Seriously considering going from GTX 580 to Radeon 7970

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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
Do a custom install of CCC and don't enable HDMI audio. Don't select it during installation. I had oddities as well with GTX 580 -- I always de-selected the HDMI audio driver during installation

Tried that. It makes no difference whether it's the default windows driver or the catalyst HDMI audio driver. The same problems persists. The only fix is to disable them.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
I'm at work right now, so I haven't had a chance to install anything.

What drivers should I be using? I read that cat 12.2 betas are out. Are these any good for the 7970? What about catalyst profiles?

CAPs? I dunno.

use 8.921.2 built January 4th. Download here - http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/radeon-7900-series.aspx



It's newer than all of these:



and the italians are claiming a 19% boost over the fastest one in this graph ^.

12.2x is beta dated jan 03 2011. So the ones im linking are the newest possible drivers

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=356954


Edit: Most resent CAPs are here (Jan 4th also):
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=356772
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Some tips for my fellow 7970 users:

Use the drivers off the AMD website here:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/radeon-7900-series.aspx

- Disabling AMD overdrive in CCC can be helpful. What happens, if you're using MSI afterburner, afterburner will load first during windows startup and then CCC will load and over write your voltages/clock settings.

- Disabling ULPS in sapphire trixx is equivalent to enabling power tune +20% in CCC. Sapphire Trixx right now is more reliable than MSI afterburner.

- Sapphire trixx is an excellent utility to utilize, it gives more accurate voltages than the most recent MSI afterburner beta

- When using MSI afterburner, run it with the command line argument -xcl, then reboot to unlock gpu clocks

- Before installing your 7970, be sure to run driver sweeper after a SAFE BOOT and completely remove all prior registry traces of your last vidcard - I did this to remove traces of my 580s.

- Using a voltage monitor, sapphire trixx is more accurate on reporting GPU voltage. I think MSI afterburner still needs a bit of work in this aspect.

- If you're overclocking, set a custom fan profile in MSI afterburner or sapphire trixx. Do not use auto fan! It will not ramp up (fan speed) fast enough for overclocked GPU's most of the time. You can also use a set manual fan speed if you dont mind going full speed 100% of the time

thats all for now
 
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Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Hey blackened, according to Unwinder, AB is reading the 7970's real-time voltage measurement (hence vdroop reportings). Trixxx reads just like every other software (inlcuding gpuz and AB on any non-7900 card).
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
Switching from one vendor to another can cause issues. I had to reinstall Windows going from AMD to nvidia and have heard of the same being done for the opposite switch. You may need to do the same.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Hey blackened, according to Unwinder, AB is reading the 7970's real-time voltage measurement (hence vdroop reportings). Trixxx reads just like every other software (inlcuding gpuz and AB on any non-7900 card).

Oh I see. Good info, thanks
 
Jan 27, 2009
182
0
0
Some tips for my fellow 7970 users:

Use the drivers off the AMD website here:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/radeon-7900-series.aspx

- Disabling AMD overdrive in CCC can be helpful. What happens, if you're using MSI afterburner, afterburner will load first during windows startup and then CCC will load and over write your voltages/clock settings.

- Disabling ULPS in sapphire trixx is equivalent to enabling power tune +20% in CCC. Sapphire Trixx right now is more reliable than MSI afterburner.

- Sapphire trixx is an excellent utility to utilize, it gives more accurate voltages than the most recent MSI afterburner beta

- When using MSI afterburner, run it with the command line argument -xcl, then reboot to unlock gpu clocks

- Before installing your 7970, be sure to run driver sweeper after a SAFE BOOT and completely remove all prior registry traces of your last vidcard - I did this to remove traces of my 580s.

- Using a voltage monitor, sapphire trixx is more accurate on reporting GPU voltage. I think MSI afterburner still needs a bit of work in this aspect.

- If you're overclocking, set a custom fan profile in MSI afterburner or sapphire trixx. Do not use auto fan! It will not ramp up (fan speed) fast enough for overclocked GPU's most of the time. You can also use a set manual fan speed if you dont mind going full speed 100% of the time

thats all for now

Hey blackened, thanks for that awesome post. I learned some stuff!

I have a question, however. I was using MSI Afterburner and Overdrive in combination but I want to disable Overdrive and rely on Afterburner exclusively, as you suggest. Will disabling Overdrive not remove my +20% power tune setting? Can I reset that in Afterburner instead? I'm at work right now but I can't remember seeing the power tune setting in Afterburner but I may have missed it. Thanks
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Hey blackened, thanks for that awesome post. I learned some stuff!

I have a question, however. I was using MSI Afterburner and Overdrive in combination but I want to disable Overdrive and rely on Afterburner exclusively, as you suggest. Will disabling Overdrive not remove my +20% power tune setting? Can I reset that in Afterburner instead? I'm at work right now but I can't remember seeing the power tune setting in Afterburner but I may have missed it. Thanks

You know, thats a good question and i'm not sure. One thing I want to try later is enabling powertune 20% and then disabling overdrive -- I wonder if that will retain the powertune setting?

I guess the other alternative is setting afterburner to not load at startup, and then running from the desktop after everything is loaded. Hmm, i'll check on this later. The other alternative is with Trixx you can do this with the "disable ULPS option" which essentially removes vdroop altogether....that is more of a brute force option, AFAIK with powertune you still have vdroop (voltages vary depending on GPU load)
 
Jan 27, 2009
182
0
0
Cool. I think I have been inadvertently letting Catalyst do its thing and then resetting the voltages etc with Afterburner when I invariably tinker in Afterburner. It looks like I will be giving Trixx a go as well tonight. One thing I will do is check what the registry settings for Catalyst are set to when Overdrive is disabled. That should give some insight into whether powertune is increased.

Do you think Trixx is really clamping the voltage to a certain setting and preventing vDroop or simply reporting the target voltage? One thing I have noticed is that I set my core voltage to slightly above stock and log my voltages to a file with Gpu-z. It has been consistently reporting a loaded voltage of 1.17v (default) which is incorrect. I know that I am running at my custom voltage (1.187v) because my card operates about 3-4*C higher than if I run at the default voltage.
 

CFP

Senior member
Apr 26, 2006
544
6
81
I just push the 580 to 960 core and call it a day. Should be good for a while.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
blackened23 said:
At 1200/1600 the 7970 in my case is anywhere from 48-80% faster than 580 SLI.

That's a pretty bold claim. And not correct except perhaps in one or two very isolated cases where sli doesn't scale.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
Nice! Use sapphire trixx and oc the heck out of it

I tried it and went for 1200/1600 on each card with 1.225V. Was getting display corruption in L.A. Noire. The results I posted are with the cards at 1100/1500 with default voltage using AMD Overdrive.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
I tried it and went for 1200/1600 on each card with 1.225V. Was getting display corruption in L.A. Noire. The results I posted are with the cards at 1100/1500 with default voltage using AMD Overdrive.

Man your rig is the bomb!

How does 7970 Tri-Fire compare to 580 Tri-SLI? Your thoughts on a 7970 versus a 580, and the 7970's overclocking potential? Which driver are you using? I'll bet there won't be as many custom Anti aliasing methods as you're used to with Nvidia's 580 SLI, but 4x or greater + some FXAA should be alright, and SGSSAA on the older ones will be amazing!

1100/1500 seems 'meh' - I'm sure you're aware of the +200mhz core & memory speed left beyond this point with some added voltage. What are your overall thoughts so far? You said you have "quite a few words to write about AMD drivers".
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
One word (or two, it's hyphenated): MICRO-STUTTER

You literally cannot play Rage with tri-fire 7970s. Even regular CrossFire mode is bad. The micro-stutter is all the time any time. Not only that, but hyperthreading causes even more stuttering. Skyrim is hit or miss. You look up, micro-stutter. You look down, micro-stutter. You looks straight ahead, smooth. The claims that 7970 doesn't have micro-stutter in CrossFire are extremely WRONG. I'm seriously contemplating putting my GTX 580s back in. At least the micro-stutter was infrequent with them.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
That's a pretty bold claim. And not correct except perhaps in one or two very isolated cases where sli doesn't scale.

It really isn't. I usually try to use my PC for my own enjoyment, but i'll try to work on some gaming benchmarks and FRAPs later. In the meantime if you look at existing xfire benchmarks at hardwareheaven, crossfire scaling is near 100% in many games at stock settings. That is better than SLI scales, on average. I'm running at 1175 at the moment on both cards, so that is another factor.

Its not too difficult to understand really. Just like a single 7970 can perform up to 70% faster when overclocked (or near 100% faster in DX:HR), the same applies to xfire.

Adam: Get dxtory, install it, go into advanced settings, and set it to 60. This will eliminate all problems, period - if vsync doesn't. Are you running with vsync disabled? If so, why on earth would you do that? Do you have a 120hz monitor? Part of the issue is that DX9/DX11 has specific methods by which you direct them to enable vsync. AMD follows this method to the Tee. Nvidia does something different. Anyway, long story short, just enable vsync or install dxtory and problems are gone. Or another solution is using bandicap and setting a FPS limit to 130 if you're using a 120hz monitor. Either way this will fix all issues. Another "fix" for such issues is rivatuner's D3D override. If you force vsync with it, that also eliminates stutter.
 
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Owls

Senior member
Feb 22, 2006
735
0
76
As a current 6970 cfx user I would say stick with nvidia. Amd has lost me for life due to the driver fiascos when every new game comes out. BF3 still crashes with cfx enabled

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
It really isn't. I usually try to use my PC for my own enjoyment, but i'll try to work on some gaming benchmarks and FRAPs later. In the meantime if you look at existing xfire benchmarks at hardwareheaven, crossfire scaling is near 100% in many games at stock settings. That is better than SLI scales, on average. I'm running at 1175 at the moment on both cards, so that is another factor.

Its not too difficult to understand really. Just like a single 7970 can perform up to 70% faster when overclocked (or near 100% faster in DX:HR), the same applies to xfire.

Adam: Get dxtory, install it, go into advanced settings, and set it to 60. This will eliminate all problems, period - if vsync doesn't. Are you running with vsync disabled? If so, why on earth would you do that? Do you have a 120hz monitor? Part of the issue is that DX9/DX11 has specific methods by which you direct them to enable vsync. AMD follows this method to the Tee. Nvidia does something different. Anyway, long story short, just enable vsync or install dxtory and problems are gone. Or another solution is using bandicap and setting a FPS limit to 130 if you're using a 120hz monitor. Either way this will fix all issues. Another "fix" for such issues is rivatuner's D3D override. If you force vsync with it, that also eliminates stutter.

It fixed it! I didn't think the micro-stutter with these cards could be fixed in its current state. I downloaded the software and set it to 60 FPS and the micro-stutter was gone! That got me thinking, could the Rivatuner Statistics Server technology included with MSI Afterburner do the same thing? It indeed does. When I set it to force 60 FPS the micro-stutter is gone. It's easier to use and doesn't cost anything. I wish the ATI/AMD driver did the same thing, but using this does work.

Also, what's up with ATI/AMD not forcing vsync? I have to use D3D Overrider to get it working with everything.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
It fixed it! I didn't think the micro-stutter with these cards could be fixed in its current state. I downloaded the software and set it to 60 FPS and the micro-stutter was gone! That got me thinking, could the Rivatuner Statistics Server technology included with MSI Afterburner do the same thing? It indeed does. When I set it to force 60 FPS the micro-stutter is gone. It's easier to use and doesn't cost anything. I wish the ATI/AMD driver did the same thing, but using this does work.

Also, what's up with ATI/AMD not forcing vsync? I have to use D3D Overrider to get it working with everything.

My understanding was that D3D has a specific way to force vsync, but games devs are doing something different which breaks it. So AMD does the d3d method while nvidia has a different method. Thats my rough understanding anyway. Glad you got it fixed

One thing AMD said at CES is that they want to work with game devs more closely this year. I'm watching eagerly, because thats exactly what they should do--before they just made the hardware and waited for developers to come their way....hopefully they'll be more cognizant of such issues that the community brings up. This is what they want to do , and hopefully they'll be more like NV in this respect. Chasing game devs to give their customers the best experience possible.
 
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Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
It fixed it! I didn't think the micro-stutter with these cards could be fixed in its current state. I downloaded the software and set it to 60 FPS and the micro-stutter was gone! That got me thinking, could the Rivatuner Statistics Server technology included with MSI Afterburner do the same thing? It indeed does. When I set it to force 60 FPS the micro-stutter is gone. It's easier to use and doesn't cost anything. I wish the ATI/AMD driver did the same thing, but using this does work.

Also, what's up with ATI/AMD not forcing vsync? I have to use D3D Overrider to get it working with everything.

Any other issues you've been having? One of my client's wants to get tri-fire 7970s and I want to brace him for any possible issues.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
Any other issues you've been having? One of my client's wants to get tri-fire 7970s and I want to brace him for any possible issues.

CrossFire support for titles is hit or miss, but thankfully the drivers allow for custom profiles now. In the handful of games I've tested a few did not work right with their default CrossFire profile. L.A. Noire needed to have the profile set to "fear.exe" and Alice Maddness Returns needed "AFR Friendly". The multi-threaded rendering AMD has in their drivers does not like hyper-threading. It needs to be turned off to get smooth framerates in some games.
 
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Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
0
new card and new architecture is bound to have problems, or?

Hows the "general" feeling Adam? You feel like its a worthy upgrade over 3! 580s?
 
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