Senior officer of Fallujah Brigade disputes U.S. airstrike target

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-06-20-iraq-airstrike_x.htm

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) ? A senior officer of the U.S.-backed Fallujah Brigade on Sunday disputed U.S. claims that an American airstrike had hit a safehouse of terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's network.
The Health Ministry said at least 16 people were killed in the attack Saturday; witnesses put the number of dead at least 20, including women and children.

Col. Mohammed Awad said members of the Fallujah Brigade had investigated the site and "affirmed to us that the inhabitants of the houses were ordinary families including women, children and elders."

"There was no sign that foreigners have lived in the house," Awad said.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, coalition deputy operations chief, told reporters Saturday that multiple intelligence sources reported that the house was used by the al-Zarqawi network, which U.S. officials believe operates in Fallujah.

The discrepant versions of the attack could strain relations between the Americans and the Iraqi force established last month to take responsibility for law and order in Fallujah after the end of the three-week Marine siege.

Marines besieged Fallujah in April after four American security contractors were killed in an ambush in the city and their bodies mutilated. Ten Marines and hundreds of Iraqis, many of them civilians, died before the siege was lifted and security was handed over to the Fallujah Brigade.

Al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born militant thought to have ties to al-Qaeda, has been blamed for a string of car bombs across Iraq, including a blast Thursday that killed 35 people and wounded 145 at an Iraqi military recruiting center in Baghdad.


http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=6E2040E2-F7DD-404D-8C50B5AD2AF7D63C
Iraqi military officers in the city of Fallujah say there is no sign any insurgents were in a house flattened during a U.S. attack that reportedly killed at least 20 civilians.
The Iraqi officers say Sunday women and children were among those killed, but an investigation produced no evidence foreign insurgents had used the house.


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5463967
Falluja's police chief and a senior officer in the Falluja Brigade in charge of security in the fiercely anti-U.S. town denied that foreign fighters had operated from the house.

"We inspected the damage, we looked through the bodies of the women and children and elderly. This was a family," Brigadier Nouri Aboud of the Falluja Brigade told Reuters.

"There is no sign of foreigners having lived in the house. Zarqawi and his men have no presence in Falluja."
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Yesterday's raid on Fallujah is troubling because of the raw memories it has stirred up of the hundreds of Iraqi civilians killed there by the Americans in April. It bore the hallmark of a revenge attack straight out of the Israeli book - engendering an incensed reaction similar to that of Palestinians on the receiving of Israeli air raids in Gaza and the West Bank.

The United States has blamed the suspected al-Qa'ida operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi for the recent car bombings, including Thursday's attack in Baghdad. US officials have also been saying for several days that they suspect al-Zarqawi is hiding out in Fallujah.

The impact of these events on US public opinion remains to be seen. Media coverage of the Fallujah raid was relatively muted yesterday, in part because the US military refused to comment or give details of what happened and in part because the news was dominated by the beheading of the kidnapped military contractor Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia.

The Independent

So was this strike simply more "collateral damage" or was it premeditated murder? Bombing figments of the imagination and ending up killing women and children can hardly be seen as a winning strategy. Go Bush go :|
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Col. Mohammed Awad said members of the Fallujah Brigade had investigated the site and "affirmed to us that the inhabitants of the houses were ordinary families including women, children and elders."

News flash!! It was a safe house It is supposed to have ordinary looking occupants. Fact is there is a large portion of that towns population that are active participants in the militant movement there. Pretty sure that Col Awads intel isn't nearly as comprehensive as Gen Kimmits. Intersesting to see how the media automatically characterizes this as fact when the fact is they don't really know anything about the strike for certain.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
The fact is that women and children were killed in the airstrike. The rest (McKimmit and NesuD) is spin. McKimmit has zero crediblity.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: NesuD
Col. Mohammed Awad said members of the Fallujah Brigade had investigated the site and "affirmed to us that the inhabitants of the houses were ordinary families including women, children and elders."

News flash!! It was a safe house It is supposed to have ordinary looking occupants. Fact is there is a large portion of that towns population that are active participants in the militant movement there. Pretty sure that Col Awads intel isn't nearly as comprehensive as Gen Kimmits. Intersesting to see how the media automatically characterizes this as fact when the fact is they don't really know anything about the strike for certain.

How do you explain this?

an investigation produced no evidence foreign insurgents had used the house.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
O.K. - This was a premptive strike, any one of those alledged 'Victoms'
may have gone on to live a non-productive life, where some painfull
psychological event may have set them off in a Blood Vengence, a
centuries old tradition in that part of the acient cradel of civilization.

By smiting them now premptively, we have eliminated a possible - but
unproved threat, that may or may not have ever materialized.

On the other hand we have given every cousin, uncle, nephew, and aunt
to those killed, along with other friends and family a ticket to hell.
Our Hell. That's about a 25 : 1 ratio of enemies earned against us.
 

11thHour

Senior member
Feb 20, 2004
796
1
0
I think the moral to the story is to never trust our military leaders to account for anything. They are as bad as the bush administration in spreading disinformation and looking the other way when they are wrong.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: 11thHour
I think the moral to the story is to never trust our military leaders to account for anything. They are as bad as the bush administration in spreading disinformation and looking the other way when they are wrong.


Yes, isn't it amazing that no mistakes have been made.
 

AnImuS

Senior member
Sep 28, 2001
939
0
0
why didnt they just raid the house using special ops?
Cheaper then the missiles too.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
From the looks of this thread, there's gonna be lots of spitting at the troops when they return home.

Question: Lets say Kerry wins the election and we bomb another house full of "women and children"..... any of you morons gonna decree that whomever Commander Joe is at the time who claims otherwise has "zero credibility" and sarcastically reply about the "World's finest at work...."

IMHO Bugs is no worse than the rest of you assholes. Fsck you.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Corn
From the looks of this thread, there's gonna be lots of spitting at the troops when they return home.

Question: Lets say Kerry wins the election and we bomb another house full of "women and children"..... any of you morons gonna decree that whomever Commander Joe is at the time who claims otherwise has "zero credibility" and sarcastically reply about the "World's finest at work...."

IMHO Bugs is no worse than the rest of you assholes. Fsck you.

I don't get what you are trying to say here, are you saying that it doesn't matter if this was a mistake or not or are you saying that either way no one should ever know about it?

If it was a mistake, should they admit it and try to explain why it happened or just ignore it?


To answer your question, i won't blame this on anyone who was given orders to bomb, i would however question the intelligence and if it was enough to order the strike on.

Kerry, Clinton, Reagan, Bush or whoever doesn't matter to me, faulty intelligence is just that, and to not verify it properly but order a strike based on faulty intelligence will make me worried every time it happens.

Bugs is just another fundie freak, no better than his muslim fundie freak brothers, they all want pain and misery for the other side and they are all wackos.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
Originally posted by: AnImuS
why didnt they just raid the house using special ops?
Cheaper then the missiles too.

Its not a very safe plan. You gotta think of the extraction plan. If there was targets in the house, how are they gonna get themselves and the captured out of Fallujah alive? It might very well turn into Black Hawk Down again.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
I remember from reading an article last week something about Special Forces slipping into Fallujah to track down Zarqawi. And now the news of an airstrike. I wonder if they are connected....hmmm....
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Corn
From the looks of this thread, there's gonna be lots of spitting at the troops when they return home.

Question: Lets say Kerry wins the election and we bomb another house full of "women and children"..... any of you morons gonna decree that whomever Commander Joe is at the time who claims otherwise has "zero credibility" and sarcastically reply about the "World's finest at work...."

IMHO Bugs is no worse than the rest of you assholes. Fsck you.

You are just one sad, bitter mound of human flesh.

WTF happened to you as a child to make you such a bitter prick?
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Hmmm, I wonder if this incident is just like that "wedding" ceremony that was bombed a few monthes back. You remember, the one where all the anti-war dorks were up in arms about. Here's a link.

KK
 
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