Senator pushes for Universal Healthcare

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Great. Didnt take long to try and get this rammed through. Universal Healthcare! I dont know when healthcare became a RIGHT, but it seems it will be. Which is a horrible idea, as we know how well its working in Canada. Unfortunately the little guys will lap it up because it "feels good" that we're trying to help those poor downtrodden victims of society.

This sucks, I really hope this fails miserably.

Article

Senator wants universal health care plan



By MATTHEW DALY, Associated Press WriterWed Dec 13, 5:00 PM ET

Several business and labor leaders on Wednesday hailed a proposal to provide health care coverage to all Americans through a pool of private insurance plans.

A dozen years after Congress rejected a Clinton administration plan for universal health care, Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden (news, bio, voting record) offered a plan he said would provide affordable, private health care coverage for all Americans, except those covered through Medicare or the military.

"Employer-based coverage is melting away like a Popsicle on the sidewalk in August," Wyden said.

Wyden, a Democrat and a member of the Senate Finance health care subcommittee, said his plan would "guarantee health coverage for every American that is at least as good as members of Congress receive and can never be taken away."

The plan, dubbed the "Healthy Americans Act," would provide universal coverage for no more money than the country spends on health insurance today, Wyden said.

Wyden, a veteran of the 1990s health care battle, drew support from groups that have frequently opposed each other, including Andy Stern, international president of the Service Employees International Union, and Safeway Inc. CEO Steve Burd.

Stern called employer-based health coverage a relic of an industrial economy that is long gone, and said U.S. companies "cannot compete in a global economy when we put the price of health care on the cost of our products, and our competitor nations do not."

Stern said the health care system had failed to create jobs while adding to trade deficits and holding wages stagnant. For the nation's 46 million uninsured, "it is a failed moral policy as well," Stern said.

Burd said his California-based grocery chain had saved millions in health care costs by emphasizing preventative care and offering discounts for nonsmokers and others with lower health risks.

Left unchecked, health care costs will soon surpass net income for many companies, Burd said, calling Wyden's proposal a bold plan to restart a national dialogue on health care.

"Working together, business, labor, government, consumer groups and health care providers can collectively solve this problem," he said.

Wyden's plan is an outgrowth of work by the Citizens' Health Care Working Group, a 14-member panel that held meetings in 36 states and heard from 28,000 people about how to overhaul the nation's health care system.

The group, created in 2003 by legislation sponsored by Wyden and Sen. Orrin Hatch (news, bio, voting record), R-Utah, recommended that the government take steps to guarantee that all Americans have basic health insurance coverage by 2012.

Wyden said his new plan would allow workers to carry their health insurance from job to job without penalty. More efficient administration and more promotion of competition for health care plans, he said, would allow greater coverage while costing no more than the government is paying today for health insurance coverage.

The plan would require that employers "cash out" their existing health plans by terminating coverage and paying the amount saved directly to workers as increased wages. Workers then would be required to buy health insurance from a large pool of private plans.

After two years, companies would no longer have to pay the higher wages. Instead, Wyden said, they would pay into an insurance pool, based on annual revenues and the number of full-time workers.

At Wyden's request, the Lewin Group, a Virginia-based health care consulting firm, reviewed the plan. The consultant said the plan would reduce health spending by private employers by nearly three-quarters and save $1.4 trillion in total national health care spending over the next decade.

Increases in premium payments for individuals and families would be offset by higher wages and subsidies provided under the plan, the report said. As an example, Wyden cited a worker who earned $60,000 last year, and received about $12,000 worth of health care coverage.

The worker's health insurance would be terminated but his salary would increase to $72,000, which would cover his health care coverage. The plan would bar workers from buying a "bare-bones" health package and pocketing the savings, Wyden said.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
Hehe, "screw us". The lack of such a thing is screwing you over a whole lot more.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
FINALLY about time we are getting healthcare.

Remember, elections have their consequences, time to cash in on some of that "political capital" bush used for to screw us for some good for once. :thumbsup:
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,617
4,708
136
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Great. Didnt take long to try and get this rammed through. Universal Healthcare! I dont know when healthcare became a RIGHT.





Probably some misconstrued liberal interpretation of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", or that bleeding heart crap about "promoting the general welfare".

God, don't you just hate it when anyone thinks they have a "right" to anything!

You want rights? Move to another country you damn hippies; this is America!

Oh, your kids are sick? Well now they are likely to die because you were too stupid to have enough money to buy better insurance.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
If the big goal of you life is to get rich while working other people to death, then why would you want them to have any healthcare?? It would just take away from the bottom line, not to mention making the retirement program harder to fund.
 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
I agree. Why should health care be a right?

If you only make 20k a year, why should the gov't get the bill for 200K of doctor bills (an extreme case of course)... but seriously? All that is gonna do is fsck everything up. Some illegal immigrant shouldnt be allowed to just walk up and get free healthcare when their weed wacker cut their hand off.

There is a better way to go then universal health care. Impose laws requiring corporations to provide health care. And if youre a small business or self employed and you choose not to get it, you should pay a small fine - which is what I think mass now does.

If communism doesnt work, why would it work in the healt care industry?

Do you really want your hospital operating like the dmv???
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Typical response from a right-wing ideologue who has utterly lost any human perspective, moral perspective and common sense.

Government exists for the *serving of the needs of the public*, the welfare of the citizens, the benefit of the people, all those nice phrases.

Times change for rational people who are not locked into pretending the economy and technology are still in the 18th century. Our founding fathers looked forward to changes.

Medical care is something everyone needs available. Our economy gets the benefits of increased productivity by allowing some to be left out; the system not rewarding some people is built in to the way it works. Clearly, you are not one of the people who cannot afford medical insurance. Nor are you moral enough to care much about those who are.

When rational people look at the issue, they look at the costs to society of not having such insurance, the feasibility of providing it, the benefits of healthier people, the moral issue, and every industrialized nation on the planet but the US, and a majority of the public of our nation, has reached the same conclusion, that the government should offer universal health care. A right-wing ideologue, though, mocks the needs of the poor, mocks the need for healthcare, and demands the ideology be followed.

Some imagined catastrophe causes him to insist that healthcare must be kept as it is, while the tens of millions who need healthcare are ignored.

It's an utterly immoral, irrational approach. The debate points of the ideologue do not stand up. The ideologue is unaware of the influence of the propaganda of those who have a vested interest in the enormous profitability of the status quo continuing, and is unable to weigh that interest against the public's interest. Luckily, the ideologue is losing ground on this issue, and like countless others, society will progress in spite of him.
 

Enig101

Senior member
May 21, 2006
362
0
0
Everyone should have access to healthcare in an advanced country like America. I think it would be good to have a government solution.
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
the way i see it, is if we have universal health care, there will be burning piles of dead fetuses on every street corner of your neighborhood. sounds pretty good to me...
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
OOOHHHH NOESSSSSS!!! FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL?!? WHATEVER SHALL I DO?

It will be anything but free. Enjoy the higher taxes.

Bush will veto it if it ever passes.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
There are many things about our health care system that need to be fixed before the government (re: all of us) start picking up the tab.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
I hate to break it to you, but you are already paying for Universal Healthcare. It's called the Emergency Room, and people without Healthcare go there every time they have a problem whether it qualifies as an 'emergency' or not.

It's a really bad and inefficient way of doing things, I assure you.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
This sucks, I really hope this fails miserably.

why? for ideological reasons? the usa is just about the only first world country without universal health care. In the long run, it would save your country money and improve the overall health of the US population.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
I agree. Why should health care be a right?

If you only make 20k a year, why should the gov't get the bill for 200K of doctor bills (an extreme case of course)... but seriously? All that is gonna do is fsck everything up. Some illegal immigrant shouldnt be allowed to just walk up and get free healthcare when their weed wacker cut their hand off.

There is a better way to go then universal health care. Impose laws requiring corporations to provide health care. And if youre a small business or self employed and you choose not to get it, you should pay a small fine - which is what I think mass now does.

If communism doesnt work, why would it work in the healt care industry?

Do you really want your hospital operating like the dmv???

Health care can be a right when enough citizens in a country decide that it SHOULD be a right.

There is an entire universe between "communism" and unfettered capitalsim - the Europeans call it socialist democracy.

 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Specop 007
This sucks, I really hope this fails miserably.

why? for ideological reasons? the usa is just about the only first world country without universal health care. In the long run, it would save your country money and improve the overall health of the US population.

OP's answer to people who can't afford healthcare is a bullet through the head (and knowing P&N's peanut gallery, he's not alone in that opinion )
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
No offense guys, but while some minimum level of universal healthcare is certainly quite possible to be implemented in a beneficial manner, I have no doubt that the United States would fsck it up beyond all repair and only make the heathcare situation in the country worse.
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
What the article claims seems to be different than the brutal Canadian healthcare system.

Why do I have a feeling some Canadian RCMP bully rammed her traffic cone up your Yankee buttocks when you were younger?:laugh:

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
you're right, yllus, if the republicans did it. Hello, Katrina.

On the other hand, the democrats *could* do a great job at it. Admittedly, they might screw it up too.

"It will be anything but free. Enjoy the higher taxes. "

You forget all the benefits, of businesses freed of the costs and such. I suspect business could pay the full cost of this in taxes and come out ahead with the profit gouging reduced, not that it'd happen that businesses pay the tax.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Great. Didnt take long to try and get this rammed through. Universal Healthcare! I dont know when healthcare became a RIGHT, but it seems it will be. Which is a horrible idea, as we know how well its working in Canada. Unfortunately the little guys will lap it up because it "feels good" that we're trying to help those poor downtrodden victims of society.

This sucks, I really hope this fails miserably.

Article

Several business and labor leaders on Wednesday hailed a proposal to provide health care coverage to all Americans through a pool of private insurance plans.

A dozen years after Congress rejected a Clinton administration plan for universal health care, Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden (news, bio, voting record) offered a plan he said would provide affordable, private health care coverage for all Americans, except those covered through Medicare or the military.

The plan would require that employers "cash out" their existing health plans by terminating coverage and paying the amount saved directly to workers as increased wages. Workers then would be required to buy health insurance from a large pool of private plans.

At Wyden's request, the Lewin Group, a Virginia-based health care consulting firm, reviewed the plan. The consultant said the plan would reduce health spending by private employers by nearly three-quarters and save $1.4 trillion in total national health care spending over the next decade.

The keyword here is "private".
I don't see anything in there advocating "government".
I don't have a problem if it's private and remains private.

But then again...who knows? Maybe I'm not wearing my reading glasses.
 

randym431

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2003
1,270
1
0
Yea its amazing how people vote and believe in things AGAINST their own interest.
You probably don?t like the postal system, social security and electing our government officials. You must have a good job with benefits. What do you think would happen (and happens to thousands of American families daily) if you were laid off. And also, became ill and needed an hospital stay @ $100,000 a week. Its happens every day.

Or maybe next year, your company will decide they have no obligation to offer you health benefits at all, so they drop them. Then what???
That too is happening to thousands of Americans.

Oh, to the US Fed postal system. You'd probably like paying some private company $5 to mail one letter that costs you 39 cents now. And then, have to drive DAILY across town to some outlet to pick up your mail, that they would ALSO charge you for doing. No payee, no mailee. I bet you just HATE the fed gov agencies...

How about doing away with the US military, leaving you to fend for yourself with whatever weapons you have on hand in the closet.
And say bye bye to free radio, TV and police protection. Better hire you some private security to guard the neighborhood. No one is going to do it for free.
 
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