Shanghai now shipping

[Viditor]

eWeek

"AMD, which struggled to correct the problems associated with its quad-core Opteron processors known as Barcelona, is now starting to ship its new 45-nanometer Shanghai processor to partners. In interviews, AMD executives say it was important to get Shanghai into the hands of its partners early to avoid the errors that crippled the launch of Barcelona in 2007"

Another nugget in the article:

"Within Shanghai's instructional set, Patla said AMD added a feature to enhance virtualization called a world switch enhancement. This technology will allow the system to access larger memory pages for virtual machines, which is important as the memory systems of high-end systems continue to increase to support more and more virtual environments. This virtualization enhancement also allows the system to switch between different virtual machines and take advantage of larger and faster memory sizes"

 

[Martimus]

Awesome. We should have benches in no time then.

 

[harpoon84]

No doubt AMD wants reviews in before Nehalem hits. First impressions are everything.

Is Deneb still a Jan 09 launch?

 

[Andrew1990]

Good news, cant wait till Benchies. Just to be sure, this is the server version of the new phenoms?

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Good news, cant wait till Benchies. Just to be sure, this is the server version of the new phenoms?

Yes.

This is great, I hope Deneb is not far off- I don't really want to shell out on Triple channel DDR3 and an X58.

 

[taltamir]

with the DDR3 and X58 and a min of 300$ per chip nehalem has (totals close to 1000$), the shanghai would be in an entirely different price category from nehalem. Heck, it would probably even be able to compete with the Q6600 pricewise.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: taltamir
with the DDR3 and X58 and a min of 300$ per chip nehalem has (totals close to 1000$), the shanghai would be in an entirely different price category from nehalem. Heck, it would probably even be able to compete with the Q6600 pricewise.

Which is not a good thing for AMD. As long as they have to compete primarily on price they are at a disadvantage.

I sure hope they can ramp the clocks on these things very quickly, or else they are going to relegated to the bargain bin. AMD needs to have some pricing power right now.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: taltamir
with the DDR3 and X58 and a min of 300$ per chip nehalem has (totals close to 1000$), the shanghai would be in an entirely different price category from nehalem. Heck, it would probably even be able to compete with the Q6600 pricewise.

Close to $1000? You can conceivably build an i7 platform for around $700.

X58 mobos will be ~$300 (more for the top end models, but entry level X58 mobos like the Intel Smackover starts from ~$280)

i920 will be $284, but lets assume ~$300 due to markups.

3 x 1GB DDR3-1333 costs about $100.

All up thats about $700.

I highly doubt Shanghai (or Deneb) will be priced anywhere close to Q6600 levels, you don't seriously expect AMD's new flagship chip to cost under $200 do you? That would only happen if it was an absolute dog and performed barely above 9950BE levels, which I'm sure will not happen.

If the performance gains are anywhere as big as touted (35% all up, including IPC + clockspeed gains) then a 3GHz Deneb will have absolutely no problem competing against or beating a Q9550 or Q9650, and these sell for $316 and $530 currently. Of course there is Nehalem as well... which thankfully won't be quite as exorbitantly priced as you suggested.

 

[Cookie Monster]

That is still expensive IMO for what you get. Not to mention decent quality DDR3 modules cost a fortune, and i doubt people will be getting 3x1GB configs (especially when your previous rig had a system memory config of 2x2GB).

Back on topic, Shanghai vs Harpertown. Place your bets.

Just like with the barcelona launch, AT will probably try to simulate the hypothetical performance of Deneb by using Shanghai as a preview of what to expect.

 

[JaBro999]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

I sure hope they can ramp the clocks on these things very quickly, or else they are going to relegated to the bargain bin. AMD needs to have some pricing power right now.

No doubt that AMD's margins for desktop CPU's have taken a beating from Core 2 in the last few years, but the real threat to AMD from Nehalem is in the server space. Even with the somewhat disappointing performance of Barcelona, AMD is able to still charge a relative premium for their server CPUs (esp. 4/8 socket). When 2 and 4 socket Nehalems start shipping, AMD stands to loose even more if it cannot get Shanghai out the door in great shape.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
That is still expensive IMO for what you get. Not to mention decent quality DDR3 modules cost a fortune, and i doubt people will be getting 3x1GB configs (especially when your previous rig had a system memory config of 2x2GB).

I don't disagree, Nehalem won't be winning many price/performance comparisons except in select multi-threaded apps.

Back on topic, Shanghai vs Harpertown. Place your bets.

Since we're talking server chips, I'd say Shanghai, easily. Current Optys are already very competitive against Harpertown.

Just like with the barcelona launch, AT will probably try to simulate the hypothetical performance of Deneb by using Shanghai as a preview of what to expect.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[faxon]

any news from the AT article writers on when they will be getting samples? i would really like to see benchmarks on this since it will give me an idea of what to expect performance wise vs nehalem and penryn vs deneb when deneb launches. im still using my A64 4000+ and i REALLY need a good rig to replace it for my media transcoding/ripping needs. i have probably a month of nonstop ripping ahead of me once i get a decent quad core with 4 DVD drives (Yes 4 im not kidding) for the ripping of the several hundred dvds and several hundred more CDs i still have to go through. i havent ripped ANY of my dvds yet and only a handful of my CDs are ripped to FLAC, and once i have everything ripped i need to figure out if im going to transcode any of it down to MP3s or .avi or some other format for whatever im using at the time, plus of course a new gaming rig that i can overclock the shit out of. i need something to drool over while im working on the custom paint job on my armor full tower guys!

 

[BLaber]

Originally posted by: Martimus
Awesome. We should have benches in no time then.

So we can expect to see some benchmarks say within this week ???

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: taltamir
with the DDR3 and X58 and a min of 300$ per chip nehalem has (totals close to 1000$), the shanghai would be in an entirely different price category from nehalem. Heck, it would probably even be able to compete with the Q6600 pricewise.

Which is not a good thing for AMD. As long as they have to compete primarily on price they are at a disadvantage.

I sure hope they can ramp the clocks on these things very quickly, or else they are going to relegated to the bargain bin. AMD needs to have some pricing power right now.

but how much of that price goes to intel? sure they get paid for the X58 chip, but not the entire board, and they get nothing of the DDR3 price.
I meant it is a good thing for AMD that they are using DDR2, etc... this means that they can turn similar profits on the chip (at least at the low end) while having it much cheaper due to using simpler components from other companies that they don't see a dime for.

 

[nyker96]

i7s are simply too expensive for majority of people current company included. If AMD has a decent quad on hand I think it would be cheaper for me to upgrade to it ffrom my dual core wolf. that of course is taking into account keeping of DDR2s, selling off the board+cpu etc costs.

I wish they "leacked" some benchs for this thing. Since they normally 'leak' when they think they got a superior product on hand.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: nyker96
i7s are simply too expensive for majority of people current company included. If AMD has a decent quad on hand I think it would be cheaper for me to upgrade to it ffrom my dual core wolf. that of course is taking into account keeping of DDR2s, selling off the board+cpu etc costs.

I wish they "leacked" some benchs for this thing. Since they normally 'leak' when they think they got a superior product on hand.

Screw the leaking, bring on the actual performance reviews. They got nothing to lose.

If Deneb performs like Phenom then it won't matter whether folks have confirmation of this now or on Jan 9.

If it performs like Yorkfield or Nehalem then it helps AMD and hurts Intel to broadcast this data now even though the release date is Jan 9 as a competitive Deneb will convince some would-be Nehalem/Yorkfield buyers to delay avoid purchasing Intel and delay a few months to buy AMD.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: nyker96
i7s are simply too expensive for majority of people current company included. If AMD has a decent quad on hand I think it would be cheaper for me to upgrade to it ffrom my dual core wolf. that of course is taking into account keeping of DDR2s, selling off the board+cpu etc costs.

I wish they "leacked" some benchs for this thing. Since they normally 'leak' when they think they got a superior product on hand.

Screw the leaking, bring on the actual performance reviews. They got nothing to lose.

If Deneb performs like Phenom then it won't matter whether folks have confirmation of this now or on Jan 9.

If it performs like Yorkfield or Nehalem then it helps AMD and hurts Intel to broadcast this data now even though the release date is Jan 9 as a competitive Deneb will convince some would-be Nehalem/Yorkfield buyers to delay avoid purchasing Intel and delay a few months to buy AMD.

I agree, and disagree at the same time. What they have to lose is current sales of Phenom processors for people who will just wait for the updated version. Of course they don't have that many sales of current Phenom processors, so it may not be a big deal - but that is the crux. They need that little business they currently have and can't afford to take any dip in income, since they are in such finacial disarray. So I can see both sides of it. Release good benches now to lower sales of the competition and increase sales for yourself when the product is released; or keep good performance under wraps to try to keep from bleeding too much from the potential loss of sales in the meantime. If they were in a better position, I think the first option would be a no-brainer, but sometimes you have to go into survival mode. Of course, the processor could just be a dog as well.

 

[HopJokey]

Odd the article linked is dated 9/30/2008 and we haven't heard much about the server parts yet.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I am pulling hard for AMD. I want comp. I also want to make a shitload of $$$. I am buying more stock . I will chase all the way to the bottom. This is really a risky move buy me . How risky. Well when Apple was setting in nomans land. $5+ I bought 2000 shares. Than Apple entered the music industry the rest is history. My wife was shocked by this . She said when did move to high risk investments. I told her IT was just gut feeling .

I am not comfortable with chasing AMD down but what the hay . Shorting NV like I did and its sudden drop has me feeling cocky.

The thing is Viditor ya made it sound like This chip is shipping for sales right now . Be a little more responsiable about this stuff. OK . I am with ya on this . But don't overplay this thing .

Viditor things are not always as it seems. There are several problems here. Even tho I want AMD to do well . There are things I strongly oppose and your going to here alot more about it . In near future.

1. Number one is AMD is breaking its agreement with Intel . NOT GOOD.

2. This deal has to be approved. I am not so sure the US will approve of ARABS getting this tech .

3. This is the one thats got me upset. If New York state Gives the Arabs the same deal for the newyork fab as they offerred AMD . All hell will brake lose. AMD is broke. The arabs have all the money they need. It won't set well. IN the USA I don't know how the people of NEW york will take it. But 9/11 will way in on this one.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Back on topic, Shanghai vs Harpertown. Place your bets.

Since we're talking server chips, I'd say Shanghai, easily. Current Optys are already very competitive against Harpertown.

depends on the harpertown, and who has both systems.

My friends harper which i helped him aquire would gobble shangi like no tomorrow.



http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=416916

Think 4 x E8600 on 1 machine overclocked.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Back on topic, Shanghai vs Harpertown. Place your bets.

Since we're talking server chips, I'd say Shanghai, easily. Current Optys are already very competitive against Harpertown.

depends on the harpertown, and who has both systems.

My friends harper which i helped him aquire would gobble shangi like no tomorrow.



http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=416916

Think 4 x E8600 on 1 machine overclocked.

I imagine most system admins aren't sitting in their data centers overclocking their servers though.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I imagine most system admins aren't sitting in their data centers overclocking their servers though.

Not if they know what they are getting paid for.

I'm sure many a IT career has been obliterated by the eager to please OC'ing renegade out to save his company money or given them better performance for the same money...only to wonder in amazement why they got fired for making an executive decision to bring liability onto the company by voiding warranties or worse (corrupted math calcs at an engineering firm is not FTW).

But the smart ones are the folks who do what they are supposed to with their budget and responsibility to be prudent with their employer's equipment and there won't be any overclocking there.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I am pulling hard for AMD. I want comp. I also want to make a shitload of $$$. I am buying more stock . I will chase all the way to the bottom. This is really a risky move buy me . How risky. Well when Apple was setting in nomans land. $5+ I bought 2000 shares. Than Apple entered the music industry the rest is history. My wife was shocked by this . She said when did move to high risk investments. I told her IT was just gut feeling .

I am not comfortable with chasing AMD down but what the hay . Shorting NV like I did and its sudden drop has me feeling cocky.

Isn't that the sure sign of an impending bad deal? Lucky success followed by a dash of arrogance and the day trader is born...quick to part with his $$$? I'm sure you are being a bit less cavalier in reality versus the impression you give here, but I get nervous anytime folks go against their own trading strategy one a whimsy.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
1. Number one is AMD is breaking its agreement with Intel . NOT GOOD.

It appears that this could be true, although the fact a lawsuit/injunction/etc has not been filed yet makes me think otherwise.

Intel has a problem if AMD goes out of business, so they may very well be the wiser to accommodate this move by AMD and continue to deal with the enemy they know versus the alternative of AMD going out of business and then dealing with the unknown (i.e. DOJ says bust-it-up boyz)

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
2. This deal has to be approved. I am not so sure the US will approve of ARABS getting this tech .

Isn't that getting a tad xenophobic? State secrets and nuke plants have been stolen/purchased for far less than $6B.

Besides anyone can buy the chips on the open market already, and if they really wanted the secrets then surely they could dangle a few million (not billion) in front of the right people with the knowledge and greed to sell out.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
3. This is the one thats got me upset. If New York state Gives the Arabs the same deal for the newyork fab as they offerred AMD . All hell will brake lose. AMD is broke. The arabs have all the money they need. It won't set well. IN the USA I don't know how the people of NEW york will take it. But 9/11 will way in on this one.

I haven't seen a 9/11 report yet that condemns or implicates every Arabian with those terrorist acts.

The NY deal wasn't offered to AMD because AMD was USA based. It was offered to AMD because NY wanted the jobs that the fab represents. Those jobs are still on the table. If NY wants the jobs then one would hope they can muster the intestinal fortitude to hide their xenophobic prejudice better than anonymous posters do on the interwebz and proceed getting that fab built.

Ireland certainly had no xenophobia issues giving Intel sweetheart tax breaks to get the fab built there, and they got 5,000 jobs in exchange.

 

[nyker96]

imaging this baby can perform like nahelem only at a fraction of total system cost. Now that will make the mighty Intel sleepless for a few quarters and make the quads a common item on anyone's budget. sub $100 quads anyone?

 

[tim924]

We dont need to imagine,it's almost as certain as a fact that Deneb will post no threat to Core i7 as the past experience of AMD's performance showed us.Imagination and reality are two different things.

 

[taltamir]

past experience? they had ONE failed product in a line of huge successes. And recently their largest success yet in the video card department, AND they got rid of hector ruin... AND they are getting billions in investment money from united arab emirates... why would they NOT succeed?