Seriously, why the hell are video cards even being equipped with a VGA connector?

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Why are high end video cards coming with a VGA and DVI connector? Shouldn't they just give you dual DVI connections? You can go DVI>VGA with an adapter if you still have a CRT, but you can't do VGA>DVI. I have to buy a $600 card (X800XT PE) to get dual DVI. Or I can get a X850XT with a VGA and DVI connector for $470. WTH? Is it a money thing where it costs substantially more to implement a dual DVI solution?.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Most people are still using onboard video.
Most people are still using CRTs.
CRTs are still better than LCDs.

The DVI standard is a ways off, methinks.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
I found several High end cards with dual DVI at Newegg. X800XL, 6800GT, etc. Some in AGP.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Most people are still using onboard video.
Most people are still using CRTs.
CRTs are still better than LCDs.

The DVI standard is a ways off, methinks.

Umm, that's why they can package a DVI>VGA adapter. I got one with my 8500. Now what?
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
I found several High end cards with dual DVI at Newegg. X800XL, 6800GT, etc. Some in AGP.
I need one using PCI-E. If I pay $400+ for a video card, I think dual DVI isn't too much to ask for. If you can find a PCI-E X800XT PE with dual DVI for under $500, please let me know.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: JackBurton
You can go DVI>VGA with an adapter

exactly, that's a LOT of money in parts not everyone needs. Right now we're in a phase where one VGA and one DVI port on a video card makes sense. Not everyone has a digital display, many if not a majority of LCDs don't even support DVI.
 

Wolfshanze

Senior member
Jan 21, 2005
767
0
0
For starters, I have both CRTs and a high-end LCD in my house, so don't think I'm an LCD hater... having said that, to answer your question:

#1: the VAST majority of the computer market uses CRTs, not LCDs.

#2: it costs EXTRA money to make all those DVI->VGA converters

#3: of the minority who do have LCDs, you have an even SMALLER fraction of an already small number who have DUAL LCDs (the ONLY people who need dual-DVI).

#4: Mabye CRT users don't want extra-long, accident-waiting-to-happen extensions sticking out the back of their case because they're forced to use DVI->VGA converters by the .03% of the computer market who use dual LCD monitors.

#5: LCDs will NEVER become the defacto monitor as CRTs have been and still are. Newer, better technologies will replace LCDs soon, including newer, better, thinner, cheaper CRT screens and some of the other new display technologies coming out.

Frankly, I'm surprised there are as many dual-DVI cards as there are on the market... if anything, there should be fewer!
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
I can't see anyone passing up the 16 pipe Powercolor X800XL in PCI-e with dual DVI and VIVO for $369. Currently in stock at Newegg.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: JackBurton
You can go DVI>VGA with an adapter

exactly, that's a LOT of money in parts not everyone needs. Right now we're in a phase where one VGA and one DVI port on a video card makes sense. Not everyone has a digital display, many if not a majority of LCDs don't even support DVI.

No exactly nothing. If we are talking about a low end or mid range card, then that might be a reasonable arguement. For high end cards ($400+), thowing in a $5 part isn't going to do anything to the overall price of the card. Like I said, I got a DVI>VGA adapter with my 8500 when I bought it brand new and it was "only" $299 back then. And it didn't even have dual DVI. It had a DVI and VGA connector. How about this, don't bundle bullsh!t games with my card that I'm never going to play and instead giving me dual DVI with an adapter. :|
 

Fenuxx

Senior member
Dec 3, 2004
907
0
76
Also, it has been known that adapters can cause weird artifacts. I haven't personally dealt with this as I have a CRT (Viewsonic A90f+ 19"), but I have read that some people have problems with this. Besides, if you really want dual-DVI, then you should be smart enough to look for one, as I have only seen the 1337 doods have dual-DVI setups. I personally could care less whether its a DVI\VGA hybrid vs a dual-DVI card. Just as long as its performance is kick ass!
 

Wolfshanze

Senior member
Jan 21, 2005
767
0
0
thowing in a $5 part isn't going to do anything to the overall price of the card.
Throwing in a $5 part times several thousand (or more) for the card series DOES add-up.

Who is the market going to cater to? The .03% who needs dual-DVI because they have two LCDs per computer, or the 99.97% of the market who has either CRTs or a single LCD?
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
It wouldn't hurt to offer more dual DVI-I cards, thats for sure. It shouldn't be just high-end cards either, wanting or needing dual digital displays certainly doesn't always require a high performance 3D gaming card.

How about some of those with dual link DVI while you're at it? 16x12 is pushing it already for some implementations, and anything above that is a crapshoot.

Also, it has been known that adapters can cause weird artifacts. I haven't personally dealt with this as I have a CRT

CRT is where you use them. I've used a DVI>VGA adaptor (as anyone with most AIW cards and CRT monitors) and I've never nticed any weird artifacting. Oddly, I have heard that sometimes switching from the VGA to the DVI>VGA adaptor does sometimes clear up some artifacting or interference?
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Wolfshanze
For starters, I have both CRTs and a high-end LCD in my house, so don't think I'm an LCD hater... having said that, to answer your question:

#1: the VAST majority of the computer market uses CRTs, not LCDs.

Um, CRTs are being phased out. You may love 'em, but the facts are, they are going away. Sony is pretty much out of the CRT game (except for a few VERY high end models) and Mitisubishi is getting out of the CRT business.
#2: it costs EXTRA money to make all those VGA->DVI converters
Like I said, I got it bundled with my $299 8500. I think they could do teh same with $400+ cards.
#3: of the minority who do have LCDs, you have an even SMALLER fraction of an already small number who have DUAL LCDs (the ONLY people who need dual-DVI).
You can do dual LCDs OR LCD and CRT with dual DVI. You don't even have the OPTION of doing dual DVI with a DVI/VGA card. I think when someone pays $400+ for a card they should at least have that option.
[/quote]#4: Mabye CRT users don't want extra-long, accident-waiting-to-happen extensions sticking out the back of their case because they're forced to use VGA->DVI converters by the .03% of the computer market who use dual LCD monitors. [/quote]
Maybe CRT users need to be more careful with their PCs. Quadros and FireGLs have had those extensions for a LONG time now.
#5: LCDs will NEVER become the defacto monitor as CRTs have been and still are. Newer, better technologies will replace LCDs soon, including newer, better, thinner, cheaper CRT screens and some of the other new display technologies coming out.
Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.


As a little side note: I'm a Sony G500 owner and LOVE it.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Wolfshanze
thowing in a $5 part isn't going to do anything to the overall price of the card.
Throwing in a $5 part times several thousand (or more) for the card series DOES add-up.

Who is the market going to cater to? The .03% who needs dual-DVI because they have two LCDs per computer, or the 99.97% of the market who has either CRTs or a single LCD?

Seriously man, WTF are you talking about? We're talking about $400+, most of the time ~$500 cards here. The place to save $5 per card is in the lower to mid range cards. Read my above posts, I've already commented on this.
 

Wolfshanze

Senior member
Jan 21, 2005
767
0
0
Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.
Then you obviously haven't been keeping up with technology advances. Samsung is introducing FLAT CRTs that are MUCH THINNER then current CRTs, and are MUCH CHEAPER then LCDs. Also, there are two or three new organic display technologies that are being introduced that do more then LCDs for same or cheaper price.

Bottom line, you're not keeping up with technological advances, because if you did, you would realize LCDs will never take over the market.

So if you like your LCD, you better hold onto it.
 

McArra

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,295
0
0
Then you should search for one and not buy the others. I'm a high end card user since 9700pro days and I couldn't care less for dual DVI. There are cards with that, just buy them, I won't for now, no need for them and I'm not the only one, 98% couldn't care less.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: geforcetony
Also, it has been known that adapters can cause weird artifacts. I haven't personally dealt with this as I have a CRT (Viewsonic A90f+ 19"), but I have read that some people have problems with this. Besides, if you really want dual-DVI, then you should be smart enough to look for one, as I have only seen the 1337 doods have dual-DVI setups. I personally could care less whether its a DVI\VGA hybrid vs a dual-DVI card. Just as long as its performance is kick ass!
Yeah, that's why professional workstation cards like the FireGLs use them. :roll:
 

Wolfshanze

Senior member
Jan 21, 2005
767
0
0
no need for them and I'm not the only one, 98% couldn't care less.
This is the bottom line... JackBurton is saying 98% of all computer users should have dual-DVI cards crammed down their throat because of the 2% or less of the market.

Frankly, if you're a nitch computer user (and sorry, but by definition ALL DUAL LCD users are NITCH users), then buy a nitch card with dual DVI and STFU.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: McArra
Then you should search for one and not buy the others. I'm a high end card user since 9700pro days and I couldn't care less for dual DVI. There are cards with that, just buy them, I won't for now, no need for them and I'm not the only one, 98% couldn't care less.
WTF? My whole point is that you have to pay more but get less of a card and less flexibilty.

X800XT PE (PCI-E) dual DVI - $600+
X850XT (PCI-E) DVI/VGA - $480

WTF?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
JackBurton, do you think the price of the X800XT or PE justifies buying it over the X800XL? I guess you must, or you'd snap up an X800XL.
 
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