Senators Want Adults Only Rating For Manhunt 2

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: BD2003
And honestly, there are far more important issues at stake in this election than a crap video game. If this controversy is the deciding factor for your vote, you need a reality check, fast.

Definitely true. I know this isn't P&N but if someone is basing their vote simply on this topic maybe they need to increase the voting age.

Heh, good point. I hate one-issue voters, especially when they're relatively insignificant topics and moral issues. But as a libertarian, I see this as yet another attack on our liberty by the major party politicians. I wouldn't have voted for any of these clowns before, and this just reinforces that decision.

But thats exactly what it isnt. Nowhere are they saying you shouldnt be allowed to play this game. Its Nintendo that is effectively saying that you cant, because theyre the ones who won't license AO titles. You might consider this an ad hoc call for a ban, but I'd find it highly doubtful that this is anything but posturing on the part of those senators.

At the end of the day, the finger and backlash should be pointed at the real censors here - nintendo. Vote with your dollar if youre so concerned, but for the love of all that is holy, find something, ANYTHING more important to vote about than a trashy game. If anything, getting manhunt removed from shelves would be doing most people a favor.

A unified rating system is a good idea, as well.

 

[Narmer]

There's nothing wrong with the government stepping in to look after the welfare of its citizens. You people have no one to blame but the console makers since they refuse to have AO titles on their system.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: BD2003
And honestly, there are far more important issues at stake in this election than a crap video game. If this controversy is the deciding factor for your vote, you need a reality check, fast.

Definitely true. I know this isn't P&N but if someone is basing their vote simply on this topic maybe they need to increase the voting age.

Heh, good point. I hate one-issue voters, especially when they're relatively insignificant topics and moral issues. But as a libertarian, I see this as yet another attack on our liberty by the major party politicians. I wouldn't have voted for any of these clowns before, and this just reinforces that decision.

But thats exactly what it isnt. Nowhere are they saying you shouldnt be allowed to play this game. Its Nintendo that is effectively saying that you cant, because theyre the ones who won't license AO titles. You might consider this an ad hoc call for a ban, but I'd find it highly doubtful that this is anything but posturing on the part of those senators.

At the end of the day, the finger and backlash should be pointed at the real censors here - nintendo. Vote with your dollar if youre so concerned, but for the love of all that is holy, find something, ANYTHING more important to vote about than a trashy game. If anything, getting manhunt removed from shelves would be doing most people a favor.

A unified rating system is a good idea, as well.

Self-regulation by the movie and video game industries was done to avoid regulation by the government. I don't think they have any business using their positions of power to influence the rating process.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Narmer
There's nothing wrong with the government stepping in to look after the welfare of its citizens. You people have no one to blame but the console makers since they refuse to have AO titles on their system.

You mean the government is trying to be the nanny for all the parents? Why can't parents just wise up and see what they're getting for their children or what they're watching?

 

[biggestmuff]

It's typical. I wonder if they've ever seen the game being played in person or just have read really well crafted letters admonishing the game.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
It's typical. I wonder if they've ever seen the game being played in person or just have read really well crafted letters admonishing the game.

It doesnt matter. Perception is everything.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Narmer
There's nothing wrong with the government stepping in to look after the welfare of its citizens. You people have no one to blame but the console makers since they refuse to have AO titles on their system.

You mean the government is trying to be the nanny for all the parents? Why can't parents just wise up and see what they're getting for their children or what they're watching?

That's a weak argument considering there's a rating system for movies as well and no one complains about it. Furthermore, there are countless other government regulations in spite of parents being around. Again, take your complaints to the console manufacturers considering they practice self-censorship on this issue.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Narmer
There's nothing wrong with the government stepping in to look after the welfare of its citizens. You people have no one to blame but the console makers since they refuse to have AO titles on their system.

You mean the government is trying to be the nanny for all the parents? Why can't parents just wise up and see what they're getting for their children or what they're watching?

That's a weak argument considering there's a rating system for movies as well and no one complains about it. Furthermore, there are countless other government regulations in spite of parents being around. Again, take your complaints to the console manufacturers considering they practice self-censorship on this issue.

Ever see the "Saw" movies? I've never seen anything in a video game that is as violent as some of the scenes in those movies. Yet they only get an R rating. Ever see American History X? Here I am, and adult, and I can't even keep my eyes open during the curb scene. I've never watched that scene. Can't handle it. But only an R rating. That's why this bothers people - the standards aren't consistent.

The console manufacturers have a right to prohibit AO games on their system, but I have a problem with politicians who try to take advantage of that to effectively ban or force the alteration of the content of a game.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Narmer
There's nothing wrong with the government stepping in to look after the welfare of its citizens. You people have no one to blame but the console makers since they refuse to have AO titles on their system.

You mean the government is trying to be the nanny for all the parents? Why can't parents just wise up and see what they're getting for their children or what they're watching?

That's a weak argument considering there's a rating system for movies as well and no one complains about it. Furthermore, there are countless other government regulations in spite of parents being around. Again, take your complaints to the console manufacturers considering they practice self-censorship on this issue.

Ever see the "Saw" movies? I've never seen anything in a video game that is as violent as some of the scenes in those movies. Yet they only get an R rating. Ever see American History X? Here I am, and adult, and I can't even keep my eyes open during the curb scene. I've never watched that scene. Can't handle it. But only an R rating. That's why this bothers people - the standards aren't consistent.

The console manufacturers have a right to prohibit AO games on their system, but I have a problem with politicians who try to take advantage of that to effectively ban or force the alteration of the content of a game.

What does your personal preference have to do with this discussion?

The AO == R in movies. The law clearly says that makers of televisions, dvd players, vcrs, etc... must show all contents, even those that may be reprehensible to some in society. Don't you find it odd that console makers get an exception to this? It would be against the law for a tv not to receive certain signals, why is a machine any different? Perhaps you and the politicians should fight against this self-censorship.

Again, I find it odd that you people applaud self-censorship but cry foul when the government tries to protect children from harm.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Again, I find it odd that you people applaud self-censorship but cry foul when the government tries to protect children from harm.

The point of my post is to ask why they even have to which you conveniently ignored pointing out other media having ratings yet the rating systems aren't even equivalent anyway.

Oh and mugs, the reason they think games are worse is because you actively make a choice to commit acts in games :roll:.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Narmer

What does your personal preference have to do with this discussion?

I was giving examples of scenes in R-rated movies that are worse than any content I've seen in video games... try to keep up.

The AO == R in movies. The law clearly says that makers of televisions, dvd players, vcrs, etc... must show all contents, even those that may be reprehensible to some in society. Don't you find it odd that console makers get an exception to this? It would be against the law for a tv not to receive certain signals, why is a machine any different? Perhaps you and the politicians should fight against this self-censorship.

No, AO == NC-17. M == R. You can't honestly think AO is comparable to R. In terms of content they may be similar, but in terms of the consequences of the rating they are far from similar - and that's the crux of the issue.

Again, I find it odd that you people applaud self-censorship but cry foul when the government tries to protect children from harm.

Are you kidding me? What country are you from?

Originally posted by: Narmer
That's a weak argument considering there's a rating system for movies as well and no one complains about it. Furthermore, there are countless other government regulations in spite of parents being around. Again, take your complaints to the console manufacturers considering they practice self-censorship on this issue.

Pay attention to the discussion... there is no issue with the existence of a rating system, the issue is with government officials using their position of authority to try to assert influence over the rating system. And the huge disparity between what is acceptable in movies and what is acceptable in video games.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Narmer

What does your personal preference have to do with this discussion?

I was giving examples of scenes in R-rated movies that are worse than any content I've seen in video games... try to keep up.

The AO == R in movies. The law clearly says that makers of televisions, dvd players, vcrs, etc... must show all contents, even those that may be reprehensible to some in society. Don't you find it odd that console makers get an exception to this? It would be against the law for a tv not to receive certain signals, why is a machine any different? Perhaps you and the politicians should fight against this self-censorship.

No, AO == NC-17. M == R. You can't honestly think AO is comparable to R. In terms of content they may be similar, but in terms of the consequences of the rating they are far from similar - and that's the crux of the issue.

Again, I find it odd that you people applaud self-censorship but cry foul when the government tries to protect children from harm.

Are you kidding me? What country are you from?

Originally posted by: Narmer
That's a weak argument considering there's a rating system for movies as well and no one complains about it. Furthermore, there are countless other government regulations in spite of parents being around. Again, take your complaints to the console manufacturers considering they practice self-censorship on this issue.

Pay attention to the discussion... there is no issue with the existence of a rating system, the issue is with government officials using their position of authority to try to assert influence over the rating system. And the huge disparity between what is acceptable in movies and what is acceptable in video games.

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Yeah, see that's the thing - this is NOT their job.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Yeah, see that's the thing - this is NOT their job.

Then what is? To make laws that....dont protect us? Whether or not you like that law, or what they try to use their political influence to accomplish is worthwhile is up to you and thus your vote, but thats the point.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Yeah, see that's the thing - this is NOT their job.

Then what is? To make laws that....dont protect us? Whether or not you like that law, or what they try to use their political influence to accomplish is worthwhile is up to you and thus your vote, but thats the point.

The responsibilities of the federal government are listed in their entirety in the constitution.

 

[purbeast0]

Hostel and Saw movies can get R ratings ... but Manhunt deserves an AO rating? (equivalent of NC-17 in the movies)

I think that is ridiculous.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Yeah, see that's the thing - this is NOT their job.

Then what is? To make laws that....dont protect us? Whether or not you like that law, or what they try to use their political influence to accomplish is worthwhile is up to you and thus your vote, but thats the point.

The responsibilities of the federal government are listed in their entirety in the constitution.

Well, it's certainly simpler for the federal government to decide this rather than a hodge-podge of laws from different states. If you people have issues with these debates, let yourselves be heard in the process rather than trying to vote these politicians out of office once they've passed the laws.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm quite surprised there's still all this fuss even though the entire game was censored. From what I've seen it ends up being less visually disturbing than the first as you don't see everything.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, it's certainly simpler for the federal government to decide this rather than a hodge-podge of laws from different states. If you people have issues with these debates, let yourselves be heard in the process rather than trying to vote these politicians out of office once they've passed the laws.

All states that have tried to get laws about games onto the books have been struck down due to that funny thing called the "constitution". If the federal government is allowed to do it, it just proves, once again, that there is something seriously wrong with our government.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

How much the media cares about this game
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
How much Gamers care
|----------|

Credit to Penny Arcade
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/11/02

 

[skace]

Giving Manhunt 2 an AO rating would be hypocrisy at it's finest. If it gets an AO rating, every action movie ever made needs to be revisited and re-rated until the AO, X and NC-17 ratings are being used liberally for anything with violence. I don't know how many of you commenting have actually played Manhunt 2. It looks like a pretty violent game at face value, but the fact is that Rockstar self-censored the game into oblivion, it is no longer what it was originally intended to be (a game for people who watch crap like hostel) and is now a pretty tame game. Senators who bring up this shit show how ignorant they are on a given topic and make me question their intelligence on other topics.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
How much the media cares about this game
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
How much Gamers care
|----------|

Credit to Penny Arcade
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/11/02

Penny Arcade is so clever... and you are too for quoting them.

 

[Brule]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Disturbing.... wow.

That's not how a constitutional republic operates. Officials are not all powerful, they are given certain limits within which they must work. Banning media is not one of their granted abilities and (unfortunately) an AO rating is a ban for all real purposes. The console companies have every right to determine what games they want and don't want on their consoles, and through their own rating system they "want" Manhunt 2 on their systems.

+1 on changing the way ratings work and for consoles utilizing the AO rating.

 

[bullbert]

Originally posted by: Brule

Originally posted by: Narmer

Your complaining about government officials doing their job? It's their job to look after your welfare. Let them debate this and reach their own conclusion, hopefully with your input. Let's face it, games are become very violent and they are just doing what people ask of them.

Disturbing.... wow.

That's not how a constitutional republic operates. Officials are not all powerful, they are given certain limits within which they must work. Banning media is not one of their granted abilities and (unfortunately) an AO rating is a ban for all real purposes. The console companies have every right to determine what games they want and don't want on their consoles, and through their own rating system they "want" Manhunt 2 on their systems.

+1 on changing the way ratings work and for consoles utilizing the AO rating.

Issue #1: Banning media
[/sarcasm on]
But, but, but, I was taught in Public School that it was Government's job to legislate morality. No drinking. No drugs. No gambling (except through Government required investment and insurance scams^H^H^H^H^Hprograms). No voilence in media.
[/sarcasm off]

Issue #2: console companies have every right to determine what games they want and don't want on their consoles!?!?!
No, no, no, no, no. That is just the result of a bought-and-paid-for judicial decision to allow monopolies on hardware consoles cartidge interfaces. Cartidges are no longer used, but the courts allow the monopolies to continue. Should TV manufacturer be allowed to determine that DVDs you display on them. Should Bill Gates be allowed to determine that only the Microsoft verision of Solartire be allowed to run on your PC (as in no Hoyle, no Bicycle, etc). I hope you come to understand how rediculous your statement was.

 

[Brule]

Originally posted by: bullbert

Issue #2: console companies have every right to determine what games they want and don't want on their consoles!?!?!
No, no, no, no, no. That is just the result of a bought-and-paid-for judicial decision to allow monopolies on hardware consoles cartidge interfaces. Cartidges are no longer used, but the courts allow the monopolies to continue. Should TV manufacturer be allowed to determine that DVDs you display on them. Should Bill Gates be allowed to determine that only the Microsoft verision of Solartire be allowed to run on your PC (as in no Hoyle, no Bicycle, etc). I hope you come to understand how rediculous your statement was.

Never said I liked it or agreed with it, but it's their right as they created the machine and they set the rules. But that's another issue on a tangent I'd be happy to discuss in another thread. The point I was trying to make is that console makers use the "AO" rating as a death sentence and by allowing an "M" rating they imply their acceptance of the game on their console. Therefore the "AO" rating is a ban not by gamers, not by parents, not even by the game/hardware companies, but by nanny government hands.

The entire "M" to "AO" change is a joke if they really cared about the ratings and ages. Maybe MH2 is warping 17 year old minds at an alarming rate but once they hit 18 all is well.