Serious Beef with GTA4... and Gamespot

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
I'm 35% done with the game and over 20 hours into it, and so far, it is still disappointing considering the praise.

My background, as far as GTA is concerned, is that I've played both Vice City and San Andreas on the PC. They were not bad. I've never played GTA on consoles before, but I have played Saint's Row, which was awesome.

Gamespot is full of CRAP. Sometimes their scores are strange, but this time, they really exaggerated. They managed to give it a 10, which is a PERFECT SCORE, but the say in the video review that the game isn't perfect and that there isn't much new material added compared to previous games. It's not just Gamespot though. Look at Metacritic.com, I see a lot of hundreds. When I read the paragraph under each score I begin to wonder if they are talking about this same game.

In the review from Game Revolution, the author points out that we need to play through 15-20 hours before we experience the good stuff. There were some interesting missions and story elements, but they are few and far apart.

I've seen many games get a really low score from reviewers because it doesn't offer anything new to improve the genre or it doesn't do anything that we haven't seen before. I feel this way about GTA4.

The following are some other thoughts.

-Initially, the graphics were very disappointing. After a certain, relatively close point, the graphics get so blurry that it looks like a wall, and I didn?t get a sense that the city has depth. The first island you play in felt empty, but when you get to the middle island, a Manhattan clone, it starts to feel more like a real city. I've played the game for so long that I've gotten slightly used to the blurriness, although it still bothers me plenty. Then I started to appreciate the graphics more and noticed that at times, the realistic visuals can be breathtaking, especially when you get into the helicopter.

-Because my brother has the 360 version, I became jealous of how much better it looked. Although the PS3 has better shadows, the 360 has a sharper image and has the blur wall pushed back farther to an acceptable range.

-Trying to learn the controls from the menu is difficult because they keep changing because there are many function to each button. Controlling the character is cumbersome, especially when using the camera (right stick) while moving. It is annoying because the camera keeps trying to recenter itself. It makes it difficult to site-see.

-Pressing start and interacting with the map is annoyingly sluggish and takes some getting used to. In fact, the whole map thing is annoying. Going to a point on the map makes you focus more on the map than on the actual game.

-When driving, the camera is in a lower position than I?d like. When backing up with the car, you can't even see what you are backing up into because it zooms into the car and its ass ends up taking up the entire screen.

-No reference material on how to play the game. Instead, they insist on teaching you things while you're busy doing a mission. This is a problem that they've had in previous games and they obvious didn't learn. A pop-up that paused the game would've been nice.
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,742
42
91
If I recall correctly, it was 9.5 then the score was swapped to a 10. I agree though, this game is nowhere near a 10, a 8.5-9 yeah, but a 10...come on. I am about 20% and am not real compelled to finish this game.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
I heard the game looks better when run at 720p via the console settings...perhaps you should give that a try?
 

Auryg

Platinum Member
Dec 28, 2003
2,377
0
71
Looks like trash to me too, playing on either my projector or Dell 24" monitor.

But, we hooked it up to a friend's SDTV a few nights ago, and it looks great. Smoothed out all the badness

But yeah, I agree. Totally mediocre game. As a matter of fact, that's what's going on my blog soon - a rant about the mediocrity of GTA4.

Edit: It's in my (new) blog, in my signature. Don't take it too seriously like some others have..I think I need to work on my writing skills.
 

nycxandy

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
3,731
0
76
Um, who cares what Gamespot says?

Edit: Why are people so hung up on scores?
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
I want to know why you couldn't post this in the perfectly good gta4 thread that everybody else has been using for 2 months now.....
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
If you buy games, there is no way of knowing if a game is good or not, other than renting it, until you look at a score. If you just buy the game without looking up the score, you may not like the game and have thrown away $60. However, a score is not a guarantee that you'll enjoy the game. It is just one piece of the puzzle in doing your research before spending your money. On the other hand, we can only hope that people do proper research, which is why scores can mean a lot to certain people.

So why don't I just rent it? Renting is a way of devaluing a game. Many games are 10 hours. If I pay $5 to rent the game and play 4 hours of it, the $60 game just lost almost half it's value and is no longer worth buying. And then if I do buy it, it would then cost a total of $65. You might as well just continue to rent it until you beat it.

Originally posted by: blurredvision
I want to know why you couldn't post this in the perfectly good gta4 thread that everybody else has been using for 2 months now.....
Plenty of reasons:

1. I didn't know about the thread.
2. Save people from spoilers contained in the general thread.
3. Given the praise that this game gets, it is important enough to be a topic for easy accessibility, instead of hidden amongst many posts.
4. This thread is more specific than a General GTA4 thread.
 

hooflung

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2004
1,190
1
0
I am not a fan of the series but I decided to buy it blindly last night so I could have a game I could play with the ps3 controller (FragFX for FPSs and all I owned before GTA was CoD4 ). Well, all I can say is this is the first GTA that has immersed me in a story I actually feel compelled to finish. I am playing at 1080p on a Dell 24" over HDMI and I am going to back it down to 720p most likely but other than that I have fun.

A few complaints I have is the world car AI is a bit shit. Cars running over pedestrians all the time, not adhering to traffic rules everywhere. Other than that the world feels pretty realistic. I would give the game an 8.9 if I was a reviewer, definitely not a 10 because of issues but as close to 9 as possible without giving it a 9.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
This seems to happen way too often with the 'big' titles. They are hyped so much and it's almost like the reviewer is too scared to give it an honest review. I don't see how you can have any credibility when giving the game a 10 and then writing 'this game has problems'. 10 is perfect. If it has problems give it a 9 or 9.5 max.
 

MmmSkyscraper

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
9,472
1
76
Originally posted by: VIAN
Originally posted by: blurredvision
I want to know why you couldn't post this in the perfectly good gta4 thread that everybody else has been using for 2 months now.....
Plenty of reasons:

1. I didn't know about the thread.
2. Save people from spoilers.
3. Given the praise that this game gets, it is important enough to be a topic for easy accessibility, instead of hidden amongst many posts.
4. This thread is more specific than a General GTA4 thread.

1. Do a search, or a quick scan of the first page. It's been on there for WEEKS.
2. What spoilers? You didn't mention anything specific.
3. Your criticisms don't warrant a new thread.
4. No, it's just about you being gullible.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126
Gamespot was paid off. So was IGN. So was pretty much all the review site that gave it a 10 score. This game had to be a huge success. The company life and independence depended on this game's success with EA looking to acquire. You're talking billions at stake. You don't think million or two wasn't paid off to insure you're going to have a billion dollar payday?

It's like going to a restaurant. If you see a 100% health inspection score, that place paid off the health inspector or was just built.

Bribes and kickbacks are part of business. Anyone thinking otherwise is just naive.
 

GundamSonicZeroX

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2005
2,100
0
0
You act like this is something new. Every big game review site (ie. GS, IGN, etc.) is paid off. If GS gave GTA4 a low(er) score, Rockstar would not want to advertise on GS and there goes this month's server payment (I know it's not that drastic). Remember Kane and Lynch?
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
10's aren't representative of a "perfect" game. A 10 simply means that a game is absolutely amazing for its generation. Obviously you would still disagree with the 10, though.

That said, Gamespot blows fucking ass.
 

warcrow

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
11,078
11
81
Originally posted by: VIAN
My background, as far as GTA is concerned, is that I've played both Vice City and San Andreas on the PC. They were not bad, mostly lacking in story. I've never played GTA on consoles before, but I have played Saint's Row, which was awesome.

GTA:VC and SA lacked in story? Ok, I can understand VC (for the most part) fitting there but SA had a pretty great story in terms of this industry. It also was the first GTA with a protagonist with compassion. I actually found CJ to be interesting protagonist. You've gotta expand on this.



Considering what I've seen so far, I can't imagine how GTA4 has garnered such praise. Obviously, I'm only 20% done with the game so this isn't a full review.

The game and story get better and better as you play through it. Infact, it gets pretty epic at some points.



Gamespot is full of CRAP. They managed to give it a 10, which is a PERFECT SCORE, but the say in the video review that the game isn't perfect and that there isn't much new material added compared to previous games. It's not just Gamespot though. Look at Metacritic.com, I see a lot of hundreds.

Well, to each his own, but I personally dont think Gamespot is a reliable resource for great, objective reviews. But as far as the other jurnos/publications and their reviews--unfortunately I think several got a little caught up in the excitement and hype. The game is not perfect, but then again--I dont think it's possible to make a perfect game. I think all games had imperfections. So, to me, when someone gives a game a 10/10 it just means that this is basically (from the reviewers opinion) one of the best experiences you can expect to have in a video game.



Their idea of great graphics is also skewed. I've seen much better graphics out of Saint's Row. Sure the game looks nice on their video review, when you view it through such a small screen, but in real life, on your TV it shows a different thing entirely. Disappointment.

I'm going to basically repost what I posted in the official GTA thread, but instead of directing to the general--I'll direct it to you:

  • "Do many of you here base "awesome graphics" on just the visual fidelity? What about the amazing architecture? What about the sheer vast amount of objects moving around on the screen? Have you stopped and looks at what's really going on around you? All the cars and people walking about, doing their own thing. What about the environmental weathering (have you seen a heavy rain pour yet or the fog roll in? It looks like nothing else I've seen in a game). Nothing, here is cookie cutter. Every single corner and alleyway has unique design aspects to it, and there is still over 80% of the game that still needs to be seen by most of us.

    In past GTA games, walking through any door (when outside) would mean you were going to see a loading screen. Resturants, Bars, Gyms, and everything else was not immediately accessible. Now, walking through a door and immediately have access to these things still trips me out. The first time I did this (cloth shopping) it litterally made me stop and think about what just happened--then I killed everyone in the store because I was so excited.

    Anyone who played any of the previous games knows that GTA has never ever been about the graphics--it's always been kind of understood that that just wasnt going to blow you away. This is a huge improvement.

    I personally think the game looks stunning. There's more to a great, visually impressive presentation than the resolution of a brick pattern on the side of a building.
    "



-Camera is in a lower position than I?d like. Using the camera (right stick) while walking is annoying because the camera keeps trying to recenter itself. Camera when backing up with the car is unacceptable because you don't get to see what you are backing up into. It just zooms into the car and the car ends up using the entire screen.

I agree with you here, but only in the default camera mode. Hitting the "Select" button will change the camera views--there are 4 5. Mess around with them to find the right one for you.

Protip: While taking a taxi, hit the "Select" button to go to the cinematic mode.



-Every time you start the game you have to sit through a bunch of pics for loading. I would've like a loading bar to give me an indication of how long I have to wait.

This is an odd statement. The wait it always the same, so once you've been through it you should know how long the wait will be. Besides, once you're in the game there are basically no load times. I, for one, dont mind the 20-25 second wait when the game initializes.



-No reference material on how to play the game. Instead, they insist on teaching you things while your busy doing a mission. This is a problem that they've had in previous games and they obvious didn't learn. A pop-up that paused the game would've been nice.

I actually have always loved it when games integrate tutorials into the game. Havent a seperate level or world for a tutorial just makes me want to mash the buttons to hurry up and get on with the real game. I think Rockstar has always done this extremely well as it gets you up and running very quickly--and in an entertaining way.
 

oznerol

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2002
2,476
0
76
www.lorenzoisawesome.com
I'm going to save the GTA-related stuff to the GTA thread. But seeing how this thread has devolved into review site bashing, I feel like commenting.

First off - I hope you are all aware that IGN, Gamespot, 1Up, etc are not writing these reviews. No, there's actual people behind them. People with opinions. People with preferences.

Hilary Goldstein wrote the IGN review. I've read his other stuff, I even listen to the Three Red Lights podcast he is on. He's a reputable guy (also really funny). We have similar tastes in games, so I'll trust his opinion. There are others on the site I don't particularly agree with (Nate Ahearn).

These reviewers aren't getting their pockets lined by the game developers, regardless of what everyone wants to believe. Granted, they are definitely part of the PR monster - and writers who have a certain affinity for a particular genre/game will generally get to review other games in that genre (ie, someone who is apathetic towards football will not be reviewing Madden). But to say that they're getting paid for high scores is ridiculous.

As for arguing the validity of a "10" score - many of these reviewers have stated that this is the best/most fun game they have played in years. If that doesn't merit a perfect score, then I don't know what does. All games have faults - some just find the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts. Plus, ultimately a review is nothing more than one person's opinion.

Just because the writers at these sites give a game a perfect score does not mean the game is perfect. It just means the particular writers at these sites think the game merits a perfect score based on some arbitrary scale. Nothing more.
 

warcrow

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
11,078
11
81
Originally posted by: hooflung
A few complaints I have is the world car AI is a bit shit. Cars running over pedestrians all the time, not adhering to traffic rules everywhere. Other than that the world feels pretty realistic. I would give the game an 8.9 if I was a reviewer, definitely not a 10 because of issues but as close to 9 as possible without giving it a 9.

You know that that's intentional, right? The cars getting into accidents are part of the world "living" and making mistakes. Wouldnt it be a little boring if nothing like this happened? It happened in previous GTA games too, btw.

I remember at one point in the game I saw a traffic accident happen right infront of me while I was trying to hail a cab. Both drivers got out of the car and one of the guys was really pissed off! He threw blows and a fight totally broke out. I was standing on the curb watching these two guys beat the crap out of one another totally enjoying the show. So, I figured I should get the cops involved so I brought up my cell, dialed 911, and alerted LCPD and they showed up almost instantly--it was awesome. They tried to arrest one of the guy, but he just wouldnt surrender--so they chased after him and shot him. A minute later an ambulance showed up to take care of the bodies. It was so rediculous that it was awesome.

I was looking around for some popcorn, I enjoyed it so much.
 

warcrow

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
11,078
11
81
Originally posted by: Naustica
Gamespot was paid off. So was IGN. So was pretty much all the review site that gave it a 10 score. This game had to be a huge success. The company life and independence depended on this game's success with EA looking to acquire. You're talking billions at stake. You don't think million or two wasn't paid off to insure you're going to have a billion dollar payday?

It's like going to a restaurant. If you see a 100% health inspection score, that place paid off the health inspector or was just built.

Bribes and kickbacks are part of business. Anyone thinking otherwise is just naive.

LOL what?! Oh man, this thread is really starting to go places.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
They could have been paid off to give the game the world first 11. I still love the game on my own accord. Fuck what anyone else thinks.
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,155
1
81
I loved GTA3, then I tried VC and SA and to me it was the same thing, except one added motorcycles and the other added some other vehicles and made the map bigger. I rented GTA4 and again, it's basically the same game as before. I'm surprised that other games get ripped for rehashing the same stuff, but GTA gets a pass.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
I sold my copy of GTA IV back to the shop two days after I bought it. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's getting such praise. Does Rockstar have dirty photos of these people?

The game is BORING. The graphics are pedestrian at best. The combat control downright sucks ass.

If I were rating the game, I'd give it an 8.5, tops. If you've played GTA III, you've played GTA IV... and the combat in GTA III didn't make me want to hurt myself.
 
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