Shelby Cobra and Viper

[MJinZ]

Anyone know about this guy's obsession with snakes?

I always wondered what the Mustang had anything to do with snakes. Apparently it was just Shelby's name for his own version of the Mustang or whatever.

Then he went on to help develop the Dodge Viper.

Maybe just likes snakes? :ninja:

 

[LordMorpheus]

I didn't know that Shelby was involved with the Dodge Viper. Cool.

Quite a resume for that man.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Snakes are dangerous and thus make for good performance car names. Likewise, its why Razer is obsessed with snake and spider names/words.

Shelby had long worked with Ford, and later he worked with Chrysler (there's 80s Shelby performance versions of some of their cars). He also did a bit of work with GM (used the Aurora V8 in the Series 1). I actually don't know if Shelby had much to do with the Mustang Cobra

There were other Dodge concepts with snake names, the Copperhead (think a car like the Pontiac Solstice) and Sidewinder (convertible pickup that had a Viper engine and badass flame treaded tires), although they came later.

Also of note, the Viper was also developed with Lamborghini help (they helped do the engine). Of course Chrysler owned them at the time so it made sense.

 

[exdeath]

Shelby doesn't do anything anymore, they just market the name now, he's pretty much the whored out Lucas/THX of the car world. He had zero engineering input on the GT500, all he did was show up to pose with it at the publicity rally.

SVT did all the work on modern Ford Cobras, Shelby just stole the credit on the latest so Ford could charge more for it. I don't care what he did (or did he?) 50 years ago, 100% of my respect goes out the window when a washed out has been becomes a badge whore.

 

[TehMac]

Shelby doesn't do anything anymore, they just market the name now, he's pretty much the whored out Lucas/THX of the car world. He had zero engineering input on the GT500, all he did was show up to pose with it at the publicity rally.

SVT did all the work on modern Ford Cobras, Shelby just stole the credit on the latest so Ford could charge more for it. I don't care what he did (or did he?) 50 years ago, 100% of my respect goes out the window when a washed out has been becomes a badge whore.

tragically, I'm leaning towards your sentiments, BUT, he did make some of the most epically awesome street legal race cars EVER.

His Daytona Coupe is one of my favorite cars ever. Although that was a team of Hot Rodders (who says Americans can't make proper sports cars?) Shelby provided the energy and vision, not to mention the drive to assemble the team.


The '65 and '68 GT350s are my favorite Mustangs ever, closely followed by the Boss 302 (Larry Shinoda is awesome, RIP man). His 1964 Shelby Cobra is my favorite automobile of all time, I want to build that car with a 331 efi stroker with new suspension/chassis.


As far as the Cobra Mustang goes--which one? There were the Cobra Jets which were not engineered by Shelby, the Cobra Jets were made by a brilliant Dealer named Tasca who sold Fords in Rhode Island. Shelby used the Cobra Jets but he didn't come up with them.

The '90's-2000's Cobra Mustang was all done by Ford's Special Vehicle Team.

The 69-70 Shelby Mustangs with the SuperCobraJet (kinda makes me want one just for the name) were made in Dearborn with limited (some say none) input from Shelby.

Also of note, the Viper was also developed with Lamborghini help (they helped do the engine). Of course Chrysler owned them at the time so it made sense.

Interestingly I heard this was disputed, because the engine started out as an old truck V8 that was a pushrod. So Lambo couldn't really have done anything, because I don't think pushrods were really their forte at all.

The V8 block literally had another two cylinders welded to it and that served as the prototype for the rest of the production blocks.

 

[TehMac]

btw, this thread is useless without pics, so here are some:

The 1965 Shelby GT350 (I rank this above the '68, but really like both)

1968 Shelby GT 350

Boss 302 raced by Dan Gurney and Team Shelby. The Boss 302 program was steered by Larry Shinoda who really told Ford what performance was all about

And here is the car I want to reproduce/replicate/build/restomod.
The 1964 Shelby Cobra

 

[madeuce]

Does a 1989 "shelby" Daytona belong with this list?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Interestingly I heard this was disputed, because the engine started out as an old truck V8 that was a pushrod. So Lambo couldn't really have done anything, because I don't think pushrods were really their forte at all.

The V8 block literally had another two cylinders welded to it and that served as the prototype for the rest of the production blocks.

Its true it started out as a truck engine, but Chrysler didn't have the ability (well didn't want to spend the money to do it themselves, and since they had bought Lamborghini they figured who better to help out) to do a decent job of making it into an aluminum performance based engine, so they had Lamborghini take the truck engine and cast it and the heads in aluminum. It was still a beast, weighing over 700lbs (the more recent one is down to about 500 I believe). You have to remember, it was just a concept and those often did not make production back then, so it didn't make sense to do an in depth development of an engine, which is why even in aluminum it was still heavy, and not that terribly powerful (truth be told, the V12s Lamborghini was using at the time were similar in they were very heavy and output wasn't as good as it should have been).

The early Vipers were pretty much kit cars, and were actually scary to drive as the platform really wasn't developed much (they just relied on sticking a big powerful engine in a small/light car with big tires and a rough performance suspension).

Originally I loved the V10, but now, I wish they had just gone with a V8, it would have sounded better, and it has other advantages (and Chrysler can make a good V8).

The Daytona actually served as inspiration for the GTS.

To be honest, I think the comparison of Shelby and Lucas is a good fit, as the cars that Shelby really was the brain behind were great ideas but tended to be poor in implementation and needed a lot of development by other people for them to turn out great. I'd liken the Series 1 to Episode 1, it was flashy and there were some cool aspects, but it really did not live up to the name. The Viper would be Indiana Jones, and the Cobra would be the original Star Wars.

 

[TehMac]

I guess what I like about Shelby is that when he was starting off, he just liked toying around with stuff. He never said, "is this not aerodynamic enough?" or "how will I sell this to women?" he was just interested in making cool looking cars that ripped tires and turned heads. I think that really sums it up. He just liked taking a platform with some verve and then making it awesomer.


The last version of the Dodge Viper is still my favorite though. Love the look

Originally I loved the V10, but now, I wish they had just gone with a V8, it would have sounded better, and it has other advantages (and Chrysler can make a good V8).

Sort of agree with you. I like the unique nature of the V10, it's a beast of an engine. Back in the '90's, these V8s were still not all that powerful, so Chrysler's decision to up the ante in terms of brute displacement makes sense.

Now though, I'd really like to see that Viper successor have a V8 engine. Possibly a 7.0L HEMI or a 6.4L at least.

Maybe even a pushrod V8 (hey, just go back to the original V8 with new fuel injection + heads).

The Viper imo has really emerged into a class of its own and I hope Chrysler keeps the next iteration the same way.

 

[TehMac]

I got so excited, I double poasted

 

[darkswordsman17]

I guess what I like about Shelby is that when he was starting off, he just liked toying around with stuff. He never said, "is this not aerodynamic enough?" or "how will I sell this to women?" he was just interested in making cool looking cars that ripped tires and turned heads. I think that really sums it up. He just liked taking a platform with some verve and then making it awesomer.


The last version of the Dodge Viper is still my favorite though. Love the look




Sort of agree with you. I like the unique nature of the V10, it's a beast of an engine. Back in the '90's, these V8s were still not all that powerful, so Chrysler's decision to up the ante in terms of brute displacement makes sense.

Now though, I'd really like to see that Viper successor have a V8 engine. Possibly a 7.0L HEMI or a 6.4L at least.

Maybe even a pushrod V8 (hey, just go back to the original V8 with new fuel injection + heads).

The Viper imo has really emerged into a class of its own and I hope Chrysler keeps the next iteration the same way.

I agree, the V10 was perfect for the original Viper, it really set it apart, and with the state of V-8s of the time, yeah I don't think a V-8 made great sense (and its also great that they didn't just stick the Lambo V-12 in it).

With the next car, I hope they just focus on the original idea (big powerful torquey engine in a lightweight body with wide tires). Get Ferrari to help with the chassis, just keep it simple and fairly computer free. This way, they can make an amazing car with excellent performance but it won't really be competing with Ferrari, and will stay true to the car and have its niche. I actually wouldn't mind some computer help, so long as they have an off switch for it.

I'm not sure that I care too much about what they do with the engine, I won't have a problem with another V-10, but a V-8 would be ok as well.

 

[c3p0]

Two cars that should be in the Automotive Hall of Fame if there were such a thing. Don't really care much about who was envolved in their development. Just like how they turned out.

c3p0

 

[TehMac]

Well with hot cams even the 5.7L from chrysler can be tuned to get 600 hp, so Chrysler should have no problem getting a competitive number of horsepowers out of the 6.4L V8 if they choose to go that route.

Ferrari should stick with the perverse electronic crap with their double clutch autos, while the Viper's succesor should continue on with limited electronic crap and just straight up kickass old school performance.

 

[CraigRT]

Does a 1989 "shelby" Daytona belong with this list?

Long live turbo Dodges... I love 'em

 

[thedarkwolf]

Does a 1989 "shelby" Daytona belong with this list?

No that was more of his badge whoring. Some of the 80s dodges are true Shelbys though

GLHS, omni and charger based
CSX, shadow based
Shelby Lancer, there is also a Lancer Shelby that is just a badge
Those were all bought by Shelby and modified in his factory and then resold through dodge dealers.
Oh and he also did a Shelby Dakota truck.

Then there are the
GLH another omni based car
Charger Shelby
Which were built by dodge but Shelby came up with the ideas and or helped out a lot

Then you have the Daytona Shelby and Lancer Shelby that he had nothing to do with other than dodge sticking the same turbo engines in them that were also used in the true Shelbys. They stuck those turbo engines in everything including my 89 dodge caravan though.

 

[lavaheadache]

No that was more of his badge whoring. Some of the 80s dodges are true Shelbys though

GLHS, omni and charger based
CSX, shadow based
Shelby Lancer, there is also a Lancer Shelby that is just a badge
Those were all bought by Shelby and modified in his factory and then resold through dodge dealers.
Oh and he also did a Shelby Dakota truck.

Then there are the
GLH another omni based car
Charger Shelby
Which were built by dodge but Shelby came up with the ideas and or helped out a lot

Then you have the Daytona Shelby and Lancer Shelby that he had nothing to do with other than dodge sticking the same turbo engines in them that were also used in the true Shelbys. They stuck those turbo engines in everything including my 89 dodge caravan though.

caravans did not have the turbo 2 motor(intercooled) just the turbo 1

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Lesser known Shelbys:

The Series 1 used an Olds Aurora DOHC V8 that made about 320HP. The Dakota was the first to come with a V8 (170HP TBI), the latter ones came with 3" longer noses instead of the electric cooling fan. The Viper had an extra 10HP and some other minor mods. (google RT/10 CS)

 

[thedarkwolf]

caravans did not have the turbo 2 motor(intercooled) just the turbo 1

Still pretty much the same thing. Yes I know all the differences which aren't many.