Sessions Says 'Zero Tolerance' For Illegal Border Crossers, Vows To Divide Families

[Noah Abrams]

Agreed. I just feel we need to lock down the boarders and offer amnesty to those here at the same time. Then creates some kind of guest worker visa program that meets the needs of both migrant workers, their families and the industries that want to employ them for work Americans don't seem to want to do. I've met tons of hard working day laborers and farm workers in California doing jobs most Americans won't touch. They are an asset to our economy we shouldn't mistreat or lock out of our country.

Not just California, but everywhere else too. A lot of them are very hard working people.

The libertarians believe in open borders and I can see where that comes from. But I don't see that reasonable in the current socio-economic status of our country.

The border is a not a door though. It can't be locked down. You can't lock down an area of 2000 miles as if it is a door. There are other countries in the world too with the same situation where the size or terrain or both of the border makes it impossible to close it.

So basically there is no solution. This will just go on like this. Neither side will do anything or rather, wants to do anything meaningful. 30 years from now if forums are still around, people will be doing the same arguing that many of us are. And perhaps 300 years from now too.

 

[Paladin3]

Not just California, but everywhere else too. A lot of them are very hard working people.

The libertarians believe in open borders and I can see where that comes from. But I don't see that reasonable in the current socio-economic status of our country.

The border is a not a door though. It can't be locked down. You can't lock down an area of 2000 miles as if it is a door. There are other countries in the world too with the same situation where the size or terrain or both of the border makes it impossible to close it.

So basically there is no solution. This will just go on like this. Neither side will do anything or rather, wants to do anything meaningful. 30 years from now if forums are still around, people will be doing the same arguing that many of us are. And perhaps 300 years from now too.

Yeah, I've only lived in California and North Idaho, but I'm sure lots of areas could use a ready workforce for jobs Americans won't take. If we make it easy enough to gain access to a guest worker visa program and hard enough to cross illegally, with a guarantee you will be sent back if caught, then that should incentivize immigrants to cross legally unless they are involved in something else criminal. At that point we are separating the drug smugglers and criminals from those honestly looking for work.

We can have well regulated and controlled boarders without closing them or turning away folks ready to work jobs that Americans wont take. And it would be a win-win if we can let our border patrol concentrate on catching real criminals rather then immigrant workers.

I fully understand the moral desire to see those who break our laws punished, but sometimes we do so to our own detriment.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Yeah, I've only lived in California and North Idaho, but I'm sure lots of areas could use a ready workforce for jobs Americans won't take. If we make it easy enough to gain access to a guest worker visa program and hard enough to cross illegally, with a guarantee you will be sent back if caught, then that should incentivize immigrants to cross legally unless they are involved in something else criminal. At that point we are separating the drug smugglers and criminals from those honestly looking for work.

We can have well regulated and controlled boarders without closing them or turning away folks ready to work jobs that Americans wont take. And it would be a win-win if we can let our border patrol concentrate on catching real criminals rather then immigrant workers.

I fully understand the moral desire to see those who break our laws punished, but sometimes we do so to our own detriment.

I like your posts. You talk reasonably and sensibly. What you say above is the best possible solution to it in the present circumstances

 

[Incorruptible]

The illegal border crossers must be sent back, they go on welfare and cost the taxpayer too much money. They need to apply and come in legally but the liberals don't want that.

 

[Jhhnn]

The illegal border crossers must be sent back, they go on welfare and cost the taxpayer too much money.

Mere assertion.

They need to apply and come in legally but the liberals don't want that.

Like any of that will actually happen. Maybe we can hypnotize all all of the ones already here into just leaving, or round up 10% of the population of Greater LA, for example. Yeh, that'll work. And it makes total sense to deport the 7M or so who've lived peaceably among us for over 10 years. Like, totally, man. Fuck their American Citizen families, too. Shoulda picked better parents.

Fuck the Dreamers. Fuck the Salvadoran refugees who've been here since 2001. Fuck all those icky brown bastids & make America White again.

 

[Darwin333]

I say just send the men back. Let the women, regardless if they are mothers or not, remain. Maybe it solves two problems in one, the guys that can't get laid from the other thread (I can't remember the name) have a larger pool and their men won't be taking our jerbs.

 

[zinfamous]

The illegal border crossers must be sent back, they go on welfare and cost the taxpayer too much money. They need to apply and come in legally but the liberals don't want that.

How do they go on welfare if they have no ID or SSN and if, by reality, they would be avoiding all contact with the Federal government? Are these the same illegals that are doing all the illegal voting, too?

 

[Mxylplyx]

I can understand the abject cruelty espoused by many conservatives these days, because they have enough distance from it where they don't have to seriously contemplate the actual human suffering caused by the policies they support. For instance, they want to bomb the shit out of the middle east, but never have to witness, or even contemplate the countless times people had to go mop up the remains of entire families wiped out by an errant bomb strike. In this case, where do they find the actual people willing to cruelly pry apart a child from his or her mother, inducing terror in both the parent and child as they are pulled apart in a foreign land after an already traumatic journey across the border, with the aim of doing nothing more than inflicting emotional distress in order to send a message to other potential border crossers? I find it hard to believe anyone that has children, or a soul, could willingly participate in that, and for those that do, seriously....fuck them. If people would refuse to staff the child detention centers and other apparatus's that make this possible, it would not be possible. People supporting shit like this while also claiming to be god fearing Christians makes me sick. Jesus would curse all of them if he wasn't required to love them.

 

[K1052]

When somebody eventually chronicles the thoughtless casual cruelty of this administration Kelly is going to wind up with his own chapter in that book "or whatever".

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yeah, I've only lived in California and North Idaho, but I'm sure lots of areas could use a ready workforce for jobs Americans won't take. If we make it easy enough to gain access to a guest worker visa program and hard enough to cross illegally, with a guarantee you will be sent back if caught, then that should incentivize immigrants to cross legally unless they are involved in something else criminal. At that point we are separating the drug smugglers and criminals from those honestly looking for work.

We can have well regulated and controlled boarders without closing them or turning away folks ready to work jobs that Americans wont take. And it would be a win-win if we can let our border patrol concentrate on catching real criminals rather then immigrant workers.

I fully understand the moral desire to see those who break our laws punished, but sometimes we do so to our own detriment.

Whatever happened to competition makes us better? Americans, or rather the ones bitching about immigration, are fat lazy slobs that know they'd lose out because they're shit people.

You think that will keep drug smugglers out? You do know there are "full" Americans with high paying jobs (or at least jobs that they're not struggling to survive on the pay) that smuggle drugs, right? Most of the illegals doing that type of stuff are not doing it because they want to or plan on making it a consistent job. They do it because that's one way to get help to get into America. Many of them once they get here go to do their own thing, and only do that if they're desperate. Many of them are even specifically fleeing that stuff happening in their own country, and a lot (not sure it'd be a majority today) of it is because its Americans' drug habits and our government's insistence on doing what has been proven to not work, it hurting America and destroying American lives on a scale not seen in any war or any other situation, be damned!

I don't understand that at all, because I don't know of anyone that thinks our laws are all good, let alone doesn't believe our justice system is basically straight fucked. The people pushing that type of thought tend to just be assholes. They'll decry gun laws and support people like the Bundy's who are doing exactly the shit they're bitching about immigrants for. Its just blatant hypocrisy and they don't care.

I was watching Wild Wild Country on Netflix, and while you can certainly have legitimate criticisms of the Rajneesh (who, much like every other society, the mass of ignorant people enabled the powerful to do heinous things), it was appalling how many people (including people in the government) felt that them just not liking someone was good enough to get them to support whatever means to do something about them (including talking about shooting them; oh and committing voter fraud, straight up there were Americans looking to orchestrate a plan to commit mass voter fraud). It really shows how cult mentality is and has been fairly mainstream in America for decades. The similarities between what those people were spouting and what the cults do and say was interesting, and scary. Really makes you realize how totally fully completely bullshit America being the "land of the free" is as a claim. It is why its not surprising how things have been going. I'm more shocked that people are shocked that there's a large portion of our population that willingly falls into cult like mentality and is willing to fuck even themselves over just so they can chant their bullshit, even when they know its bullshit.

How do they go on welfare if they have no ID or SSN and if, by reality, they would be avoiding all contact with the Federal government? Are these the same illegals that are doing all the illegal voting, too?

Hey now, don't let little things like facts get in the way.

I can understand the abject cruelty espoused by many conservatives these days, because they have enough distance from it where they don't have to seriously contemplate the actual human suffering caused by the policies they support. For instance, they want to bomb the shit out of the middle east, but never have to witness, or even contemplate the countless times people had to go mop up the remains of entire families wiped out by an errant bomb strike. In this case, where do they find the actual people willing to cruelly pry apart a child from his or her mother, inducing terror in both the parent and child as they are pulled apart in a foreign land after an already traumatic journey across the border, with the aim of doing nothing more than inflicting emotional distress in order to send a message to other potential border crossers? I find it hard to believe anyone that has children, or a soul, could willingly participate in that, and for those that do, seriously....fuck them. If people would refuse to staff the child detention centers and other apparatus's that make this possible, it would not be possible. People supporting shit like this while also claiming to be god fearing Christians makes me sick. Jesus would curse all of them if he wasn't required to love them.

I think you're partially right. The thing is, they genuinely believe that they suffer in their lives every bit as much (and often far more) as anyone else does, and therefore they feel completely justified in pushing whatever because, hey everyone has to suffer, its God's will!

 

[darkswordsman17]

When somebody eventually chronicles the thoughtless casual cruelty of this administration Kelly is going to wind up with his own chapter in that book "or whatever".

Hey they've gotta enable their pedophiles and abusers who hide under the guise of their religion. Abuse (including sexual abuse) is sadly really rampant in foster care. And there's a lot of politicians that want to enable it by making it so that religious foster programs/person are basically exempt from oversight.

 

[K1052]

Hey they've gotta enable their pedophiles and abusers who hide under the guise of their religion. Abuse (including sexual abuse) is sadly really rampant in foster care. And there's a lot of politicians that want to enable it by making it so that religious foster programs/person are basically exempt from oversight.

Well the party of traditional values or whatever.

 

[Moonbeam]

Alles in ordnung!

Must eliminate error! Must eliminate error! Must eliminate error! You know Nomad in The Changeling, right.

 

[Paladin3]

Whatever happened to competition makes us better? -SNIP-

I'm not sure if you are espousing the idea of competition or are accusing me of such.

Anyway, reasonable competition makes us better, but not when it allows some of us to be winners at the expense of the losers. What happens to those losers if they end up as disenfranchised, dependent and possibly criminal elements forced to the fringes of society? We can't allow lack of compassion or excessive competition to create a large underclass of "losers." Society cannot afford such, and I say that as someone who believes in the philosophy of personal responsibility.

Even if we need to offer a big helping hand, it is in societies best interest to do everything we can to educate, help, cajole and respectfully push people into making choices that will turn them into productive, self-supporting members of society. It's in everyone's best interest, even if it rankles some who love the idea of winners and losers. Competition is at it's most helpful when it spurs us all on to do better.

But I can tell by the excessive hate and name calling in the rest of your post that I snipped that you kinda like the idea of fat, lazy, slob losers. Man, you need to learn to love yourself before you can love others, or someone can love you in return.

 

[Jhhnn]

We can't allow lack of compassion or excessive competition to create a large underclass of "losers." Society cannot afford such, and I say that as someone who believes in the philosophy of personal responsibility.

We already have. See table 5-

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2015 Update | Tax Foundation

The income share of the bottom 50% has fallen by nearly 1/3 since 1980 & that of the 50-75% by roughly 1/5. It went to the top 1% instead, whose share more than doubled. Most of that went to the top .1%.

So, y'all need to keep looking the other way while the right wing financial elite & the GOP finish beating the cash out of the middle class. Every fucking penny they can get. So long as you have somebody to look down on you won't notice that your pockets are getting picked.....

 

[Paladin3]

We already have. See table 5-

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2015 Update | Tax Foundation

The income share of the bottom 50% has fallen by nearly 1/3 since 1980 & that of the 50-75% by roughly 1/5. It went to the top 1% instead, whose share more than doubled. Most of that went to the top .1%.

So, y'all need to keep looking the other way while the right wing financial elite & the GOP finish beating the cash out of the middle class. Every fucking penny they can get. So long as you have somebody to look down on you won't notice that your pockets are getting picked.....

WoW! I must get you a medal for so skillfully taking one tiny part of my post and misrepresenting it to imply I advocate something ugly that is exactly the opposite of what I said. And you simultaneously made me, a person of Mexican heritage, into a racist, xenophobic, ignorant member of the GOP. Did I suck the Donald's dick last week, too? If so let me know so I can get my $130k.

All the practice is paying off and you are getting good at this. Here's a cookie:

 

[Jhhnn]

WoW! I must get you a medal for so skillfully taking one tiny part of my post and misrepresenting it to imply I advocate something ugly that is exactly the opposite of what I said. And you simultaneously made me, a person of Mexican heritage, into a racist, xenophobic, ignorant member of the GOP. Did I suck the Donald's dick last week, too? If so let me know so I can get my $130k.

All the practice is paying off and you are getting good at this. Here's a cookie:

I apologize for putting it in personal terms. I shouldn't have used a generic "You" when referring to GOP voters. You deserved better. I will edit the post or let it stand as you prefer.

 

[Paladin3]

I apologize for putting it in personal terms. I shouldn't have used a generic "You" when referring to GOP voters. You deserved better. I will edit the post or let it stand as you prefer.

I apologize as well for the harsh words of my last post. It's too easy to forget there is a human being on the other side of the keyboard when replying, especially when trying to express our frustrations over folks on the extreme edges of the political and moral spectrum.

 

[MrSquished]

Agreed. I just feel we need to lock down the boarders and offer amnesty to those here at the same time. Then creates some kind of guest worker visa program that meets the needs of both migrant workers, their families and the industries that want to employ them for work Americans don't seem to want to do. I've met tons of hard working day laborers and farm workers in California doing jobs most Americans won't touch. They are an asset to our economy we shouldn't mistreat or lock out of our country.

This but also increase wages in various industries so that 'Americans' are willing to do more of that work. We can't create a verified economic sub-class of imported workers. Like they do in some of the rich countries in the middle east.

 

[Paladin3]

This but also increase wages in various industries so that 'Americans' are willing to do more of that work. We can't create a verified economic sub-class of imported workers. Like they do in some of the rich countries in the middle east.

Agreed, but I'm not sure we can just blanket raise wages for jobs like farm labor beyond the already established minimum wages to attract Americans. Not unless we want to pay a lot more for produce. Any program has to have reasonable controls so workers are not abused. I've met undocumented migrant workers in California who come here for the picking seasons then go back to Mexico in the off-season. If that works for them now, then getting that system above board so taxes can be paid and workers protected it seems like a win all around. Administrating such a system wouldn't be simple, but it's better than outright closing borders or allowing uncontrolled immigration.

 

[Jhhnn]

Agreed, but I'm not sure we can just blanket raise wages for jobs like farm labor beyond the already established minimum wages to attract Americans. Not unless we want to pay a lot more for produce. Any program has to have reasonable controls so workers are not abused. I've met undocumented migrant workers in California who come here for the picking seasons then go back to Mexico in the off-season. If that works for them now, then getting that system above board so taxes can be paid and workers protected it seems like a win all around. Administrating such a system wouldn't be simple, but it's better than outright closing borders or allowing uncontrolled immigration.

Trump already torpedoed the existing system-

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-crab-visa-shortage-20180502-story.html

Just one example. I'm sure there are more.

 

[MrSquished]

Trump already torpedoed the existing system-

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-crab-visa-shortage-20180502-story.html

Just one example. I'm sure there are more.

kentucky.com had one on a landscaper company owner having problems getting workers through the same program

 

[Zaap]

Won't someone please cry a tear for Big Agra and their lack of workers? *sniffle*

Meanwhile, when that wool is pulled back:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/31/agribusiness-exploitation-undocumented-labor

The agribusiness sector has gotten away with exploitative and illegal practices because of ridiculous threats, like the suggestion that should the supply of cheap labor dry up in the US, they will outsource our food production to China. This idle threat is based on the absurd notion that if they have to pay workers higher wages, somehow there will be fewer people willing to do the jobs. The other scare tactic is spreading talk that if they have to increase their expenditure on labor, those costs will have to be passed on to the American consumer.

Several studies have been conducted, however, that expose these hollow threats for the nonsense that they are. A report by the Congressional Research Service (pdf) found no evidence of a labor shortage in the agricultural sector. On the contrary, it found that between 1994 and 2008, the unemployment rate for farm workers was consistently higher than for all other occupations. In other words, agriculture has had a surplus of available workers for decades.

During this period, the agricultural industry has recorded a nearly 80% average annual increase in profits – more than all other major industries. No doubt, these record profits have something to do with the fact that real wages for farm workers have remained stagnant throughout this time. Finally, a 2011 report by the Economic Policy Institute found that an increase in farm workers' wages of 40% would result in an annual rise in household spending by the American consumer of just $16.

Now back to the wringing of hands over the plight of poor poor BigAgra and their gravy train. Back to ramblings about "jobs Americans won't do" (for peanuts and shit conditions) how no country on earth can feed itself without Mexico next door -an astounding trick of geography- and how no one can afford food IF blah de blah, just like how your own job is based on no one affording the product you pull fully formed out of the ground, unless your boss pays you shit and works you from before sunup to long past sundown. You know, universal truths and all...

 

[Puffnstuff]

My first exposure to migrant farm workers was back in the 70's and they were the folks laboring out in the fields. Later on I witnessed manual labor on chicken farms in the south which was primarily Caucasians so go figure. Nobody should be allowed to prosper from illegal labor.

 

[dainthomas]

The illegal border crossers must be sent back, they go on welfare and cost the taxpayer too much money. They need to apply and come in legally but the liberals don't want that.

Are they going on welfare or stealing our jerbs? So confusing.