my pleasure
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130575
The same price as the HD 6870
$240
Anand or i would be remiss not to include it
And it is a preview of what is to come from Nvidia to counter the AMD 600 series.
the card was available earlier and popular cards sale out all the time after price reductions. heck they had a gtx470 go on sale today and that did not last more than a few hours. also since most of the 6850 cards sold out was that a stunt too?You know. Out of stock.
How surprising is it?
I dont know about you, but Anand as a professional should have known beforehand that this situation would happen. This is a PR stunt. This is a non-existing card by all practical terms.
What this leads to is NV and AMD sending cards to review that is only sold in very limiting numbers.
The results will be, that the consumers will buy the stock clock, or far below 850, and get less for their money.
Excactly the intention of the move from NV.
Mission acomplished. Worse situation for the consumers.
The real world fact is here. Its obvious you shouldnt include a card that will not be sold in measurable numbers.
Your brought the facts here. Thank you.
the card was available earlier and popular cards sale out all the time after price reductions. heck they had a gtx470 go on sale today and that did not last more than a few hours. also since most of the 6850 cards sold out was that a stunt too?
anybody with with one good eye can see that the FTW card is just a factory overlclocked model at the same price range as the 6870 so whats the big deal. not to mention a regular gtx460 was also used. if someone is too ignorant to figure these things out then buying a video card is probably the least of their problems.
lol what? there are several cards that sell out from time to time. I have been looking at gtx460 cards for weeks and I don't see the FTW card being out of stock any more than most other ones. heck there are several other gtx460 cards out of stock at the moment too. that is because they reduced the prices so duh.Look at the facts. The 850 parts is only sold in very limited numbers. Fact. Care to argue about that?
No professional expect the 850 parts to be sold in measurable numbers. The consumers cant buy product that is only on the shelves for 4 hours each week. They buy volume products, as seen by the numbers in the steam survey.
You cant buy a non existing product. Thats the deal.
that is because they reduced the prices so duh.
duh just means it "should be obvious" or "what did you expect".Can anyone explain this phrase or colloquialism for me please? The nearest I'm getting is "soda" or "so d'oh".
Can anyone explain this phrase or colloquialism for me please? The nearest I'm getting is "soda" or "so d'oh".
There are very few EVGA GTX 460's left because of Anand's articleNo one answered because it's rhetorical at best and a straw man at worst. It has been pointed out that there are in actuality very few 850MHz GTX-460. Price isn't the argument.
I noticed that the GTX-470 is not included in your review, while the GTX-460 FTW was. Exactly as nVidia wanted. How does a stock GTX-470 compare to the GTX-460 FTW? Not too well, and nVidia I'm sure thanks you for not making that comparison. Just as much as they thank you for using the highest O/C GTX-460 for comparison to the 6800. nVidia should have zero say in the review of an AMD card!
You know. Out of stock.
How surprising is it?
You can't buy a Sapphire or Gigabyte 6850 at newegg today either, even though you could yesterday (along with the FTW). People went card shopping yesterday.
Edit: also, see above (notty22), the other 850mhz FTW is in stock for $10 more, at $240 (item N82E16814130581)
The sapphire and gigabyte, using clocks available on all 68xx cards, being out of stock is not equivalent to the EVGA FTW being out of stock.
There are still exatly 34 evga gtx460 FTW EE cards in stock as of this post. $10 more than the non-EE version, but still comes with the $10 MIR which, in the end, still makes it cheaper than the hd6870.
That still misses the point that the EVGA FTW is by it's design a limited and limited availability card and represents a very very small percentage of the 460GTX cards available.
If this kind of manufacture influence is condoned by bowing to it in reviews like anandtechs then where does the limited special version OC cards lead future review landscapes?
Everytime nVidia or AMD release a new card a limited production and/or cherry picked run of cards are going to be used to compare it to? I would hope not. Those limited edition cards don't have to adhere to the same market conditions as the stock cards, or more reasonable OC versions of stock cards, that are expected to be widely available and have established pricing. The inclusion of cherry picked cards to be included at the discretion of the manufactures, nVidia in the case, in the review of competitors products shows a clear inbalance and conflict of consumer interest. It is definitively the wrong course of action to take. Anand likely realizes this by this point in time.
Could nVidia subsidize and influence market pricing on a very small portion of 460 cards such as the EVGA 460 FTW to manipulate market conditions and or the percieved value of their entire 460 product lineup?
Given the EVGA 460 FTW is such a small volume part by it's nature, as compared to the stock variant of it's main competitor, I think including it, especially given it's inclusion at the suggestion of nVidia is the wrong picture to present if these review sites want to be taken seriously.
You go down this path and we are going to have a ridiculous mess everytime a new GPU is released. nVidia or AMD are now given free reign to send "ringer cards" to be included in these reviews that do not have to adhere to the same market conditions as the card they are being reviewed against. This would/will/has been done in an attempt to sabotage the competitors launch as nVidia has done in this case.
AMD sent me a HD 5870 PCS+ the week that i was reviewing the GTX 480 under NDA.
No to all of the above imo
- Should i have not used my *overclocked* HD 5870 in reviews versus GTX 480?
- Was i being unfair to Nvidia by including it in my reviews?
- Was AMD being unethical by sending me an OVERCLOCKED HD 5870 while i was reviewing GTX 480 for my readers?
()
I can see where this would promote manufactures to seed limited production "ringer" cards to review sites. Limited production cards that don't need to adhere to the same market conditions and pricing as the competitors stock version it is being reviewed against.
The EVGA FTW 460 has a 30% OC on it's Core.
Stock 460 650mhz core
Evga 460 FTW 850mhz core
The 5870pcs+ has a 3% OC on it's COre
Stock 5870 850mhz core
Powercolor 5870pcs+ 875mhz core.
I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make, but it seems clear that the EVGA FTW card represents a significant, above and beyond, difference as compared to a stock card than what the powercolor 5870pcs+ represents to its stock version.
3% OC vs 30% OC, that is astonishing to say the least. Good for the EVGA FTW, but my point still stands about the confusiion the inclusion of these cards leads to in reviews. You just compared an OC card to an OC card to justify their inclusion. Only the OC cards aren't really the same, at all.
Edit: Nice review at ABT btw, very detailed. Above and beyond what I saw at most any other review site.
AMD sent me a HD 5870 PCS+ the week that i was reviewing the GTX 480 under NDA.
- Should i have not used my *overclocked* HD 5870 in reviews versus GTX 480?
- Was i being unfair to Nvidia by including it in my reviews?
- Was AMD being unethical by sending me an OVERCLOCKED HD 5870 while i was reviewing GTX 480 for my readers?
No to all of the above imo
()
Did ATI request the use of that card in the Nvidia review? Did anyone consider using the Sapphire Radeon HD5850 Toxic in the 470/480 review?
Does Nvidia send "guidelines" to the hardware review sites, telling what settings to use? Does ATI/AMD?
Why on some reviews there's no overclocking of the reference cards done and in some other there is?
Also that EVGA card is not available in most of the world, there are more countries than the USA.
A lot of options were missing from that poll including, "i think it is a great idea to include ALL relevant cards and benchmarks"i havent read through the 14 pages of this thread, but i think another option is missing from the poll: include OCed cards only alongside the stock cards, and from both camps.
that way you get the perspective about stock performance and you can see if the reviewed product can OC beyond the OC of its competitor.
why do get this feeling that a lot of complainers against Anand are AMD homers???
Somehow, seeing an older OC'ed card can give their "next gen" card a beating... does not sit well with AMD homers. hehe
A lot of options were missing from that poll including, "i think it is a great idea to include ALL relevant cards and benchmarks"
:thumbsup:
i did what you suggested in my own review - but ultimately it boils down to each individual reviewer and the amount of time and energy they have to do the review.
i wish i had 3 weeks to evaluate these cards - not just one.
Stop watering it down people saying is a available card, blah, blah. The core of the problem has NOTHING to do with the card in iself.
Anandtech has always held certain principals when it comes to their reviews. One of those those principals included occasions NOT to use such a card in their reviews (That review would have been one of those occasions).
Plain and simple, they Broke one of their principals to give in to nVidia's persistance. How hard is that to understand? They clearly stated that this is NOT something they would normally do. So they compromised their ethics in order to appease nvidia.
Stop making it out to be fanboy trash. They did not stick to their ethics. How hard is that to understand?
Stop the fannyism already, its stupid. :thumbsdown: