Serious question about Pakistan

[kalster]

I preface this by saying I am an Indian in India.

Pakistan has sponsored cross border terrorism in my country forever it seems, multiple attacks over the past couple of years itself . Why does the American government not put pressure on Pakistan to stop the rogue elements in ISI which support the jihadi organizations working in India. I know they want Pakistan to turn their attention to Afghanistan but the same outfits that carry out the attacks in India are helping the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Swat valley.

Why the double standards?

 

[yllus]

Of course the American government puts pressure on Pakistan to rein in the ISI. The problem is the ISI is not quite under the control of the Pakistani government.

I suppose one solution is to cut all funding to the ISI and disband it, but the agency has an enormous amount of power in Pakistan. That'd be incredibly difficult to do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Of course the American government puts pressure on Pakistan to rein in the ISI. The problem is the ISI is not quite under the control of the Pakistani government.

I suppose one solution is to cut all funding to the ISI and disband it, but the agency has an enormous amount of power in Pakistan. That'd be incredibly difficult to do.

I can't tell a Jew from a Palestinian, a Northern Irishman from a Southern one, or a Pakistani from an Indian perhaps because I am a stupid American, but I will say that my stupidity has some advantages in my opinion. I don't devote most of my mental life to figuring out how to destroy one or another of these groups because I'm a paranoid and mentally ill.

I am very sorry but in my most worthless opinion, I find the attitude of Indians and Pakistanis toward each other to be completely insane while fully aware that to those of both those sides it seems to me they imagine it to be incredibly real. I never hear anybody from Pakistan who isn't terrified by the size of India and who isn't absolutely sure India is out to destroy them. I think this may be just a bit less true on the Indian side but perhaps only because of the confidence that size can bring.

But I can't tell you how comical it is to me that two people who look to be exactly alike in my eye want to kill each other and may in fact destroy the world in a nuclear war. It is rich beyond measure. In fact, among the millions of American bigots and millions more around the world, there's not a dimes worth of difference between either of them and both are looked down upon like they were Taliban.

It is wildly funny that two of the worlds most inferior types, in the minds of millions, are fighting it out for second bottom place, and want to do it with nuclear weapons.

I can only say that it comical, if sad, that people hate themselves and need somebody else to look down on as inferior. And it's not like there isn't a fucking pile of Indians and Pakistanis that go hungry day and night and whose plight ought to be the real focus. The money and time wasted by these groups filled with paranoid hate if invested in making life better for all people would have a profoundly salutary effect if applied, in my opinion.

 

[yllus]

I am very sorry but in my most worthless opinion, I find the attitude of Indians and Pakistanis toward each other to be completely insane while fully aware that to those of both those sides it seems to me they imagine it to be incredibly real. I never hear anybody from Pakistan who isn't terrified by the size of India and who isn't absolutely sure India is out to destroy them. I think this may be just a bit less true on the Indian side but perhaps only because of the confidence that size can bring.

That's an accurate assessment.

It boils down to the government and militaries in both nations having a significant investment in perpetuating fear and anger towards The Other. Each nation's politicians and generals dine very well indeed.

 

[JTsyo]

I preface this by saying I am an Indian in India.

Pakistan has sponsored cross border terrorism in my country forever it seems, multiple attacks over the past couple of years itself . Why does the American government not put pressure on Pakistan to stop the rogue elements in ISI which support the jihadi organizations working in India. I know they want Pakistan to turn their attention to Afghanistan but the same outfits that carry out the attacks in India are helping the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Swat valley.

Why the double standards?

Because the terrorists in India aren't killing Americans. While the US would like to stop all terrorism, it's going to focus it's efforts in the areas that most directly effect it. You think the US would be in Afghanistan if 9/11 happened in India? While I would expect some support from other countries in battling terrorism, I think mostly it's going to be up to each country to fight on their soil. I'm not sure if the other countries in Afghanistan were pulled in because of NATO obligations or they volunteered help against terrorism.

 

[Ozoned]

I preface this by saying I am an Indian in India.

Pakistan has sponsored cross border terrorism in my country forever it seems, multiple attacks over the past couple of years itself . Why does the American government not put pressure on Pakistan to stop the rogue elements in ISI which support the jihadi organizations working in India. I know they want Pakistan to turn their attention to Afghanistan but the same outfits that carry out the attacks in India are helping the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Swat valley.

Why the double standards?

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or
religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.
Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
-- Samuel P. Huntington

rogue elements in ISI you say. You sure?

 

[gingermeggs]

I preface this by saying I am an Indian in India.

Pakistan has sponsored cross border terrorism in my country forever it seems, multiple attacks over the past couple of years itself . Why does the American government not put pressure on Pakistan to stop the rogue elements in ISI which support the jihadi organizations working in India. I know they want Pakistan to turn their attention to Afghanistan but the same outfits that carry out the attacks in India are helping the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Swat valley.

Why the double standards?

Because Kali'star, they will profit from a war between into'yah and pak'o'pissants- snake like behaviour between one another.
India could of been a major benefactor from the "global" recession, but the yanks would lose power over the world's financial system, so they propped up all their insolvent banks.
I don't think India is a good world citizen anyway, with its ultra corrupt, grossly over populated feudal like society with its disregard for the human rights of its own citizens and its environment. Tend to be hawkers and tinkers cusses' whom would sell their mother if it would turn a buck or two, most indians hate hard labor that's for sure.
Get back to us when your country knows the true value of human life($160,000usd not 50 rupees).
Got a very imaginative religion all the same!

 

[kalster]

Because Kali'star, they will profit from a war between into'yah and pak'o'pissants- snake like behaviour between one another.
India could of been a major benefactor from the "global" recession, but the yanks would lose power over the world's financial system, so they propped up all their insolvent banks.
I don't think India is a good world citizen anyway, with its ultra corrupt, grossly over populated feudal like society with its disregard for the human rights of its own citizens and its environment. Tend to be hawkers and tinkers cusses' whom would sell their mother if it would turn a buck or two, most indians hate hard labor that's for sure.
Get back to us when your country knows the true value of human life($160,000usd not 50 rupees).
Got a very imaginative religion all the same!

Nice troll job there. I admit India has its issues (I can feel it more having just moved back after 7 years in the US), but you tend to generalize a lot. It seems like you lost your job to outsourcing or something. I imagine you are the kind of person who also calls all Germans as Nazis.
Get back when you have something valid to contribute.

 

[tvarad]

Moonbeam,
Have you ever asked why Pakistanis are at the West's throat too, given that 99% of all terrorist attacks have some kind of connection with that wretched country (including the recent one at Fort Hood)?

 

[Double Trouble]

Very simple, the US doesn't really care about activities between two backwards crappy countries. It just cares about activities that can impact the US.

 

[tvarad]

Very simple, the US doesn't really care about activities between two backwards crappy countries. It just cares about activities that can impact the US.

It was this kind of smugness that brought about 9/11.

And living off of credit cards does not make a country forward. Did you see how Obama was grovelling in front of the Chinese?

 

[gingermeggs]

Nice troll job there. I admit India has its issues (I can feel it more having just moved back after 7 years in the US), but you tend to generalize a lot. It seems like you lost your job to outsourcing or something. I imagine you are the kind of person who also calls all Germans as Nazis.
Get back when you have something valid to contribute.

Nazis fartzys!
the double standard is light crude standard - Afghanistan = OIL RESOURCES
Indian=POPPADOMS AND SWEET FUCK ALL!

"I admit India has its issues" is the greatest understatement I have heard on these forums.

My job is safe as houses in a country that needs a 1million new houses over the next 10years, the problem with trying to outsource my job(or use immigrant labor more to the point) is most people hate to do intelligent, skilled trades which also are very hard physical work, take half a life time and the respect of your superiors in the trade to gain true proficiency- work that no punjabi' manjit would want to do in a pink fit no matter how much they would earn from it!
You only have to use Chinese or Indian screw fixings to know that they lack real ability to produce quality product in this current day and age.
Your thread is a troll- you have the Gaul to expect the yanks to hold your hand!
Try 2 teaspoons of cement in your tea and go harden the fuck up, you wanna be do-gooder. Fuck it! I wouldn't lose any sleep if you all got smoked.

 

[gingermeggs]

It was this kind of smugness that brought about 9/11.

And living off of credit cards does not make a country forward. Did you see how Obama was grovelling in front of the Chinese?

He won't be the next pres I reckon, now in a recession it is time to ass kiss and he is the perfect ass kisser for the job.

 

[Lemon law]

Kalster, as an Indian also has to pay attention to other problems in India.

For example, there is a Maoist rebellion in Eastern India that has been going on for many years. A set of Indians rebelling against the Indian Government that control the bulk of three provinces. Can't India control their actions?????

Now what you are bitching about regarding Pakistan is largely the same thing. And what the Pakistani government cannot control is the Taliban and a few rouge officers in the ISI. Worse yet in the case of Pakistan, there is the false flag attack element. As the Pakistani government puts pressure on Taliban rebels in its tribal regions, it makes sense for the Taliban to launch Mumbai like attacks in India by killing a few people in a spectacular manner. Suddenly India is predictably pissed, both sides mobilize armies at the border and rattle sabers, while yellow dog journalists wave the bloody shirts. In the resultant Pakistani troop build up at the border takes otherwise engaged army troops in the Tribal region, and in the entire fast shuffler it helps the Taliban in the tribal areas by decoying the army away from the tribal regions, And the whole Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan adds to the tension. As do frequently rioting Hindus inside of Indian who butcher Muslim's. Can't India control them?

 

[kalster]

Kalster, as an Indian also has to pay attention to other problems in India.

For example, there is a Maoist rebellion in Eastern India that has been going on for many years. A set of Indians rebelling against the Indian Government that control the bulk of three provinces. Can't India control their actions?????

Now what you are bitching about regarding Pakistan is largely the same thing. And what the Pakistani government cannot control is the Taliban and a few rouge officers in the ISI. Worse yet in the case of Pakistan, there is the false flag attack element. As the Pakistani government puts pressure on Taliban rebels in its tribal regions, it makes sense for the Taliban to launch Mumbai like attacks in India by killing a few people in a spectacular manner. Suddenly India is predictably pissed, both sides mobilize armies at the border and rattle sabers, while yellow dog journalists wave the bloody shirts. In the resultant Pakistani troop build up at the border takes otherwise engaged army troops in the Tribal region, and in the entire fast shuffler it helps the Taliban in the tribal areas by decoying the army away from the tribal regions, And the whole Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan adds to the tension. As do frequently rioting Hindus inside of Indian who butcher Muslim's. Can't India control them?

How does Maoist rebellion in India compare to Pakistan sponsoring terrorists operating IN India. What you describe are valid problems but are internal to India. Last I checked India doesn't send Jihadis to blow themselves up in Pakistan

 

[kalster]

Nazis fartzys!
the double standard is light crude standard - Afghanistan = OIL RESOURCES
Indian=POPPADOMS AND SWEET FUCK ALL!

"I admit India has its issues" is the greatest understatement I have heard on these forums.

My job is safe as houses in a country that needs a 1million new houses over the next 10years, the problem with trying to outsource my job(or use immigrant labor more to the point) is most people hate to do intelligent, skilled trades which also are very hard physical work, take half a life time and the respect of your superiors in the trade to gain true proficiency- work that no punjabi' manjit would want to do in a pink fit no matter how much they would earn from it!
You only have to use Chinese or Indian screw fixings to know that they lack real ability to produce quality product in this current day and age.
Your thread is a troll- you have the Gaul to expect the yanks to hold your hand!
Try 2 teaspoons of cement in your tea and go harden the fuck up, you wanna be do-gooder. Fuck it! I wouldn't lose any sleep if you all got smoked.

And you morons wonder why the world hates you. Good thing that most Americans aren't as ignorant as you. Keep living in denial that only American made things are top quality. Still driving that gas guzzling piece of shit Chevy truck?

 

[tvarad]

.....
Your thread is a troll- you have the Gaul to expect the yanks to hold your hand!
.....

I guess that's why the U.S. has allies like the Saudis and Pakistanis who express friendship by flying planes into buildings! Sigh.

 

[cirrrocco]

Very simple, the US doesn't really care about activities between two backwards crappy countries. It just cares about activities that can impact the US.

haha i remmeber reading news about indian intelligence agencies providing reams of dossiers to the US state dept about impending terrorist attacks in the US. Citizens like you, had your head and your ass in the muck [pakistani support] and didnt listen. I read this online in 2000 and I couldnt comprehend why the US state dept wouldnt take any action but yet provideauthorization to transfer F-16's and ECM pods for attacking "terrorists".

so boom down went 2 buildings and 3000 people.

did you know the head of the ISI [like the head of CIA] sent about 100K , a month before the 911 attacks, for operations to Mohammad Atta, the guy who actualy flew into the WTC. keep smelling the fart from the kababs the pakistanis ate .. I am sure your worldview will still not change when the next dirty bomb attack comes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Omar_Saeed_Sheikh
check section "connection to 9/11"

Give peace a chance, destroy the pakistani jehadi army

 

[cirrrocco]

.... The money and time wasted by these groups filled with paranoid hate if invested in making life better for all people would have a profoundly salutary effect if applied, in my opinion.

wow that was rich , esp after seeing what you guys did for the last 40 years during the cold war. funded the terrorist monster that we see now starting with afghanistan. The world didnt see a lot oof difference between the americans and the ruskies yet you brought your warring blocks all over the world. so i think you guys should stfu before preaching any sort of morality.

why doesnt the US cut down the defense budget to 150 billion instead of 450 billion a year and give every citizen $1000 more every year. That would have a salutory effect in your country.

 

[gingermeggs]

And you morons wonder why the world hates you. Good thing that most Americans aren't as ignorant as you. Keep living in denial that only American made things are top quality. Still driving that gas guzzling piece of shit Chevy truck?

It's a Ford actually and it gets 9L/km and carries over 1000kgs load, you can call it what you like but you ain't getting a lift nowhere Bozo.
Tata is fine example of mechanical engineer excellence isn't it?
I'd rather be a moron here then picking the peanuts outta shit in a shit hole like India.
What I really want to see happen in my country is the end of allowing Indian and Chinese students to get study visas at the detriment of the young people who are born here. Stop backdoor immigration and never set immigration numbers to cause the secularization of this fine nation. What you want is not my issue............................

 

[gingermeggs]

I guess that's why the U.S. has allies like the Saudis and Pakistanis who express friendship by flying planes into buildings! Sigh.

I am a believer that it was all a setup, don't need the details as the results tell the story enough. The quality of the fair mindedness of the majority of the people is on our side in English speaking nations, when the cheaply extractable oil in the middle east dries up so does its attraction for aid and it will wither away.
Terrorist acts don't change much in long term, it just causes grief in the short term and makes it easier to exploit the resources in those countries playing the game.

Bin ladin would of be caught/dead by now if this wasn't an inside job.
Now I'm going to sharpen my bayonet!
Catch you latter mate.

 

[gingermeggs]

haha i remmeber reading news about indian intelligence agencies providing reams of dossiers to the US state dept about impending terrorist attacks in the US. Citizens like you, had your head and your ass in the muck [pakistani support] and didnt listen. I read this online in 2000 and I couldnt comprehend why the US state dept wouldnt take any action but yet provideauthorization to transfer F-16's and ECM pods for attacking "terrorists".

so boom down went 2 buildings and 3000 people.

did you know the head of the ISI [like the head of CIA] sent about 100K , a month before the 911 attacks, for operations to Mohammad Atta, the guy who actualy flew into the WTC. keep smelling the fart from the kababs the pakistanis ate .. I am sure your worldview will still not change when the next dirty bomb attack comes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Omar_Saeed_Sheikh
check section "connection to 9/11"

Give peace a chance, destroy the pakistani jehadi army

How about you don the flack jacket for a while?
Destruction is not constructive for peace. Maybe a genetically specific virus would be a better tactic to deal with the problem, kinda like how we used myxomatosis on rabbits.
Maybe that's already in the pipeline.

 

[Lemon law]

I see my comment to Kalistar sailed right over his head, the official policy of both the Pakistani government and the Indian government may be one thing, but the actions of individual groups inside of a given country may be something else.

India can't control its Maoists rebels and Pakistan can't control the Taliban. It just happens that the Taliban can exploit Indian Pakistani tensions to their advantage.

 

[werepossum]

During the Cold War India was more socialist-leaning and in the USSR's camp, so the USA wooed Pakistan as a hedge against the possibility that India and the USSR might combine to oppose the West. Then in the '80s we strengthened our Pakistani ties as a buffer against the USSR gaining a warm water port when they invaded Afghanistan. And now we need their assistance in tracking down and fighting terrorists in Afghanistan.

Since Pakistan has zero fear that India will launch a major unprovoked attack, we need them a lot more than they need us. Therefore we put no pressure on them about much of anything. And the one time we really broke that rule - pressuring Musharriff to step down - didn't really turn out too well for us. Although I suppose it was a necessary step given that we were establishing democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[cirrrocco]

I see my comment to Kalistar sailed right over his head, the official policy of both the Pakistani government and the Indian government may be one thing, but the actions of individual groups inside of a given country may be something else.

India can't control its Maoists rebels and Pakistan can't control the Taliban. It just happens that the Taliban can exploit Indian Pakistani tensions to their advantage.

lemon, I usually agree with you and admire your patience, but not on this occasion.

India cannot control its maoist problem, yes thats true. But You do not see the maoists going to pakistan, nepal, bangladesh or china and killing people out there.

Pakistan cannot control taliban, but you see them going to afghanistan and killing people.
Pakistan can control the ISI and the jehadi factories, which is basically an extension of its army. yet they do not control them.

I can bring up the same argument, afghanistan could not control the 2000 or so al qaeda members before 911. so there should not be US troops blowing up some hills and remote oitposts in afghanistan.

The argument about individual groups is just plain specious. If they were individual groups, they wouldnt be calling their handlers in pakistan, no sat phones, no military training, etc etc. I can go on. When I hear americans talk like this esp after 911, i can only sigh in frustration.