Should doctors refuse to teat PTs who do not follow instructions?

[glenn1]

The question I have is not about vaccines, but about the doctors behavior.

How would you react if your doctor told you to either stop drinking, or get out. Maybe to stop eating fatty foods or get out. If you were having sex outside a committed relationship, get out.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...tricians-want-you-to-vaccinate-your-kids.html



Lets say more doctors adopted this attitude.

If you are slightly overweight, get out.

If did anything that would have a negative effect on your health, get out.

Lets not turn this into a "but unvaccinated children pose a health risk to others." We all know that, there is no dispute there.

The parents made a life choice for their family, should the doctors have the right to refuse treatment due to life choices?

EDIT

Thread title changed to better reflect direction of thread.

Maybe they're not "refusing treatment based on life choices," they're refusing to take anti-vaccine nutjobs on as patients because they figure probably correctly that you'll be simillarly idiotic in other aspects of medical care and a general hassle to deal with personality-wise.

I'd support anyone who refuses vaccinations for their children being refused from all public accomodations and services as a health measure. Want to not have your kids take the polio vaccine, then stay the fuck away from shopping malls, swimming pools, and everywhere else the general public is and go back to your backwoods hillbilly compound to produce more inbreds.

 

[Texashiker]

they're refusing to take anti-vaccine nutjobs on as patients

According to you a persons mental health should define whether they get treatment?

Should someone who is bi-polar be refused treatment?

Should someone who is bi-polar and refuses to take their medicine be denied treatment?

 

[senseamp]

Maybe it's against their beliefs to treat people who don't take vaccine.

 

[BUnit1701]

Didn't we have a bunch of people here defending the Dr. who asked patients who voted for Obama to go elsewhere?


I think a Doc telling you to scram over who you voted for, what you drink, if you have anorexia, whatever, is entirely inappropriate and unprofessional. Fuck that.

A Doc telling those who endanger other patients with communicable diseases by refusing to get vaccines is simply doing his job in a way that saves everyone a lot of time and hassle. In the age of SARs, swineflu, or hell even just pertusis, I think it's sound thinking and medically justifiable. How much you weight, what you drink, if you vote for a particular party...NONE of those are contagious life threatening conditions. Seems like there is a pretty simple distinction here that applies to this story quite well.

Preventable diseases are the leading killer of humans, aren't they? Sounds like pediatricians are getting tired of watching kids die and/or making other kids die on account of some parents being idiots. Good for them.



Heh. Just got a call from the wife heading home from our little one's appointment for the 18month rounds of shots. How fitting. Little guy was a champ too, no screaming just a few grumbles and frowns!

Please explain how refusing to treat these families will reduce the communicable diseases you seem so concerned about?

 

[glenn1]

According to you a persons mental health should define whether they get treatment?

Should someone who is bi-polar be refused treatment?

Should someone who is bi-polar and refuses to take their medicine be denied treatment?

Yes. If you're a anti-vaccine person, a doctor should be allowed to refuse you as a patient and let you find yourself a likeminded physician to treat you. Hopefully we'll bring back the concept of leper colonies to house you all and keep your plagues contained.

 

[Texashiker]

Yes. If you're a anti-vaccine person, a doctor should be allowed to refuse you as a patient and let you find yourself a likeminded physician to treat you. Hopefully we'll bring back the concept of leper colonies to house you all and keep your plagues contained.

I did not ask you about vaccines.

Since you called "nutjobs" into play, I specifically asked you about people with mental conditions.

 

[senseamp]

I did not ask you about vaccines.

Since you called "nutjobs" into play, I specifically asked you about people with mental conditions.

What if the mental person is refusing to follow the course of treatment prescribed by the doctor, why should the doctor waste his time helping someone who doesn't want to help themselves?

 

[Fern]

Doctors who are private business persons should generally be able to accept/refuse patients as they see fit.

Fern

 

[Slew Foot]

What if the mental person is refusing to follow the course of treatment prescribed by the doctor, why should the doctor waste his time helping someone who doesn't want to help themselves?

Doctors who are private business persons should generally be able to accept/refuse patients as they see fit.

Fern

These, if youre not going to follow the doctors advice, the doctor should be able to kick you to the curb.

 

[PokerGuy]

Feel like answering why patient A (a drinker refusing to stop) can rightly get booted from health coverage - but, patient B (a person who refuses to be vaccinated) should not be refused medical treatment?

Health care coverage is not nearly the same thing as medical treatment.

I don't have a problem with a doctor deciding who they want to treat and who they don't, but I find it a terrible practice for a doctor to make a judgement about someone based on his opinion on the matter to the point where he refuses to treat patients. Sounds like a lousy doctor, but he should have the right to do so.

 

[Moonbeam]

Doctors should refuse to treat anybody who is sick. It is God's will that people are sick. It was all determined on the day of creation what our fate would be.

 

[glenn1]

I did not ask you about vaccines.

Since you called "nutjobs" into play, I specifically asked you about people with mental conditions.

The doctor should then refer them to authorities for commitment to asylum inpatient care if there is the slightest risk they may harm themselves or others. If not, IMHO the doctor could (and ethically should) refuse to further continue the doctor-patient relationship with anyone who refuses to follow a prescribed treatment regimen. That would apply regardless of the nature of the ailment or treatment regimen, including vaccination.

And to me, the Venn diagram of people who refuse vaccines (unless for legitimate cause like allergy to a vaccine component) and those with mental conditions is basically a single circle.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Doctors should refuse to treat anybody who is sick. It is God's will that people are sick. It was all determined on the day of creation what our fate would be.

I thought it was God's will and gift for a doctor with the talent to cure and heal people??

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's about accepting patients in a practice. This is a commitment and not to be entered into lightly and yes at some point physicians are completely responsible for discontinuing a relationship. This however is about not entering into one to begin with.

The pediatrician is ethically and morally correct in this case. What if yourself all you please, but in this case it's a proper response.

 

[nickbits]

A doctor's advice is just that--advice. I generally follow it but there are times I go my own way.

 

[kage69]

Please explain how refusing to treat these families will reduce the communicable diseases you seem so concerned about?

Let me guess. You don't have any children, do you? I'd like to see you maintain your flippant attitude after watching a 1 year old have a whooping cough fit, nearly passing out and vomiting at the same time. It's horrible. Pertussis is on the rise, from older kids and adults not getting the shot or a booster.

It's about harm reduction for the greatest number of people. This is why many, if not all at this point, daycare places and preschools will not accept children who haven't their vaccines. I hope you can appreciate the concept that fewer kids get sick if fewer sick kids are present to get them sick.

 

[BUnit1701]

Let me guess. You don't have any children, do you? I'd like to see you maintain your flippant attitude after watching a 1 year old have a whooping cough fit, nearly passing out and vomiting at the same time. It's horrible. Pertussis is on the rise, from older kids and adults not getting the shot or a booster.

It's about harm reduction for the greatest number of people. This is why many, if not all at this point, daycare places and preschools will not accept children who haven't their vaccines. I hope you can appreciate the concept that fewer kids get sick if fewer sick kids are present to get them sick.

That's all very touching, but I notice you avoided the question...

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Please explain how refusing to treat these families will reduce the communicable diseases you seem so concerned about?

It's already been answered in this thread repeatedly. Children can not get immunized the day they are born. A physician requiring immunization aged children to actually be immunized, they are mitigating the risk of exposure to their at risk patients.

 

[BUnit1701]

It's already been answered in this thread repeatedly. Children can not get immunized the day they are born. A physician requiring immunization aged children to actually be immunized, they are mitigating the risk of exposure to their at risk patients.

And by not treating them they are leaving an exposure vector open to the public. Doesn't sound very safe to me.

 

[glenn1]

And by not treating them they are leaving an exposure vector open to the public. Doesn't sound very safe to me.

If parents refused to vaccinate their kids and thus allowing their kids to catch an otherwise preventable disease, why would they agree to a physician giving them anti-biotics to treat? Many have the same preservatives, stabilizers, and suspension fluids that anti-vaccine people object to, so why even bother with the charade?

I agree with the doctor who wrote the article; if you don't vaccinate then stay the hell away from my office and other patients.

 

[Brainonska511]

And by not treating them they are leaving an exposure vector open to the public. Doesn't sound very safe to me.

It's right there in the article:

It’s not merely that I don’t want to have to worry that the two-week-old infant in my waiting room is getting exposed to a potentially-fatal case of pertussis if these parents bring their children in with a bad cough.

The unvaccinated are a threat to public health, but placing them in the same room (eg: a doctor's waiting room) as people that cannot yet be vaccinated is a worse.

 

[z1ggy]

The hell is a person who doesn't listen to a doctor doing at the doctor in the first place? I could see if you went to the doctor for a sore throat and he said don't come back unless you lose weight being one thing...But if your symptoms and problems are due to being fat and the doctor says to "go lose weight" then you probably should.

If you don't, then you're just ignorant and/or lazy.

 

[kage69]

So, no kids then? As expected.

And by not treating them they are leaving an exposure vector open to the public. Doesn't sound very safe to me.

Tell that to the parents. If the doctor involved was actually refusing requested vaccines to patients your position would make a lot more sense. Doctors would like nothing more than to inoculate kids and keep them from harm, but they can't overrule parents now can they?

Doctors have an obligation to do no harm to their patients. The public at large is not a patient. If established patients decide they want to pick and choose treatments against the advice of the doctor, well that's their right of course, but the doctor has the right (and responsibility IMO) to keep his non KoolAid drinking patients from suffering/dying due to the decisions of people who take issue with science and medicine.

Sadly, it's going to take a lot more sick people and things like http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...sles-epidemic-now-offering-free-vaccinations# to happen before this anti-vaccine stupidity ends.
Either the idiots will learn the hard way, or die out, but it saddens me greatly that some sweet little kids are going to pay a price for the paranoia and dogma of their parents.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I did not ask you about vaccines.

Since you called "nutjobs" into play, I specifically asked you about people with mental conditions.

I am not surprised you post about this subject. Have you been refused medical care for your obvious regional Texas based conservative brain defect? This is shown by your complete ignorance of THE Hippocratic OATH taken by the medical profession. To refuse care for any reason breaks so much of it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I thought it was God's will and gift for a doctor with the talent to cure and heal people??

Ah, but if it's God's will then why the doctor bill?