Server suggestions

[tolis626]

A friend asked me to build him a server today.He insists that I do it because he trusts me for some reason (Although I have repaired his PC countless times).So yeah...Thing is,I have never bothered myself with servers and I need advice.

The first stuff that popped into my head were using a 6-core Xeon (Or even maybe something like the 4930k for keeping costs down),a few WD Blacks or Reds...Then chaos.And the stuff that did come to mind...Not very sure yet.Although I suspect that,for what he wants,even a good PC will suffice...

He wants the machine for hosting game servers (WoW,LoL,DOTA,CoD,etc) and he also wants to have his own website,although with the traffic that it's going to have,he'd probably be okay with anything.I just have no idea what he would actually need to host the stuff he wants.I'm just the hardware guy in all of this.

So suggest away.Any little bit of information counts.One question I do want answered though is,would it need a GPU for something?I mean,apart from displaying stuff on screen.If it doesn't,the most basic ones will do.

PS : This is one of the days I feel really stupid...

 

[Torn Mind]

Disclaimer: I have not built my own dedicated server, although I have set up or tried to set up network shares and know a little about port forwarding and stuff.

Servers really aren't graphically demanding and administering them solely by remote access, such as RDP or SSH, once it is setup is often the way server admins administer their machines.

Absolutely critical to hardware choice is how big the client workload is on the machine. That way you don't burn up too much money going for that Xeon E5 but don't have an inadequate server that "hangs" because it can't handle that many clients. Coinedup, an exchange for cryptocurrencies, for example, had a laggy website that took minutes to display the webpage because whatever their hardware config was, simply could not handle that level of traffic. Of course, that site had to handle a LOT Of people since the mining craze affected a lot of people.

Servers can be run on Windows or one of the various *nix distros--I would not recommend any Ubuntu-based distro since it is too "unstable" for my liking, and that is in a desktop setting. Windows Server does not come very cheap these days, but Linux requires a bit more initial education. I suggest that before sinking one's teeth into new hardware, to try setting up what he wants to do on a spare test rig or virtual machine. This is the development phase. Then, once he gets things figured out, you can start the process of putting the server into production.

Other things to possibly shop for are firewalls and UPSs.

 

[Phantomaniac]

Before even considering the build I would make sure his ISP doesn't block any required ports and his connection is reasonably fast enough. Most consumer ISPs don't have the required upload speed for server hosting, so he may be better off just renting a virtual or dedicated server from a hosting company. If his internet connection is good enough, I would want to know more specifically what games he would be hosting as each game server has its own requirements.

For general advice though? A 6 core CPU is way overkill unless he is virtualizing each game server instance. SSDs will be a big performance boost over HDDs, especially with multiple clients accessing the same files at once. Definitely don't use low RPM power saving drives like WD red/green.

To answer your question no, you definitely wouldn't need a GPU. Integrated graphics is more than enough.

 

[tolis626]

I see...Well,he does play Lineage II (Yeah,still!) so I suppose he wants to host for that.Other than that,he's thinking about WoW,LoL and DOTA.CoD isn't that likely to be in the list.His website...Well,let's just say that I don't expect more than 50 people to visit it.And I'm being optimistic about it.

For storage I'd go with something like a 500GB SSD (maybe a Samsung 840 Pro?) and WD blacks,possibly in Raid-1.Until now I didn't know Reds were low RPM,so I stand corrected.

Regarding the ISP issue,I already told him his home connection just isn't fast enough.Bandwidth in Greece is an endangered species.I supposedly have a 24Mbit line and best case scenario is 13Mbps.There are speeds up to 50Mbps,but crazy expensive.And none really perform as advertised.It's another area that we're seriously behind everyone else...Well,almost everyone.

Could you guys suggest a build?I mean list most essential components you would use.Right now,I'm starting to ditch the high-end idea altogether.I think a good socket 1150 Xeon will do.If it doesn't have an iGPU,something that costs <150€ will go in there (260 or 650ti probably),unless he's more of an idiot that I think and also wants to game on it.In which case I'll probably not do anything.

 

[mvbighead]

Personally, it doesn't sound like what he needs is server grade hardware. If it were me, I'd do two things separately:

1) Build a system out of desktop hardware to create a game server. Build it out of new, good components. i5, 8-16GB of RAM, and a good boot SSD and then a storage volume for the games he wants to have it serve.

2) Find an acceptable web provider with which to host his site and pay the fees for that. Let someone else worry about the connectivity. I would bet there are a number of options that would give him a platform that he wants to work with, that would put the site out there in a very acceptable form. Far easier than trying to do it all from a "server" in his basement.

If he really wants to go the server route, given the different things he is wanting to do, I would strongly suggest ESXi as the platform and just build VMs there. He can then spin up whatever he wants provided he has the space for it, but nothing you've mentioned sounds like it would take that much space.

 

[Insomniator]

Do people still build servers for hosting games? I thought that was over with counterstrike source.

Like... if I had to guess, I'd definitely say all WoW and Dota 2 servers are run by blizzard and valve. I definitely can't create a server for SC2.

 

[tolis626]

Personally, it doesn't sound like what he needs is server grade hardware. If it were me, I'd do two things separately:

1) Build a system out of desktop hardware to create a game server. Build it out of new, good components. i5, 8-16GB of RAM, and a good boot SSD and then a storage volume for the games he wants to have it serve.

2) Find an acceptable web provider with which to host his site and pay the fees for that. Let someone else worry about the connectivity. I would bet there are a number of options that would give him a platform that he wants to work with, that would put the site out there in a very acceptable form. Far easier than trying to do it all from a "server" in his basement.

If he really wants to go the server route, given the different things he is wanting to do, I would strongly suggest ESXi as the platform and just build VMs there. He can then spin up whatever he wants provided he has the space for it, but nothing you've mentioned sounds like it would take that much space.

I tend to agree with you...I just have to deal with someone who...doesn't excercise his brain that much.If it's desktop hardware,I'll have to convince him that "Oh!It's great for what you want it!Probably better than non-3000€ Xeons and things and stuff!" or something along those lines.It won't be true,but still...I dunno.

Do people still build servers for hosting games? I thought that was over with counterstrike source.

Like... if I had to guess, I'd definitely say all WoW and Dota 2 servers are run by blizzard and valve. I definitely can't create a server for SC2.

I have absolutely no idea.I have never bothered myself with hosting games and on top of that I don't even play this kind of game.I'm more of an FPS and action-RPG type of guy.If he wants to do that,I suppose he's at least done his research.However,having individual users host servers when there are already huge server farms available seems kinda dumb.Oh well...

 

[mvbighead]

I tend to agree with you...I just have to deal with someone who...doesn't excercise his brain that much.If it's desktop hardware,I'll have to convince him that "Oh!It's great for what you want it!Probably better than non-3000€ Xeons and things and stuff!" or something along those lines.It won't be true,but still...I dunno.



I have absolutely no idea.I have never bothered myself with hosting games and on top of that I don't even play this kind of game.I'm more of an FPS and action-RPG type of guy.If he wants to do that,I suppose he's at least done his research.However,having individual users host servers when there are already huge server farms available seems kinda dumb.Oh well...

That's just it though, server grade is usually server grade for a reason. Redundancy, fault tolerance, etc. Does someone really need/want that for a game server? I tend to think not.

On the web server side of things, sure. But then you have to look at ISPs, firewalls, etc. etc. Far better to separate the two and let someone else open the door and manage the throughput.

 

[XavierMace]

First off, as somebody already mentioned, most games these days don't let you run your own server. That's not to say some games don't have a workaround, but just having a "server" doesn't mean you can host all your games on it. Nor do they necessarily have an easy button for doing so. Setting up a dedicated server often involved tweaking a lot of config files and often a lot of trial and error.

Regarding bandwidth, depending on the game, 13mbps is more than enough. That said, it's your upload not your download that's usually the issue. That and if your ISP blocks any ports. Typically that's not an issue as most games have a range of ports they can use but it's worth asking the ISP about.

What games he's wanting to host is going to make a huge difference. Does the game have an actual standalone dedicated server application or does the system actually have to launch the game? How many people does he want to be able to play at the same time? Valve dedicated servers take a pretty limited amount of resources and bandwidth. Minecraft takes a shit ton of resources.

Regarding why he wants to.... Publishers taking away the ability to host your own server is basically what killed FPS's for me. I could set up a server that only played the maps/modes/etc that I wanted to play. It always had room for myself and friends to get on and we never had to worry about people hacking, or just general trolling your game. Plus, depending on the game, you could run a modded server. It's obviously not for everyone, but having the ability to control your gaming experience is really nice at times.

 

[tolis626]

That's just it though, server grade is usually server grade for a reason. Redundancy, fault tolerance, etc. Does someone really need/want that for a game server? I tend to think not.

On the web server side of things, sure. But then you have to look at ISPs, firewalls, etc. etc. Far better to separate the two and let someone else open the door and manage the throughput.

First off, as somebody already mentioned, most games these days don't let you run your own server. That's not to say some games don't have a workaround, but just having a "server" doesn't mean you can host all your games on it. Nor do they necessarily have an easy button for doing so. Setting up a dedicated server often involved tweaking a lot of config files and often a lot of trial and error.

Regarding bandwidth, depending on the game, 13mbps is more than enough. That said, it's your upload not your download that's usually the issue. That and if your ISP blocks any ports. Typically that's not an issue as most games have a range of ports they can use but it's worth asking the ISP about.

What games he's wanting to host is going to make a huge difference. Does the game have an actual standalone dedicated server application or does the system actually have to launch the game? How many people does he want to be able to play at the same time? Valve dedicated servers take a pretty limited amount of resources and bandwidth. Minecraft takes a shit ton of resources.

Regarding why he wants to.... Publishers taking away the ability to host your own server is basically what killed FPS's for me. I could set up a server that only played the maps/modes/etc that I wanted to play. It always had room for myself and friends to get on and we never had to worry about people hacking, or just general trolling your game. Plus, depending on the game, you could run a modded server. It's obviously not for everyone, but having the ability to control your gaming experience is really nice at times.

Thanks for the input guys.

As I already said,I suppose he has everything else figured out.He just asked me for the hardware.That's why I don't think about what he wants that much.I've already told him I don't trust Greek ISPs for anything.I mentioned a 13Mbps download speed.I just ran a speedtest.net test and the results are 12.79Mbps download and 0.87Mbps upload.I tend to consider that lame.At best.I mean I can't really seed torrents,it bogs down my whole connection.

Anyway...From what he told me,he's got some delusions about hosting a game with a crapton of people.Most probably,though,it'll be him and his friends.He also thinks he'll somehow make money out of it.I'm at a loss about his thinking process,but I can't dissuade him from it.

So now I'm thinking an Asus Mobo (Z87 Pro or something),a socket 1150 Xeon,32GB of RAM,a pretty basic GPU (Or do 1150 Xeons have iGPUs?) and then leave solving anything else to him.

 

[mvbighead]

Thanks for the input guys.

As I already said,I suppose he has everything else figured out.He just asked me for the hardware.That's why I don't think about what he wants that much.I've already told him I don't trust Greek ISPs for anything.I mentioned a 13Mbps download speed.I just ran a speedtest.net test and the results are 12.79Mbps download and 0.87Mbps upload.I tend to consider that lame.At best.I mean I can't really seed torrents,it bogs down my whole connection.

Anyway...From what he told me,he's got some delusions about hosting a game with a crapton of people.Most probably,though,it'll be him and his friends.He also thinks he'll somehow make money out of it.I'm at a loss about his thinking process,but I can't dissuade him from it.

So now I'm thinking an Asus Mobo (Z87 Pro or something),a socket 1150 Xeon,32GB of RAM,a pretty basic GPU (Or do 1150 Xeons have iGPUs?) and then leave solving anything else to him.

All I can say is, with that kind of pipe, I wouldn't begin to bother. My connection is very similar to that (10mbps DSL), and upload is just terrible.

I used to live in a place where I had a DOCSIS 3 modem with about a 40-60 mbps download and something like a 20+ upload. That connection was SOLID.

All things considered, if he's hosting the game online, he's going to need a MUCH better connection. And throwing a bunch of great hardware into it won't fix the fact that the connection sucks.

 

[Chapbass]

Personally, it doesn't sound like what he needs is server grade hardware. If it were me, I'd do two things separately:

1) Build a system out of desktop hardware to create a game server. Build it out of new, good components. i5, 8-16GB of RAM, and a good boot SSD and then a storage volume for the games he wants to have it serve.

2) Find an acceptable web provider with which to host his site and pay the fees for that. Let someone else worry about the connectivity. I would bet there are a number of options that would give him a platform that he wants to work with, that would put the site out there in a very acceptable form. Far easier than trying to do it all from a "server" in his basement.

If he really wants to go the server route, given the different things he is wanting to do, I would strongly suggest ESXi as the platform and just build VMs there. He can then spin up whatever he wants provided he has the space for it, but nothing you've mentioned sounds like it would take that much space.

This, x1000.

Desktop grade hardware will do everything he wants just fine. He doesn't need server grade hardware. The ESXi route isn't a bad idea, but even with that you can do a whitebox with desktop grade hardware (check the compatibility guide) and itll work just fine.

For example, my two servers I use for my vmware lab are:

Core i5 3470
32GB ram
5 intel nics
ASRock Pro3 Socket 1155 MB

annnddd thats about it. Storage is done by my SAN. But in your case, just build one box, one nic, a 4770k or something like that, 32GB memory, and maybe an SSD or two. Call it a day.

Install ESXi on it, then you can do whatever you want. Even a wow server probably doesn't need more than 10GB memory or something, so you should be just fine.

 

[Chapbass]

Thanks for the input guys.

As I already said,I suppose he has everything else figured out.He just asked me for the hardware.That's why I don't think about what he wants that much.I've already told him I don't trust Greek ISPs for anything.I mentioned a 13Mbps download speed.I just ran a speedtest.net test and the results are 12.79Mbps download and 0.87Mbps upload.I tend to consider that lame.At best.I mean I can't really seed torrents,it bogs down my whole connection.

Anyway...From what he told me,he's got some delusions about hosting a game with a crapton of people.Most probably,though,it'll be him and his friends.He also thinks he'll somehow make money out of it.I'm at a loss about his thinking process,but I can't dissuade him from it.

So now I'm thinking an Asus Mobo (Z87 Pro or something),a socket 1150 Xeon,32GB of RAM,a pretty basic GPU (Or do 1150 Xeons have iGPUs?) and then leave solving anything else to him.

Oh christ, I didn't see the rest of this thread. With that kind of upload...skip it.

If you do want to go with it, that build looks pretty good (see my other post).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Seriously, with that many reservations about it, I wouldn't bother. Your friend has a "dream" that he wants you to fulfill, and given the issues, when it doesn't work out for him, he'll blame you. Therefore, I wouldn't have anything to do with it. Even if he's paying you. (Even worse if he's paying you - he'll want his money back.)

 

[tolis626]

Oh christ, I didn't see the rest of this thread. With that kind of upload...skip it.

If you do want to go with it, that build looks pretty good (see my other post).

That's about my home DSL connection,but it's a good representative of what people get around here.It's the third ISP I changed in the last 3 years and I still get more or less the same results.I just think he may have a special line or something.If not,it's just not possible and I've already told him so since the beginning.

 

[mfenn]

Seriously, with that many reservations about it, I wouldn't bother. Your friend has a "dream" that he wants you to fulfill, and given the issues, when it doesn't work out for him, he'll blame you. Therefore, I wouldn't have anything to do with it. Even if he's paying you. (Even worse if he's paying you - he'll want his money back.)

Pretty much this.

OP, don't host Internet-facing services off a residential connection. It's just not worth the headache. Amazon EC2 has a datacenter in Ireland with endpoints throughout Europe. Just fire up an instance there and call it good.

Cloud services like EC2 are nice for this kind of "playing around" usage. Once your friend gets tired of it, he can just turn it off and stop paying for it. Versus physical hardware where he's stuck with the box.

 

[XavierMace]

Yeah, that upload is going to prevent you from running any sort of even semi serious game server.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Most of the games that do let you do your own server hosting also have rent-a-servers available.

http://www.gameservers.com/game_servers/

And so forth.

(I'm not really one to talk - there's a minecraft server on the bookshelf under my printer.)