Senate opens flag-burning debate

[joshw10]

Originally posted by: alien42
i am appalled that we were a single vote away from losing part of our first amendment rights. this great nation seems to be corroding faster then i could ever imagine.

we weren't, it would still have to be approved by 3/4th of the states.

arlen spector said that burning the flag as expression has no social value. let's leave it up to the Republicans in Congress to decide for us what kind of expression has value.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: joshw10

Originally posted by: alien42
i am appalled that we were a single vote away from losing part of our first amendment rights. this great nation seems to be corroding faster then i could ever imagine.

we weren't, it would still have to be approved by 3/4th of the states.q]

It also says in the article that ALL 50 states have requested an amendment such as this.

Absolutely disgusting.

Evan Bayh, if you run for president including anymore Senate runs, you just lost my vote.:|

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: mc00
anyone has link to the list of senators the voted yes and no, I need to add those senator(for NYC) the vote yes and add them to my sh1t list..

i PROVIDED A FULL LIST ON THE FIRST PAGE

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Every senator who voted yes on this should be tarred and feathered and run out of our country :|

why?

 

[Tom]

You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

Nicely put.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Every senator who voted yes on this should be tarred and feathered and run out of our country :|

why?

Same reason that the 19 repugs voted for amnesty for the insurgents who killed americans.
It's moronic to vote like that. Flag burning is covered under free speech. And free speech so far, is still protected.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Every senator who voted yes on this should be tarred and feathered and run out of our country :|

why?

Same reason that the 19 repugs voted for amnesty for the insurgents who killed americans.
It's moronic to vote like that. Flag burning is covered under free speech. And free speech so far, is still protected.

some how I doubt that thats what they had in mind when they framed the principle of free speech.
since it has nothing to do with speech its an action.
If I were to adopt your thinking, I should be able to light crosses on peoples front lawns:roll:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

This is America, you dunce. We don't gotta respect nutten. Your idea of respect is sheep-lemming servile symbol worship. Take your respect and shove it up your ass. I don't gotta worship no stinking piece of cloth to value my freedom or respect that of my neighbor's. The fact I can wipe my ass with the flag is the reason I love it. Why not worship a golden calf.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

I have seen the flag burned. All I can tell you is the effect it had on me personally was to reveal to me how deep my love for my country is, and to be in awe of an idea so powerful, freedom of speech, that any attempt to disgrace it, would only make it stronger.

It's kind of like, you don't know what you have, until someone tries to take it away. It is in that moment that the power of the truth is revealed.

Have you ever heard 50,000 people spontaneously sing God Bless America ? I am in tears as I think about it. That event occurred because of an attempted flag burning incident at a baseball game. I consider it a better way to deal with the issue, than amending the Constitution.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

This is America, you dunce. We don't gotta respect nutten. Your idea of respect is sheep-lemming servile symbol worship. Take your respect and shove it up your ass. I don't gotta worship no stinking piece of cloth to value my freedom or respect that of my neighbor's. The fact I can wipe my ass with the flag is the reason I love it. Why not worship a golden calf.

I've always known your an idiot. Thank you for confirming it again.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Every senator who voted yes on this should be tarred and feathered and run out of our country :|

why?

Same reason that the 19 repugs voted for amnesty for the insurgents who killed americans.
It's moronic to vote like that. Flag burning is covered under free speech. And free speech so far, is still protected.

some how I doubt that thats what they had in mind when they framed the principle of free speech.
since it has nothing to do with speech its an action.
If I were to adopt your thinking, I should be able to light crosses on peoples front lawns:roll:

Not on THEIR front lawns. That's their private property. Should you be able to on your own? Certainly, the only concern the authorities should have is the fire itself.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

I have seen the flag burned. All I can tell you is the effect it had on me personally was to reveal to me how deep my love for my country is, and to be in awe of an idea so powerful, freedom of speech, that any attempt to disgrace it, would only make it stronger.

It's kind of like, you don't know what you have, until someone tries to take it away. It is in that moment that the power of the truth is revealed.

Have you ever heard 50,000 people spontaneously sing God Bless America ? I am in tears as I think about it. That event occurred because of an attempted flag burning incident at a baseball game. I consider it a better way to deal with the issue, than amending the Constitution.

Well I am not sure watching a flag burning would give me that feeling tom, but I respect your opinion, a million times over the crap moonbeam was dishing out.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

I have seen the flag burned. All I can tell you is the effect it had on me personally was to reveal to me how deep my love for my country is, and to be in awe of an idea so powerful, freedom of speech, that any attempt to disgrace it, would only make it stronger.

It's kind of like, you don't know what you have, until someone tries to take it away. It is in that moment that the power of the truth is revealed.

Have you ever heard 50,000 people spontaneously sing God Bless America ? I am in tears as I think about it. That event occurred because of an attempted flag burning incident at a baseball game. I consider it a better way to deal with the issue, than amending the Constitution.

Well I am not sure watching a flag burning would give me that feeling tom, but I respect your opinion, a million times over the crap moonbeam was dishing out.

If you don't understand what Moonbeam is saying, he's right, you are a dunce.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Donny Baker

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

I have seen the flag burned. All I can tell you is the effect it had on me personally was to reveal to me how deep my love for my country is, and to be in awe of an idea so powerful, freedom of speech, that any attempt to disgrace it, would only make it stronger.

It's kind of like, you don't know what you have, until someone tries to take it away. It is in that moment that the power of the truth is revealed.

Have you ever heard 50,000 people spontaneously sing God Bless America ? I am in tears as I think about it. That event occurred because of an attempted flag burning incident at a baseball game. I consider it a better way to deal with the issue, than amending the Constitution.

Well I am not sure watching a flag burning would give me that feeling tom, but I respect your opinion, a million times over the crap moonbeam was dishing out.

If you don't understand what Moonbeam is saying, he's right, you are a dunce.

thank you for your brilliant insight Donny and happy 13th birthday.

 

[Zebo]

Hey at least they are doing it legit instead of with illegal unconsitutional legislation like they do all the time making the BoR a shell of what they once were (Guns, premptive asset forfieture in IRS/Drug case, etc). Democracy and Constiution in action! I love it!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

This is America, you dunce. We don't gotta respect nutten. Your idea of respect is sheep-lemming servile symbol worship. Take your respect and shove it up your ass. I don't gotta worship no stinking piece of cloth to value my freedom or respect that of my neighbor's. The fact I can wipe my ass with the flag is the reason I love it. Why not worship a golden calf.

I've always known your an idiot. Thank you for confirming it again.

Ah, ya, Dunce sums it up Moonie.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

This is America, you dunce. We don't gotta respect nutten. Your idea of respect is sheep-lemming servile symbol worship. Take your respect and shove it up your ass. I don't gotta worship no stinking piece of cloth to value my freedom or respect that of my neighbor's. The fact I can wipe my ass with the flag is the reason I love it. Why not worship a golden calf.

I've always known your an idiot. Thank you for confirming it again.

That whistling noise you heard was the sound of Moonbeam's extremely insightful point sailing way over your head.

The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.



(PS. If you're going to call others an idiot, you might want to learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Might give your opinion a tad more credibility.)

 

[Zebo]

The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.

Nice Bow - Everyone should read twice and let it sink in. America really is unique in the world in this repect and greatest country ever because of it.

 

[senseamp]

Last I checked, my flag is my private property, and I'll do with it as I please. GOP needs to start respecting people's rights to free speech and private property.
Why do those incompetent Republican dimwits who are getting think they have the brains to be modifying the First Ammendment to the Constitution? Is there nothing they won't do to pander to the lowest common denominator.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Originally posted by: Zebo

The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.

Respect the ideas the flag represents, do not worship the flag itself. Some of the ideas the flag represents are freedom of speech, and freedom to demonstrate and protest. People burn the flag to oppose the ideas it represents.

There is more than one way to burn a flag...

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Tom
You cannot desecrate the flag by burning it, only by weakening the principals it stands for.

the flag is a symbol, representing your country and the principles it stands for.
Have you somehow strenghtened those principles by not thinking it worthy of respect?

This is America, you dunce. We don't gotta respect nutten. Your idea of respect is sheep-lemming servile symbol worship. Take your respect and shove it up your ass. I don't gotta worship no stinking piece of cloth to value my freedom or respect that of my neighbor's. The fact I can wipe my ass with the flag is the reason I love it. Why not worship a golden calf.

I've always known your an idiot. Thank you for confirming it again.

That whistling noise you heard was the sound of Moonbeam's extremely insightful point sailing way over your head.

The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.



(PS. If you're going to call others an idiot, you might want to learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Might give your opinion a tad more credibility.)

Oh I understood it fine. I just disagree with it.
And I will give you credit for at least trying to intelligently and calmly explain your viewpoint as I also gave Tom credit.
Even though you still had to play grammer police.

However MB's tirade wasn't worthy of being used for TP.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle

Originally posted by: Zebo

The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.

Respect the ideas the flag represents, do not worship the flag itself. Some of the ideas the flag represents are freedom of speech, and freedom to demonstrate and protest. People burn the flag to oppose the ideas it represents.

There is more than one way to burn a flag...

I disagree with you there. Most people who burn the flag are protesting against what the Government Does or has Done. It is certainly misguided and their message gets lost because of it, but their intention is usually not about opposing the Principles of the US.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
The flag is not America. It is a symbol, a symbol not just of America, but of America's most noble principles like liberty and justice and equality. The very first such liberty, from the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights is freedom of speech. It is fundamental to America's greatness. Compromising the principles America and the American flag represent doesn't show respect. It shows disdain, even outright contempt. It shows that you don't really believe in America's principles, that the symbol of liberty has somehow become more important than the actual liberty it symbolizes. As MB pointed out so eloquently, that is "servile symbol worship", not respect for America.

And furthermore, those same pandering, superficially-patriotic senators would do better to focus on the things that really do tarnish America's image. Baseless, pre-emptive wars based on a pile of fabricated BS. Torture. Indefinite imprisonment. Spying on its own citizens and the world's citizens. Flipping off the international community of virtually every single issue.

Those things hurt this country even more than burning some inanimate object.

As usual, our Congress and our Administration have their priorities ass-backwards.