Should 8 y/o boy be allowed to wear a dress, use a female name, and use female restrooms at school?

[radhak]

Okay - so I don't know about you - but I have a pretty good recollection of my youth in elementary school days. How often did you feel sexually aroused by any gender, or any topic of conversation? None? Oh yeah, because it's literally impossible to feel something that you do not yet understand. You don't even have the hormones that would allow for such a thing to declare. There are no "signs", what you're referring to is just mistaken for attention whoring. It's okay for you to stand up and say "I don't know what my child is feeling or doing" when it comes to a topic. You don't need to take them to a psychologist or declare that they are a female in a male body - it's simply the process of growing up.

I'd say a majority of kids develop crushes at a very young age, and it's almost certain to be directed to the gender of sexual preference.

I still remember my 1st grade teacher as a very cute lady, and my mom still laughs at the fact that when that teacher announced her impending wedding I had a huge tantrum and melt-down, both at school and later at home. In 2nd grade I was also part of group of 6 boys sent to the Principal, caught cutting out boob pictures from some Hollywood gossip magazine. I daresay if at that age (6? 7?) I had a crush for a male teacher, or accumulated penis pictures, it would have been noticed; and also, if that led to reprimands or punishments, a kid would remember to hide it or be miserable.

Nothing unusual for an 8 year old to understand what her heart wants.

 

[mikeymikec]

It's time to cut the bullshit and stop calling people male and female and start with X/Y and X/X.

You can't change that. Sick of this bullshit that there are more than 2 genders.

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

Yup, time to cut the bullshit dude.

 

[Svnla]

Why are we (as a nation) suddenly into this bathroom/half and half/this or that sex/etc. lately?

I do not remember all of this commotion when I was younger.

 

[purbeast0]

Why are we (as a nation) suddenly into this bathroom/half and half/this or that sex/etc. lately?

I do not remember all of this commotion when I was younger.

Social media.

It gives people a platform to voice their opinion, as if it has any meaning to anyone but themself, when in reality, nobody gives a shit.

 

[shortylickens]

Why are we (as a nation) suddenly into this bathroom/half and half/this or that sex/etc. lately?

I do not remember all of this commotion when I was younger.

Transexuals and such didnt feel like standing up for themselves back in the 80's.

 

[Aharami]

I'm all in favor of equal rights and protection under the law for trans people, but an 8 year old trans? 8 year olds don't know anything about anything, let alone what gender they "should" be.

Teach the child that gender identity is a complicated issue, they can identify as whatever gender they please, even go so far as to undergo hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery, but they should decide on these life altering actions WHEN THEY'RE AN ADULT. Until then, dress as a girl if you please, but no one has to call you she or go out of their way to accommodate what could be the temporary whims of a small child.

maybe because the parents figure if their child identified as a female, it will be easier if she grows up as one, instead of growing up as a male and then switching at 18.

 

[Aharami]

If I had to make a theory, I would guess his sister was getting more attention so he wanted to reverse it and be the attention whore than his parents focus on more.

wtf?! nice way to talk about an 8 yr old. stay classy, s0me0nesmind1

 

[Craig234]

Bunch of stupid assholes in this thread (not that I expected any different).

I was pretty shocked. I thought ignorance had been reduced a lot more.

 

[boomerang]

IMO, this thread is running under the wrong sub-forum.

Why the change in what has historically been defined as mental illness? Who has driven that change and for what reasons? Why has the focus shifted towards the political aspects and away from the medical aspects? What's most important is asking whether encouraging this is helpful or harmful to these individuals. And it should not be looked at short term. The long term statistics are dismal. Encouraging people to pursue gender identity changes is not being supportive. This isn't helping, it's hurting.

But politics has won out.

Don't read the following unless you have an open mind.

http://www.americanthinker.com/arti...tics_out_of_classifying_mental_disorders.html

 

[Pulsar]

IMO, this thread is running under the wrong sub-forum.

Why the change in what has historically been defined as mental illness? Who has driven that change and for what reasons? Why has the focus shifted towards the political aspects and away from the medical aspects? What's most important is asking whether encouraging this is helpful or harmful to these individuals. And it should not be looked at short term. The long term statistics are dismal. Encouraging people to pursue gender identity changes is not being supportive. This isn't helping, it's hurting.

But politics has won out.

Don't read the following unless you have an open mind.

http://www.americanthinker.com/arti...tics_out_of_classifying_mental_disorders.html

Ok. Serious question. If someone can live a happy life without hurting others (or themselves), why would we classify them as 'mentally ill'? A physical illness can be easily classified. A 'Mental Illness' is a subjective call. You're trying to basically say what is normal versus what is abnormal. And whatever is abnormal, we classify as ill.

The piece you linked doesn't require an 'open mind'. It requires a blind belief that these people are infallible: that they haven't and will never classify an 'illness' that isn't really an illness. All based on what they believe is normal.

A lot of people with open minds have issues with that. Doctors aren't infallible. They make mistakes all the time. And in case you didn't know it, the medical profession is drowning in politics. Studies, drugs, corporations...... Frankly, I don't think we have enough experience to be able to say that current policies on gender reassignment are a bad thing.

And on a final note - most studies that conclude that there are increased risks with sex reassignment also acknowledge that there are definite benefits in many cases. They also suggest that improved mental care after reassignment will improve the outcomes.

 

[leper84]

Call it what it is-

Letting a minor cross-dress or 'change' genders is child abuse. They are in no position to comprehend a decision of that magnitude, encouraging it before they can is sick and disgusting.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Call it what it is-

Letting a minor cross-dress or 'change' genders is child abuse. They are in no position to comprehend a decision of that magnitude, encouraging it before they can is sick and disgusting.

Yea we need to send them to war so they can die for the rich people first before they go making those adult decisions.

I don't exactly disagree with you, but the point is I don't think it is as black and white as 'legal adult age'.

 

[mikeymikec]

Call it what it is-

Letting a minor cross-dress or 'change' genders is child abuse.

If a girl puts on 'male' clothes or vice versa, they're abusing themselves? Is that really the position you're arguing? If so, please cite reliable sources stating the damage being done when this occurs.

At any rate, I think this thread has reached the point where ignorant people come to post for the first time despite the fact that their viewpoints have already been countered and they don't bother to read the thread first.

 

[justoh]

Sure. Why not?

because hateful idiots will give them crap for it? "They shouldn't be doing that because we and others like us will abuse them if they do" is more threat than argument.

 

[mikeymikec]

Sure. Why not?

because hateful idiots will give them crap for it? "They shouldn't be doing that because we and others like us will abuse them if they do" is more threat than argument.

I'm not sure who you're responding to here.

 

[child of wonder]

Children can't sign legal contracts, get tattoos, get married, or commit to other life altering decisions because we all agree at such a young age they aren't fully capable of making informed decisions. This is the same thing that fuels my opinion against allowing an 8 year old to be trans or, at least, be trans to a degree that requires hormone blockers, surgery, or other life altering methods. Be who you want to be, parents don't encourage it or force it down their throat, but also teach your child that no one else has to accept your decision or make special accommodations for you (though many decent people will) and any that they do should be accepted with gratitude.

Personally I support equality for trans people, them using whatever bathroom they want, serving in the military, etc. and, despite my feelings regarding this 8 year old, I would treat him and his parents with respect, such as using masculine pronouns even though he is biologically female. Where I draw the line is FORCING, under threat of civil suit or, what many are pushing for, criminal charges, a private school to do the same because an 8 year old biological girl currently demands to be treated as a boy.

However, what gets unqualified, hateful morons like Trump elected and people fleeing the Democratic party is that when people of good conscious have a simple disagreement on matters like this they're immediately labeled "ignorant," "hateful," "bigoted," "transphobic," "sexist," "racist," "homophobic," and so on. You're no better than the divisive, obstructionist Republicans that blocked Obama at every turn for 6 years because they hated him so much. Obama could have proposed a bill against choking infants to death and the Republicans would have blocked it.

This useless and damaging rhetoric needs to stop. Our country is being destroyed because of it.

 

[jackstar7]

People fighting against freedom. Cool cool cool.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Children can't sign legal contracts, get tattoos, get married, or commit to other life altering decisions because we all agree at such a young age they aren't fully capable of making informed decisions. This is the same thing that fuels my opinion against allowing an 8 year old to be trans or, at least, be trans to a degree that requires hormone blockers, surgery, or other life altering methods. Be who you want to be, parents don't encourage it or force it down their throat, but also teach your child that no one else has to accept your decision or make special accommodations for you (though many decent people will) and any that they do should be accepted with gratitude.

Personally I support equality for trans people, them using whatever bathroom they want, serving in the military, etc. and, despite my feelings regarding this 8 year old, I would treat him and his parents with respect, such as using masculine pronouns even though he is biologically female. Where I draw the line is FORCING, under threat of civil suit or, what many are pushing for, criminal charges, a private school to do the same because an 8 year old biological girl currently demands to be treated as a boy.

However, what gets unqualified, hateful morons like Trump elected and people fleeing the Democratic party is that when people of good conscious have a simple disagreement on matters like this they're immediately labeled "ignorant," "hateful," "bigoted," "transphobic," "sexist," "racist," "homophobic," and so on. You're no better than the divisive, obstructionist Republicans that blocked Obama at every turn for 6 years because they hated him so much. Obama could have proposed a bill against choking infants to death and the Republicans would have blocked it.

This useless and damaging rhetoric needs to stop. Our country is being destroyed because of it.

Pretty much exactly where I stand on this. This isn't about preventing trans people, it's about protecting children that could be severely fucking up the rest of their life because you're trusting that they have thought everything through at the age of 8. I'm sorry, but you're absolutely retarded if you think an 8-year old can evaluate a decision like this - and this will be way more damaging than any early marriage would do.

 

[Viper GTS]

Nobody is suggesting that we permanently modify 8 year olds. About the most I've seen is drugs to delay the onset of puberty to allow them time to make a decision (avoiding the permanent impacts of puberty) and the possibility of surgery in mid/late teens:

http://www.oregonlive.com/transgender-health/2017/07/about_a_boy_jays_life_as_a_tra.html

Nothing in the original story suggests anything more than allowing an 8 year old to try out what they think they want, which is kind of what being 8 is about.

Viper GTS

 

[BudAshes]

Don't know and I'm glad it's not my problem.

 

[mikeymikec]

Children can't sign legal contracts, get tattoos, get married, or commit to other life altering decisions because we all agree at such a young age they aren't fully capable of making informed decisions. This is the same thing that fuels my opinion against allowing an 8 year old to be trans or, at least, be trans to a degree that requires hormone blockers, surgery, or other life altering methods. Be who you want to be, parents don't encourage it or force it down their throat, but also teach your child that no one else has to accept your decision or make special accommodations for you (though many decent people will) and any that they do should be accepted with gratitude.

Personally I support equality for trans people, them using whatever bathroom they want, serving in the military, etc. and, despite my feelings regarding this 8 year old, I would treat him and his parents with respect, such as using masculine pronouns even though he is biologically female. Where I draw the line is FORCING, under threat of civil suit or, what many are pushing for, criminal charges, a private school to do the same because an 8 year old biological girl currently demands to be treated as a boy.

However, what gets unqualified, hateful morons like Trump elected and people fleeing the Democratic party is that when people of good conscious have a simple disagreement on matters like this they're immediately labeled "ignorant," "hateful," "bigoted," "transphobic," "sexist," "racist," "homophobic," and so on. You're no better than the divisive, obstructionist Republicans that blocked Obama at every turn for 6 years because they hated him so much. Obama could have proposed a bill against choking infants to death and the Republicans would have blocked it.

This useless and damaging rhetoric needs to stop. Our country is being destroyed because of it.

Since the OP article hasn't mentioned anything to do with any long-term or permanent modifications I fail to see how most of this is relevant to the topic. Minors being given such modifications is an entirely different question, and IMO should be left to the professionals.

AFAIK what gets people labelled as bigoted on this topic is when they say that an adult's gender depends on the genitalia they were born with and no amount of anything constituting artificial modifications will ever change that. People with such attitudes are going to be just as bigoted towards an 8-year-old without such modifications as they are towards adults with every modification known to science. I bet that even if it was possible to alter a woman to have a fully functional penis (including reproductive capabilities) and every other visible 'womanly' indicator altered to look male, people would still say "that's a woman" (if they found out what they consider to be "the truth").

If one accepts that there is such a thing as a transperson (ie. someone born with the genitalia of the gender that they don't identify as), then the fact of the matter is that regardless of the genitalia and other bodily sexual characteristics, one must logically accept that even before artificial modifications, that person is trans: Partly because for that person their physical characteristics have never factored into their gender identity, and also because even trans questions aside, humanity does not automatically label a man without a penis as not a man or a woman without female genitalia or breasts as not a woman. Functionality of physical gender characteristics (reproductive or sexual) don't determine it for almost all people either: A sterile man is still a man, an impotent man is still a man, and a post menopausal woman is still a woman (except maybe in the opinions of a tiny percentage of whack-jobs), etc.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Pretty much exactly where I stand on this. This isn't about preventing trans people, it's about protecting children that could be severely fucking up the rest of their life because you're trusting that they have thought everything through at the age of 8. I'm sorry, but you're absolutely retarded if you think an 8-year old can evaluate a decision like this - and this will be way more damaging than any early marriage would do.

Er, we 'let' them be straight, we 'let' them identify as their born gender, why prevent them from identifying as what they feel is natural?

This might surprise you, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Adults have been failing to prevent children from doing $stuff for a few thousand years. Attempting to stop the flow of society is just going to make your head hurt.

 

[Darwin333]

The elementary school I went to was for gifted kids in math/science. So maybe those kids were more developed mentally compared to your experience.

He has a point. It isn't until puberty that your pecker really starts pointing towards the people you are attracted to. I can't imagine that a kid in elementary school would know that he was gay.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

He has a point. It isn't until puberty that your pecker really starts pointing towards the people you are attracted to. I can't imagine that a kid in elementary school would know that he was gay.

Uhh, elementary school is still 1st-6th right? So like what, age 5/6-11/12? That top end is easily around puberty for plenty of people. Hell, I knew people in 6th grade that had sex. I also know that my BIL knew he was gay in elementary school.

 

[mikeymikec]

Uhh, elementary school is still 1st-6th right? So like what, age 5/6-11/12? That top end is easily around puberty for plenty of people. Hell, I knew people in 6th grade that had sex. I also know that my BIL knew he was gay in elementary school.

Furthermore, while I'd consider myself to have been a late developer, I had an experience at the age of 6 or thereabouts that I sure as shit didn't fully understand then but I do now! That's all I'm going to say on that topic.