775 setup, go for 8GB RAM. If using Intel Core i7, your choices are 6GB or 12GB if budget allows. You don't need the highest MHz RAM, just a LOT of it. For DDR2 systems, 800MHz is fine. For DDR3 systems, 1333MHz is fine. You can use the cost savings over more expensive RAM to buy MORE RAM or a faster CPU.

For operating system go with Vista 64 or maybe even Windows 7. Everyone can download and use (for free) the release candidate of Windows 7 for a whole year. Free OS!

Make sure you get a really good power supply. Probably 550W and up would be a good choice, or 650W and up if you want a bit more potential. If you like PCP&C you can get a Silencer 610W or 750W. Since OCZ bought them out, seems like they've been dumping those PSUs for pretty cheap after rebates. Of course there are a lot of other excellent choices. Just do the research to make sure it is a good one.

For $1200 you should be able to get a Core i7 setup with 12GB RAM and a GTX 275 powered by a good PSU... and have a few bucks left over.

Core i7 920 CPU $280
random decent X58 chipset motherboard $250
12GB DDR3-1333 $200
GTX 275 graphics card $250
good PSU $100
= $1080

Heck, might be able to swing a Core i7 940 into the budget.

 

[Blain]

Make a fresh start...

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Blain/PartsList.jpg">Core 2 Quad 9650
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Gigabyte EP45-UD3R
MSI R4870 (1GB)
G.Skill HK 2 x 4GB kits
300GB VelociRaptor
CoolerMaster Storm Sniper
Corsair 650TX
LG 22X SATA</a>
Total = $1,127.52 shipped (after rebates)

 

[FixedMyXfi]

Originally posted by: Blain
Make a fresh start...

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Blain/PartsList.jpg">Core 2 Quad 9650
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Gigabyte EP45-UD3R
MSI R4870 (1GB)
G.Skill HK 2 x 4GB kits
300GB VelociRaptor
CoolerMaster Storm Sniper
Corsair 650TX
LG 22X SATA</a>
Total = $1,127.52 shipped (after rebates)

Hmm. Good list. Let me list the vanity for ya though.

Vanity:

300GB VelociRaptor
CoolerMaster Storm Sniper

You can get 2x 1TB Samsung HD103UJs very fast 1 TB, avg read 98MB/s and burst 280MB/s
DON"T RAID THEM, one is for backup of ur important stuff, Raid 1 is a waste, so you just stay away from raid completely

The case.. well, YES u can get a nice case, OR you can use ur old case, Drill a Big hole on the side, and mount a fan blowing at the center of the motherboard. WORKS great and prob best caseflow you can ask for.

I am actually working on a case with REAL bullet holes. I just haven't taken anything down to the range yet, "i don't own a gun".

 

[mauiblue]

Thank you to all that has replied to my thread. You guys really gave me a few ideas on where I should be looking at in building my new PhotoShop box.

Zap:
Thank you for taking the time in posting. You have given me a lot to think about. I really would want to have a lot of RAM available to me and your suggested system is great.

Blain:
I so happened had the Core 2 Quad 9650 in my Newegg wish list for a while now (since last October). Too bad the board you listed only have 4 RAM slots. I saw the price for 4 x 4 gb RAM sticks and WOW. Maybe I could just make do with 8 gb of RAM with Vista 64 and PS CS4?

FixedMyXfi:

Yeah, I was going to recycle my Lian Li case for my build. The case is still in great condition and I have a lot of cooling fans in it. In regards to hard drives, I'll stick with what I have for now. BTW, that is a scream, having real bullet holes in a case. That is over the top.

Question for all - what is the better CPU? The Core i7 or the Core 2 Quad 9650? Or does it matter? Thanks again.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: mauiblue

Blain:
I so happened had the Core 3 Quad 9650 in my Newegg wish list for a while now (since last October). Too bad the board you listed only have 4 RAM slots. I saw the price for 4 x 4 gb RAM sticks and WOW. Maybe I could just make do with 8 gb of RAM with Vista 64 and PS CS4?

Question for all - what is the better CPU? The Core i7 or the Core 2 Quad 9650? Or does it matter?

The Core i7 920 (2.66GHz) is hardly any faster than a Q9650 (3GHz), in Premiere Pro, but actually slower than the Q9650 in Photoshop.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: mauiblue

Blain:
I so happened had the Core 3 Quad 9650 in my Newegg wish list for a while now (since last October). Too bad the board you listed only have 4 RAM slots. I saw the price for 4 x 4 gb RAM sticks and WOW. Maybe I could just make do with 8 gb of RAM with Vista 64 and PS CS4?

Question for all - what is the better CPU? The Core i7 or the Core 2 Quad 9650? Or does it matter?

The Core i7 920 (2.66GHz) is hardly any faster than a Q9650 (3GHz), in Premiere Pro, but actually slower than the Q9650 in Photoshop.

Yeah, but the i7 can have up to 12GB of ram, which would make a noticeable difference when working with large files.
For the same reason, a dual socket opteron system would be reasonable (16GB of ram), but probably too expensive.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Yeah, but the i7 can have up to 12GB of ram, which would make a noticeable difference when working with large files.

Are there any reviews that happen to benchmark only the amount of memory (4GB and higher), when testing with large files?
I know there are old reviews dealing with 2GB and under.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: Fox5
Yeah, but the i7 can have up to 12GB of ram, which would make a noticeable difference when working with large files.

Are there any reviews that happen to benchmark only the amount of memory (4GB and higher), when testing with large files?
I know there are old reviews dealing with 2GB and under.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2354

There's that, and I saw a posting from an Adobe person with 32GB of ram that it made working with multi gigabyte files 10x faster than 4GB of ram. That's pretty much the catch though, if you work with really large images, you'll get a huge speed up with more ram (provided you have 64 bit adobe products and a 64 bit OS), if you don't, then you won't.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Phenom II 955BE / Gigabyte 790x combo: $325

8 Gb G.Skill DDR2 1066MHz: $112

 

[elconejito]

To help you decide (or confuse you further) about whether to go i7 920 or Q9650 here is an AnandTech Photoshop CS4 benchmark

ArsTechnica has a review which may answer your large files question. It is actually examining photoshop 32-bit on the mac versus 64-bit windows, but you can skim through the numbers to get what you need. They compare the performance when dealing with small (50mb) and large (900mb) files. Basically, as long as you can keep it in RAM and not hit the scratch drive you are good to go.

I'm running the q9650 and Gigabyte UD3R that blain mentioned and am very happy with it. (using CS3 though)

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: elconejito
To help you decide (or confuse you further) about whether to go i7 920 or Q9650 here is an AnandTech Photoshop CS4 benchmark

ArsTechnica has a review which may answer your large files question. It is actually examining photoshop 32-bit on the mac versus 64-bit windows, but you can skim through the numbers to get what you need. They compare the performance when dealing with small (50mb) and large (900mb) files. Basically, as long as you can keep it in RAM and not hit the scratch drive you are good to go.

I'm running the q9650 and Gigabyte UD3R that blain mentioned and am very happy with it. (using CS3 though)

He's also using premiere, which is more memory intensive than photoshop.
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/
Right on adobe's website they mention a 227% performance increase from 64 bit. That's likely from being able to use more memory, ergo a 12GB core i7 system should perform reasonably better than an 8GB core 2 quad system.

 

[mauiblue]

Looks like I'm gravitating toward the 12 GB core i7 system more and more.

 

[elconejito]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Right on adobe's website they mention a 227% performance increase from 64 bit. That's likely from being able to use more memory, ergo a 12GB core i7 system should perform reasonably better than an 8GB core 2 quad system.

^^^ I'd agree with that

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: mauiblue
Looks like I'm gravitating toward the 12 GB core i7 system more and more.

Don't get sucked in by the marketing, cherry-picking and fluff.

To depict those huge performance gains in Premiere Pro CS4 from 32-bit to 64-bit this is what was running at the same time:

Consider the following workflow:

* After Effects in use for compositing
* After Effects compositions used in the Premiere Pro timeline via Dynamic Link
* Premiere Pro editing HD content
* AME encoding a Premiere Pro sequence in the background
* Encore burning a Blu-ray Disc using content imported via Dynamic Link from Premiere Pro.

I kept most projects about 1 minute in length, and all employed a mixture of picture-in-picture, greenscreen, color correction, and relatively common effects. With each format, I included greenscreen both natively within Premiere Pro and via Dynamic Link from After Effects. I created all projects using native format presets in Premiere Pro and rendered to either DVD-compatible MPEG-2 (DV) or Blu-ray-compatible MPEG-2 (all HD formats).

You couldn't cripple a 32-bit computer anymore than that with a hammer.


8Gb should be just dandy for your needs in Photoshop CS4. The maximum working PSD file size is 2Gb - the maximum allowable TIF file size is 4Gb. The app itself consumes around 2 Gb leaving at a minimum 2Gb for OS/background services.

You did not mention what version of Premiere Pro you are using but I will note the following comment made within the review:

Before getting started, let?s review one fact about Premiere Pro CS4 that didn?t quite make it up to the top of the new feature list: it requires a lot more memory for the same operations. For example, when rendering the HDV multicam project referred to below to Blu-ray-compatible MPEG-2 format, CS3 consumed 1.03GB of memory, while CS4 required 1.80GB.

As noted the i7 would be slower in Photoshop and faster in Premiere Pro - Here are some benchies in Premiere Pro CS3 with the i7 920, Q9650 and the Phenom 955 (with both DDR2 & DDR3).

 

[mauiblue]

Update:

After a bit of research on Newegg and reading this thread and others similiar to it, here is a list of items I am thinking of using in my new PS/Premiere CS4 box:

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz CPU
ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (I may double this and go 12 GB total)
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W PSU
EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 video card
HP 1140i DVD burner
Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 120mm SSO CPU Cooler
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM internal drive (for OS/primary drive)
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 case

I have a couple new 500 GB hard drives that I am going to use as storage and my Dell LCD monitor and NEC CRT monitor is still working fine. I was going to reuse my Lian Li case but I decided to keep my old system intact and still use it. I did go over my original budget of $1200 but oh well. The main thing what I chose are compatible and will give me the performance I want when dealing with large digital files. Any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[Fox5]

Raptors really aren't worth the cost. The 150GB raptor isn't even that fast anymore and might get beaten by some of the normal 500GB-1TB WD drives.
An SSD would be a worthwhile performance boost (maybe as a scratch drive for adobe rather than a main system drive) but they're still overly expensive.

 

[elconejito]

I think the WD Caviar Blacks might actually beat the 150GB Raptor in everything but random access (and even then I think it's close), which you shouldn't have much of since you're doing video (long streaming writes). So you could get one of those instead and pocket the cash. or use it towards the extra RAM.

 

[rivan]

As a heavy photoshop user, and someone who works on very large files daily, I'll say that much RAM isn't required. Unless you're working on billboards and semi wraps, you'll be more than fine with a 6G kit. With 6G in my mac, I've never run out yet - despite occasionally being forced to shrink files to get them within filesize limits.

If you're not printing anything larger than, say, 24x36 or so (and high rez to boot) then you simply do not need that much RAM.

That said, it's cheap these days and you have the budget.

 

[mauiblue]

Fox5, elconejito, rivan:

Thanks for the comments and opinions. I was a bit skeptical about the Raptor HD so now I just might go with the Western Digital offerings mentioned. SSD is fast but I hate to buy one and see the prices go down in the near future. I got got pissed off years ago when I bought one of the new thumb drives (half a gig) and it cost me about $80! I'll also stick with just 6 GB of RAM for now. The majority of files I work with are RAW files that are about 12 megs. Video for me runs about 1 hour in length at the most.

I'm still shaking the money tree at the moment so I'm not to much in a rush in pushing the "buy" button. Thanks again.