Seriously, why the hell are video cards even being equipped with a VGA connector?

[McArra]

You can choose another brand that has dual DVI and you are done... I can't see the problem

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Umm, that's why they can package a DVI>VGA adapter. I got one with my 8500. Now what?

Which adds an additional cost to the package, and degrades the analog signal by a tiny bit. If you are running a very high-resolution display, you would want to use a soldered-on VGA socket, rather than having an additional dongle plugged in.

And lastly, there are some very practical reason why using one of those DVI-to-VGA dongles is not an acceptable solution. Speaking from experience here, some people have their computers tucked away in a corner or a cabinet fixture, and those locations lack the extra clearance for an additional 4in past the back of the computer. Worse yet, having those things sticking out increases the leverage and shear force if one were to ... erm... bump the thing while connected. (They don't make those DVI-to-VGA dongles very well either, but in this case, it was probably better that it was a "breakaway" device, if you know what I mean.) Worst part was sourcing a replacement, no-where locally had them.

I suppose that it wouldn't be too horrible, for some mfgs to implement dual DVI ports on the back of the card, one only carrying a DVI-D signal (for LCD), and the other being a DVI-I port, with an included DVI-to-VGA dongle. But I wouldn't buy one of those if I were running a high-res analog CRT. OTOH, that would be a perfect solution for someone choosing dual LCD displays, which is I guess your argument.

I think simply, the market penetration of LCDs just isn't there yet, there are still a LOT of CRTs out in the field today.

 

[LTC8K6]

He can choose ATI, too!

 

[deadseasquirrel]

The 6600GT XFX comes with dual DVI for $180ish.

Dual DVI :thumbsup:

XFX :thumbsdown:

BUT, my dad has been happy with it, so who am I to complain. He has 2 CRTs running dual monitor via the DVI-> VGA converters. No issues whatsoever.

He is, however, having trouble setting up a 3rd CRT to a PCI 3dfx Voodoo3. He said XP found his hardware card and installed the drivers automatically, but that he doesn't see anything on the 3rd monitor. Should he update his 3dfx drivers? What should he do to get the 3rd monitor working?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

#3: of the minority who do have LCDs, you have an even SMALLER fraction of an already small number who have DUAL LCDs (the ONLY people who need dual-DVI).

You can do dual LCDs OR LCD and CRT with dual DVI. You don't even have the OPTION of doing dual DVI with a DVI/VGA card. I think when someone pays $400+ for a card they should at least have that option.

#4: Mabye CRT users don't want extra-long, accident-waiting-to-happen extensions sticking out the back of their case because they're forced to use VGA->DVI converters by the .03% of the computer market who use dual LCD monitors. [/quote]
Maybe CRT users need to be more careful with their PCs. Quadros and FireGLs have had those extensions for a LONG time now. [/quote]
It sounds to me like you simply made the wrong purchase. If you are one of the 0.03% that needs dual-DVI outputs, then perhaps you should have purchased a Quadro or FireGL card with those outputs. Too expensive? Too bad, that's what the market chooses to price those cards for a niche market at. Don't make the rest of us subsidize a tiny minority userbase by raising the cost of more mainstream cards just to provide dual-DVI features for a minority userbase. Eventually, though, such configurations may become more commonplace, and therefore, the incremental cost of them will also come down. But early adopters always pay top price for things.

Edit: Why I can't I fix this? Quoting one block, with two unnamed sub-quote blocks, does not work???

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up with technology advances. Samsung is introducing FLAT CRTs that are MUCH THINNER then current CRTs, and are MUCH CHEAPER then LCDs. Also, there are two or three new organic display technologies that are being introduced that do more then LCDs for same or cheaper price.

Bottom line, you're not keeping up with technological advances, because if you did, you would realize LCDs will never take over the market.

So if you like your LCD, you better hold onto it.

Bottom line is that you are a moron. Those technologies are waay out in the future. LCDs are already on there way to becoming the standard. If you don't believe me, take a look what Dell and HP are packaging with their desktop bundles. Oh look at that, LCDs. AMAZING. Secondly, DVI is NOT just for LCDs (plamsas and DLPs use them too). Most likely, whatever replaces LCDs will be using a digital interface and it may very well be the DVI connection we use today. You're saying analog is the wave of teh future? :roll:

That is the third dumbass post you made and I'm going to have to escort your loser ass out of my thread. Now please DIAF.

 

[LTC8K6]

Those are all analog LCD's though with the Dells and Hpaqs.

X800XL 16 pipes / PCI-E / VIVO / Dual DVI - $369.00

Enough said.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Bottom line is that you are a moron.

Go back and study market economics please. Then come back and say that.

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Most likely, whatever replaces LCDs will be using a digital interface and it may very well be the DVI connection we use today. You're saying analog is the wave of teh future? :roll:

That may well be true, technologically speaking, but right now, the market simply won't support the notably higher incremental-cost necessary to impliment that feature on mainstream products.

Suggestion: Either return whatever card that you purchased, or sell it on Ebay, and then buy one with proper dual-DVI support.

In the future, I actually wouldn't mind seeing cards with two DVI ports and a single analog VGA port sandwiched between them, although I don't know if that would fit on a standard card bracket when you include the mounting screws for each port. The idea being, you could support dual-DVI displays, and a CRT, or an LCD, a CRT, and a newer television display that uses an DVI or HDMI input. This would likely require a third RAMDAC, or a choose two-of-three arrangement, like modern ATI DVI/VGA/TV-out cards are now. But the general line of thinking along that way, would be to drop the composite/S-video video-encoding circuitry and the associated connector, and replace it with its high-resolution digital equivalent for HDTVs. But that's still going to be at least two years or more away, I think. But that would also be the solution to your issue as well. It's just not cost-effective for the mfgs yet though to produce.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up with technology advances. Samsung is introducing FLAT CRTs that are MUCH THINNER then current CRTs, and are MUCH CHEAPER then LCDs. Also, there are two or three new organic display technologies that are being introduced that do more then LCDs for same or cheaper price.

Bottom line, you're not keeping up with technological advances, because if you did, you would realize LCDs will never take over the market.

So if you like your LCD, you better hold onto it.

Bottom line is that you are a moron. Those technologies are waay out in the future. LCDs are already on there way to becoming the standard. If you don't believe me, take a look what Dell and HP are packaging with their desktop bundles. Oh look at that, LCDs. AMAZING. Secondly, DVI is NOT just for LCDs (plamsas and DLPs use them too). Most likely, whatever replaces LCDs will be using a digital interface and it may very well be the DVI connection we use today. You're saying analog is the wave of teh future? :roll:

That is the third dumbass post you made and I'm going to have to escort your loser ass out of my thread. Now please DIAF.

That's a great argument. I'm convinced... dual DVI 4 life!!!!!!!!!!111one

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: JackBurton

#3: of the minority who do have LCDs, you have an even SMALLER fraction of an already small number who have DUAL LCDs (the ONLY people who need dual-DVI).

You can do dual LCDs OR LCD and CRT with dual DVI. You don't even have the OPTION of doing dual DVI with a DVI/VGA card. I think when someone pays $400+ for a card they should at least have that option.

#4: Mabye CRT users don't want extra-long, accident-waiting-to-happen extensions sticking out the back of their case because they're forced to use VGA->DVI converters by the .03% of the computer market who use dual LCD monitors.

Maybe CRT users need to be more careful with their PCs. Quadros and FireGLs have had those extensions for a LONG time now. [/quote]
It sounds to me like you simply made the wrong purchase. If you are one of the 0.03% that needs dual-DVI outputs, then perhaps you should have purchased a Quadro or FireGL card with those outputs. Too expensive? Too bad, that's what the market chooses to price those cards for a niche market at. Don't make the rest of us subsidize a tiny minority userbase by raising the cost of more mainstream cards just to provide dual-DVI features for a minority userbase. Eventually, though, such configurations may become more commonplace, and therefore, the incremental cost of them will also come down. But early adopters always pay top price for things.

Edit: Why I can't I fix this? Quoting one block, with two unnamed sub-quote blocks, does not work???
[/quote]

The only little thing that stopped me was WORKSTATION CARDS SUCK AT GAMES! I HIGHLY doubt it will increase the price of a $500 card, because as deadseasquirrel mentioned you can get a dual DVI 6600GT for $180. Seriously, this arguement should be thrown out the window.

The only possible arguement is that the adapter could break the connector. I think that is pretty weak as you just need to be more careful. LCDs are MUCH more prone to damage that a CRT, but they are taking over the display market VERY quickly.

I think my main problem here is that, when going dual DVI you aren't taking away from CRT user and you gain support of the "niche" market for dual LCDs users. I don't see what the problem is here.

 

[rbV5]

ATI's new MB chipset supports DVI, so it will be maybe a bit less of an issue when some board equipped with DVI onboard start showing up. Adding any PCIe DVI + VGA dual head card would work for dual DVI in that case.

I'd still like to see something cheaper than $600 for a dual link DVI board though.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Hey shut up... don't take away my 15-pin VGA until 17 inch LCD's cost $100.

:thumbsup: :laugh:

edit: my 17" lcd only cost $180...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Bottom line is that you are a moron. Those technologies are waay out in the future.... That is the third dumbass post you made and I'm going to have to escort your loser ass out of my thread

Kiss your mother with that mouth? Wow, and you are a gentleman to boot!

It all depends on your definition of "way in the future"... kinda like LCDs becoming the majority of screens is also "way in the future". As for those crummy bundle deals Dell and HP are doing... those are low-grade LCDs with NO DVI INPUTS most of the time!

You are also the one stating "LCDs" are the wave of the future, not Plasmas or DLPs, and you clearly showed a complete lack of knowledge of the 4th generation CRTs coming out in the immediate future, so don't blame me for your lack of knowledge.

Bottom line, dual-LCD setups are a tiny minority, and it is your own lack of foresight that seems to think everybody else should switch with all the drawbacks and extra costs just to cover your nich hobby because you're too lazy or cheap to pay for the right nich video card which DO exist for you. Sorry bud, economics 101 doesn't work that way. Don't force your nich hobby on the rest of the computer world. You also might want to look into 4th generation CRTs, DLPs and other technologies. In all cases, LCDs will not become the defacto monitor ever, that was your misinformed quote.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up with technology advances. Samsung is introducing FLAT CRTs that are MUCH THINNER then current CRTs, and are MUCH CHEAPER then LCDs. Also, there are two or three new organic display technologies that are being introduced that do more then LCDs for same or cheaper price.

Bottom line, you're not keeping up with technological advances, because if you did, you would realize LCDs will never take over the market.

So if you like your LCD, you better hold onto it.

Yea, and and if you had a good LCD like a 12ms 20inch widescreen you wouldnt be saying that.
Because I've completely given up on CRT technology, a 12ms panel like the 2005 is just as quick as a CRT, you cant tell the difference at all.

It fixes all of CRT downfalls.

I'll take LCD's DVI, ULTRA flat quality, PERFECT geometry all the time, reduced heat, reduced power use, reduced space, the ability to rotate, over a CRT that goes out of focus over the years and produces a less sharp image from the get-go.
Nothing will tear me away from DVI+cleartype.. ever. Besides a better LCD technology.

Not to mention they are better for the environment, but who cares? You dont like to breathe!

And price? 20inch flatpanels w/12ms response are down to around $550.. how much cheaper do you WANT????
The 19" CRTs that cost $100 might get you off, but they suck so damn bad.
Save your money and get something worth purchasing.

Everyone is going LCD, even extreme tightwads I know in real life acknowledge the LCDs ascention to the throne with the 2005fpw/2001fp.. now there is a 2405fpw!!!

Find me a 24" widescreen CRT with all the qualities of the 2405fpw.
Basically, the CRT is trying to match the LCD now!!!

LCD caught up in response rate ect. and now CRT is trying to emulate, so we know who overtook who here.
The vast minority still insists on cheap CRTs, and thats fine (and there are some graphic design ppl who insist on CRTs as well), they'll still make those for you guys.. but LCD is the future for everyone else.

I've said my 2sense.

Irrational hate for LCDs, widescreens, SLI and even as of late, hatred for the NF4!!!
LOL I think ppl hate themselves because they didnt wait for the new technology and are stuck with the old crap.

 

[cbehnken]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Bottom line is that you are a moron. Those technologies are waay out in the future.... That is the third dumbass post you made and I'm going to have to escort your loser ass out of my thread

Kiss your mother with that mouth? Wow, and you are a gentleman to boot!

It all depends on your definition of "way in the future"... kinda like LCDs becoming the majority of screens is also "way in the future". As for those crummy bundle deals Dell and HP are doing... those are low-grade LCDs with NO DVI INPUTS most of the time!

You are also the one stating "LCDs" are the wave of the future, not Plasmas or DLPs, and you clearly showed a complete lack of knowledge of the 4th generation CRTs coming out in the immediate future, so don't blame me for your lack of knowledge.

Bottom line, dual-LCD setups are a tiny minority, and it is your own lack of foresight that seems to think everybody else should switch with all the drawbacks and extra costs just to cover your nich hobby because you're too lazy or cheap to pay for the right nich video card which DO exist for you. Sorry bud, economics 101 doesn't work that way. Don't force your nich hobby on the rest of the computer world. You also might want to look into 4th generation CRTs, DLPs and other technologies. In all cases, LCDs will not become the defacto monitor ever, that was your misinformed quote.

Why are you guys being so retarded about this?

Bottom line is, whether you like CRT/LCD or whatever VGA is a junk connector that only exists because it's been around forever.

DVI is definently the way of the future and the 2 dollars it costs to use dual dvi instead of vga is a dumb thing to argue about.

On a $50.00 video card I understand, but anything much more than $125.00 and it should have dual dvi.

btw, I don't know about you guys, but my 2001FP and a 17" LCD make a perfect setup. I don't want the Radiation King crt staring at my eyes for 16 hours a day. LCDs have a fixed number of pixels in use and therefore are infinently sharper than ANY crt can ever be.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Bottom line is that you are a moron. Those technologies are waay out in the future.... That is the third dumbass post you made and I'm going to have to escort your loser ass out of my thread

Kiss your mother with that mouth? Wow, and you are a gentleman to boot!

I don't know, do you kiss your mom's with yours?

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze
Frankly, if you're a nitch computer user (and sorry, but by definition ALL DUAL LCD users are NITCH users), then buy a nitch card with dual DVI and STFU.

I know you're getting tired of me slapping you around with your own stupid posts, but I'm going to have to continue on.

I'm not going to reply to your last post since it seems like you are derailing the subject. I'll make this simple, how does dual DVI hurt a CRT user? Cost isn't an issue since a dual DVI 6600GT is running at ~$180. I HIGHLY doubt it will add any cost to a $500 card. Signal degredation using an adapter isn't a problem as I have an 8500 and a Sony G500 and don't notice a difference using the DVI>VGA adapter. Is breaking the adapter the main hang up you have for going dual DVI? Is that all you're left with?

And lastly, please post you information on the street date and specs on 4th generation CRTs. If it is what I think you are referring to, we'll see how much I know.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Wolfshanze

Like I said, LCD WILL become the standard very shortly as CRTs are being phased out. So if you like your CRT, you better hold onto it.

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up with technology advances. Samsung is introducing FLAT CRTs that are MUCH THINNER then current CRTs, and are MUCH CHEAPER then LCDs. Also, there are two or three new organic display technologies that are being introduced that do more then LCDs for same or cheaper price.

Bottom line, you're not keeping up with technological advances, because if you did, you would realize LCDs will never take over the market.

So if you like your LCD, you better hold onto it.

Yea, and and if you had a good LCD like a 12ms 20inch widescreen you wouldnt be saying that.
Because I've completely given up on CRT technology, a 12ms panel like the 2005 is just as quick as a CRT, you cant tell the difference at all.

It fixes all of CRT downfalls.

I'll take LCD's DVI, ULTRA flat quality, PERFECT geometry all the time, reduced heat, reduced power use, reduced space, the ability to rotate, over a CRT that goes out of focus over the years and produces a less sharp image from the get-go.
Nothing will tear me away from DVI+cleartype.. ever. Besides a better LCD technology.

Not to mention they are better for the environment, but who cares? You dont like to breathe!

And price? 20inch flatpanels w/12ms response are down to around $550.. how much cheaper do you WANT????
The 19" CRTs that cost $100 might get you off, but they suck so damn bad.
Save your money and get something worth purchasing.

Everyone is going LCD, even extreme tightwads I know in real life acknowledge the LCDs ascention to the throne with the 2005fpw/2001fp.. now there is a 2405fpw!!!

Find me a 24" widescreen CRT with all the qualities of the 2405fpw.
Basically, the CRT is trying to match the LCD now!!!

LCD caught up in response rate ect. and now CRT is trying to emulate, so we know who overtook who here.
The vast minority still insists on cheap CRTs, and thats fine (and there are some graphic design ppl who insist on CRTs as well), they'll still make those for you guys.. but LCD is the future for everyone else.

I've said my 2sense.

Irrational hate for LCDs, widescreens, SLI and even as of late, hatred for the NF4!!!
LOL I think ppl hate themselves because they didnt wait for the new technology and are stuck with the old crap.

No way is as fast as a CRT, but ghosting cannot be apreciated by your/my eyes

 

[housecat]

I'll drop the ownage bomb.
Link

How beautiful is that?
Check that rotated pic out..uhhh now we're talking.

Go rotate yer CRTs

Bottom line is, LCD is here, right now.. where is this flat CRT 4th gen?? Huh??? HUH????
LOL

Bring them, then we'll compare. But until then, LCD rules all. And even then, they will have el-crapo CRT qualities that most of us cant accept anymore.

 

[housecat]

No way as fast as CRT? Hmmmm you dont have a good LCD do you? Oh wait, your bias and el-crapo requirements restrict a purchase that would alleviate your red, ichy eyes from that CRT junk.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: housecat
No way as fast as CRT? Hmmmm you dont have a good LCD do you? Oh wait, your bias and el-crapo requirements restrict a purchase that would alleviate your red, ichy eyes from that CRT junk.

I own a 12ms BenQ that I love and wouldn't change for a CRT, but CRTs are faster than LCDs, another thing is that WE cannot apreciate ghosting in OUR LCDs.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: housecat
I'll drop the ownage bomb.
Link

How beautiful is that?
Check that rotated pic out..uhhh now we're talking.

Go rotate yer CRTs

Bottom line is, LCD is here, right now.. where is this flat CRT 4th gen?? Huh??? HUH????
LOL

Bring them, then we'll compare. But until then, LCD rules all. And even then, they will have el-crapo CRT qualities that most of us cant accept anymore.

You should clean that rig, find a way to hide wires.

 

[housecat]

Oops. I misread.

Well, that attack is meant for someone else then. DIE CRT FANBOYS!!!

sorry mcarra, my hate was blinding me.

 

[slash196]

Uhh...the simple answer to the question posed by the topic title is that most people still use CRTs. However, my video card has dual DVI, and I'm using an adapter, and I don't mind one bit, everything works great.

 

[McArra]

I knew you had understood it badly, I'm not angry at all

 

[housecat]

I'm gonig to clean it up, but I was waiting to get the DFI NF4 instead.

I'm not so sure I'm going to swap out now.. but I'm going to update the pics after I hide the cables.

Its horrible right now, I know.

But now that I figured out this Asus, its not that bad... not the massive OC that I would like but its acceptable I think.

This board and its cards require so many power cords it will take a while to hide them all over on the other side, but I think it can be done.