Senators try sabotage: Republicans Warn Iran Against Nuclear Deal With Obama

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Do these Senators like sending other people's kids to die that much? They couldn't even get a majority of senators to sign the letter. It seems like Politics is an ends that justify every means for the GOP.

WASHINGTON, March 9 (Reuters) - Republican senators warned Iran on Monday that any nuclear deal made with U.S. President Barack Obama could last only as long as he remains in office, in an unusual intervention into U.S. foreign policy-making.

The letter, signed by 46 U.S. senators, says Congress plays a role in ratifying international agreements and points out that Obama will leave office in January 2017, while many in Congress will remain in Washington long after that.

"We will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei," the letter read.

"The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of an agreement at any time," it read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/iran-nuclear-deal_n_6830308.html
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
Do these Senators like sending other people's kids to die that much? They couldn't even get a majority of senators to sign the letter. It seems like Politics is an ends that justify every means for the GOP.

Absolutely disgusting.

The legislature attempting to deliberately undermine our negotiations with a foreign power while articulating a separate foreign policy is incredibly shitty. They should be ashamed of themselves.

As conservatives seem to like the intent of the founders a lot, they should know that they would have thought Congress trying to sabotage the president's interactions with foreign nations by running a separate foreign policy was beyond the pale.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Quite shameful. Repub strategy has been to deny Obama any victories, regardless of the consequences to the nation. They're simply the party of opposition. Loyalty has nothing to do with it.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
And these are the same people who bitch and cry at every perceived action they feel is undermining congressional authority?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,584
7,645
136
It is natural to feel threatened by an agreement that paves the way for Iran, if you think you're going to somehow accomplish a different, more favorable outcome. The Senators should tell the people exactly how they plan on stopping Iran from going nuclear. Them and what army?

Because if war is not the solution... then maybe peace is.
And if we view them as sabotaging that...
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,880
34,834
136
If Congress wants another preemptive war this soon after Iraq and Afghanistan all their kids should be drafted into the first wave.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Quite shameful. Repub strategy has been to deny Obama any victories, regardless of the consequences to the nation. They're simply the party of opposition. Loyalty has nothing to do with it.

Victory? not only Israel, but Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are also very concerned with a nuclear armed Iran. obama is giving everything to Iran that they wanted. Ali Khamenei probably has an obama/biden sticker on his car.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,711
6,198
126
Did I mention that the CBD is dangerous to the nation, that, in a desire for the team to win it will turn against the interests of the nation and that is why it is a defect? Yes, I think I have. We need to find a cure or we will continue to screw ourselves. We have gone mad as a nation.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Victory? not only Israel, but Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are also very concerned with a nuclear armed Iran. obama is giving everything to Iran that they wanted. Ali Khamenei probably has an obama/biden sticker on his car.

You do know there are 5 other countries negotiating this.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,880
34,834
136
Victory? not only Israel, but Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are also very concerned with a nuclear armed Iran. obama is giving everything to Iran that they wanted. Ali Khamenei probably has an obama/biden sticker on his car.

Short of preemptively using strategic nuclear weapons on them or a full scale ground invasion there is no tenable option to keep Iran from getting a weapon outside diplomacy, which at best will probably keep them at the breakout threshold.

How do you like to the options?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
Victory? not only Israel, but Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are also very concerned with a nuclear armed Iran. obama is giving everything to Iran that they wanted. Ali Khamenei probably has an obama/biden sticker on his car.

The UK, Germany, France, China, and Russia seem to be okay with what Obama is doing. Does this in any way alter your thinking?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Pointing out that an executive order without congressional approval can be undone by another executive order...

is sabotage?

Wow you guys are desperate...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's standard right wing propaganda. It begins with a leap of faith to "nuclear weapons program" & proceeds from there, as if nuclear weapons can somehow be produced w/o weapons grade materials.

The point of any agreement is to provide safeguards & verification that weapons grade materials are not produced while allowing for production of fuel grade materials.

No weapons grade materials, no weapons. The rest matters not at all.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
Pointing out that an executive order without congressional approval can be undone by another executive order...

is sabotage?

Wow you guys are desperate...

Sending letters to the leaders of foreign nations suggesting that your party will undermine any agreement they happen to reach with our country is pretty obviously sabotage.

I have no idea why any person would defend this sort of behavior.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
You do know there are 5 other countries negotiating this.

Besides Russia and China (both of which provide Iran with military hardware) which country has the power and influence to control iran's nuclear ambitions? And its not just nukes that have Iran's neighbors worried. Other middle east countries fear reduced sanctions will lead to an increase in Iran's conventional military strength. Iran has already been in Iraq for who knows how long. I doubt they will leave anytime soon.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Sending letters to the leaders of foreign nations suggesting that your party will undermine any agreement they happen to reach with our country is pretty obviously sabotage.

I have no idea why any person would defend this sort of behavior.

They never said their goal was to undermine any agreement. An executive order can be undone by a future executive order, which is true.

The President acting on his own terms is not required to be fully supported by congress, which is also true.

"We will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei," the letter read.

You're letting your personal biases fill in the gaps between what was said and what you believe was meant. There is no undermining, there is no sabotage. It all depends on if they agree or disagree with what is being negotiated... which they are not in the loop on what is being negotiated to provide any further definitive opinion on.
 
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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
The UK, Germany, France, China, and Russia seem to be okay with what Obama is doing. Does this in any way alter your thinking?

Germany is a big trading partner with Iraq. China and Russia are selling the Iranians military tech. France has been making trade deals with Iran and would probably love to start selling cars there again. And the UK who knows what is going on with them.

No it does not alter my thinking one iota.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,682
7,181
136
Besides Russia and China (both of which provide Iran with military hardware) which country has the power and influence to control iran's nuclear ambitions? And its not just nukes that have Iran's neighbors worried. Other middle east countries fear reduced sanctions will lead to an increase in Iran's conventional military strength. Iran has already been in Iraq for who knows how long. I doubt they will leave anytime soon.

I feel there's some logic in your reasoning. But what I'd really like to know is what you think is the best way for the rest of the world to keep Iran from producing nuclear weapons as an alternative to what our administration is doing at present.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
It's standard right wing propaganda. It begins with a leap of faith to "nuclear weapons program" & proceeds from there, as if nuclear weapons can somehow be produced w/o weapons grade materials.

The point of any agreement is to provide safeguards & verification that weapons grade materials are not produced while allowing for production of fuel grade materials.

No weapons grade materials, no weapons. The rest matters not at all.

You don't know much about the details of the obama's deal with Iran do you? Maybe obama does not either and that is part of the problem. Negotiations intially tried to eliminate Iran's nuclear infrastructure.... but now it is basically about how long wil Iran have to wait for inspections to stop.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Short of preemptively using strategic nuclear weapons on them or a full scale ground invasion there is no tenable option to keep Iran from getting a weapon outside diplomacy, which at best will probably keep them at the breakout threshold.

How do you like to the options?

You can't talk sense to the ravers. They assume a nuclear armed Iran in the absence of nuclear weapons grade material production. They assume that Iran will behave the same way as Israel who was never subjected to any meaningful sort of inspection regime by the IAEA.

Iran is already at the breakout threshold & have been for some while. They demonstrated that with their hardened Fordow facility, which is why the US had to adjust our approach, back away from total prohibition of nuclear fuel production. That demand flies in the face of reality. Anybody with a lick of sense knows it.

If Iran will agree to a rigorous inspection & verification regime by the IAEA there's no honest reason to not move forward with an agreement. It's the best we'll get.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,880
34,834
136
You don't know much about the details of the obama's deal with Iran do you? Maybe obama does not either and that is part of the problem. Negotiations intially tried to eliminate Iran's nuclear infrastructure.... but now it is basically about how long wil Iran have to wait for inspections to stop.

Ok, you can negotiate a better deal than the president.

Tell us how.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,584
7,645
136
I feel there's some logic in your reasoning. But what I'd really like to know is what you think is the best way for the rest of the world to keep Iran from producing nuclear weapons as an alternative to what our administration is doing at present.
War is the only option to stop nuclear proliferation.

This country does not want another war, so Iran gets what it wants. Only question is what do we get out of it? Obama is trying to work that out. These Senators are under some delusion Obama's peace deal is something to be sabotaged.

Given the stakes, I feel these Senators should put up or shut up. Place their cards on the table and sell us their war plan. They can make it the subject of the next Presidential Election!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,514
136
They never said their goal was to undermine any agreement. An executive order can be undone by a future executive order, which is true.

The President acting on his own terms is not required to be fully supported by congress, which is also true.

You're letting your personal biases fill in the gaps between what was said and what you believe was meant. There is no undermining, there is no sabotage. It all depends on if they agree or disagree with what is being negotiated... which they are not in the loop on what is being negotiated to provide any further definitive opinion on.

You can't be serious, but if you are you are definitely allowing your personal bias to cloud your judgment.

Sending this letter has literally one purpose: to attempt to undermine Iran's confidence that the U.S. will adhere to the terms of any deal. This much is completely obvious.

Maybe it would help to more fully explore your idea. Can you tell me why congress sent that letter, if not to undermine negotiations?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
You don't know much about the details of the obama's deal with Iran do you? Maybe obama does not either and that is part of the problem. Negotiations intially tried to eliminate Iran's nuclear infrastructure.... but now it is basically about how long wil Iran have to wait for inspections to stop.

Since the deal isn't done yet the same applies to you.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
I feel there's some logic in your reasoning. But what I'd really like to know is what you think is the best way for the rest of the world to keep Iran from producing nuclear weapons as an alternative to what our administration is doing at present.

I just mentioned in another response that negotiations have turned largely in Iran's favor. Initially there was an attempt to get rid of all the infrastructure supporting iran's enrichment of uranium. Now the deal hinges on how long Iran would have to wait before the country would be out from the watchful eye of the IAEA. on top of that reducing sanctions.

Sanctions are keeping Iran somewhat in check. There are not many other options because of the standing on the U.S. in the world at the moment. Iran is getting a lot of what it neeeds from our own negotiating partners... with that they are peddling influence in Iraq. The U.S. has given up so much to China we have little influence on their interactions with Iran.

Exactly what needs to be done beyond sanctions... well I don't want to see a war on another front... but I do know that giving into Iran's demands is not the way to go.
 
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