Should I be concerned about my friends who regularly use marijuana?

[Vegitto]

Well, I smoke a lot of weed. I live in the Netherlands, so essentially, it's all legal (possession is legal from age 16, buying is legal from age 18 and everyone above the age of 12 can legally grow up to five plants a year, providing they don't smell too much). I can tell you that MJ is probably a gateway drug, but you have to consider that people that move from weed to say, heroin, would have probably sought out something like heroin anyways. I can get my hands on practically anything, if I want 5 grams of coke, I can have it within the hour providing I have the money. Also, most mind-expanding drugs are not addictive, except ketamine, of course.

Also, the government tale of 'do it once and you're addicted for life' is just plain bullshit. I've done coke once (I didn't like it, it made me think thoughts that weren't mine, as in "I could kill everyone in this room without breaking a sweat and I could get away with it too", and I didn't like it, so that was the last time), and I can see why people like it. You feel mighty, on top of the world, living a life of luxury, but there's one problem: Problems aren't problems. Realize that, and you're in the clear. As soon as you smoke, snort, inject or consume to run from your problems, you're an addict.

Anyway, I would encourage anyone to try weed at least once or twice, and then see how you like it. I hate it when people judge every drug out there, without trying it or without even knowing what it does, let alone what it looks like. Those are the losers. Don't judge before you know what you're talking about. If you smoke some weed and don't like it, of course you can speak against it. If you smoke weed and like it, you can speak for it, but if you've never done it, you need to shut the fsck up. OP, smoke with them, even just once, and see how you like it. There's no chance you'll get addicted, and if you make sure you haven't got any obligations the day after, you'll be fine. Have a beer, have two, bring some cookies and smoke a doobie.

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Anubis

i know recreational drug users that are business execs, programmers, engineers, lawyers, physicists, a few that work on wall street.....

so yea people smoke and do just fine, in reality its no different then drinking other then the Govt made it illegal

The more I get older, the more I feel the same way... The governement has its biases so its really hard to separate the truth from fiction.

Remember the government also tried to ban Alcohol. The only reason that the ban didn't stick IMHO, was that alcohol was more addicting and people just couldn't stop drinking so that had to make it legal again. Marijuana.. its easier to quit... which is probably way its still illegal.

If i'm not mistaken, alcohol is one of the most addicting drugs out there...

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Well, I smoke a lot of weed. I live in the Netherlands, so essentially, it's all legal (possession is legal from age 16, buying is legal from age 18 and everyone above the age of 12 can legally grow up to five plants a year, providing they don't smell too much). I can tell you that MJ is probably a gateway drug, but you have to consider that people that move from weed to say, heroin, would have probably sought out something like heroin anyways. I can get my hands on practically anything, if I want 5 grams of coke, I can have it within the hour providing I have the money. Also, most mind-expanding drugs are not addictive, except ketamine, of course.

Also, the government tale of 'do it once and you're addicted for life' is just plain bullshit. I've done coke once (I didn't like it, it made me think thoughts that weren't mine, as in "I could kill everyone in this room without breaking a sweat and I could get away with it too", and I didn't like it, so that was the last time), and I can see why people like it. You feel mighty, on top of the world, living a life of luxury, but there's one problem: Problems aren't problems. Realize that, and you're in the clear. As soon as you smoke, snort, inject or consume to run from your problems, you're an addict.

Anyway, I would encourage anyone to try weed at least once or twice, and then see how you like it. I hate it when people judge every drug out there, without trying it or without even knowing what it does, let alone look like. Those are the losers. Don't judge before you know what you're talking about. If you smoke some weed and don't like it, of course you can speak against it. If you smoke weed and like it, you can speak for it, but if you've never done it, you need to shut the fsck up. OP, smoke with them, even just once, and see how you like it. There's no chance you'll get addicted, and if you make sure you haven't got any obligations the day after, you'll be fine. Have a beer, have two, bring some cookies and smoke a doobie.

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

I need to move

Ausm

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Google search for 'schizophrenia marijuana'.

IMHO, they have to sort it out them self just like alcohol addiction.

Pot and other drugs often do effect people with certian mental disorders and can influence the symtomps of the disorder - both in positive and negative ways.

Originally posted by: effowe
You are referring to .gov sites for your information on weed. That's quite the biased source if you're looking for the long term ramifications of using marijuana. Look into independent studies that aren't government funded, and you will get much more reliable information. I wouldn't worry about your friends as it has been shown in many studies that pot is less harmful than drinking and/or smoking cigarettes.

European studies are the least biased in my opinion.

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: archcommus
So I have a few friends that since college have begun using marijuana sort of frequently. Definitely not daily, but definitely every weekend, often in conjunction with drinking. Some of them have been doing this for two to three years and don't plan to stop any time soon. To me, they all seem fine, normal, and not addicted. I did some research and the harms seem to be almost non-existent. But then I read other sites that seem pretty legit, such as .gov sites, and they consistently talk about the memory, social, depression, cognitive, and other mental/health effects that they seem to say WILL ensure from using marijuana.

So what websites are lying here, and why are they? Do I have any need to be concerned for these friends or to try to influence them to stop in the slightest?

I used to work as an analyst at a forensic toxicology lab (i.e. an illicit drug testing lab) and currently work as a principal investigator/study director for a pharmaceutical contract research lab - so take all of that for what you will. Also to be upfront I do not have a MD or a PhD so take that into consideration as well.

From material I have read in the past there seems to be documented studies demonstrating that marijuana, chiefly THC but also the other chemicals found in marijuana (people do tend to think that the only thing they are 'smoking' from a joint is THC, which is like saying the only thing you inhale from a cigarette is nicotine), can indeed be a neurotoxin. I know there are some studies online over at PubMed - but that is a NIH site funded in part by the government so I am sure many people are going to readily dismiss that.

Now that being said of course everything depends on the dose, and I do not recall off the top of my head if there was some specific concentration over time that was found to affect memory, but I would imagine it would require more than the occasional joint here and there.

Also as a personal opinion there may not be much (or any) evidence to support a physical addiction (such as found with heroin) but to me there does seem to be a sort of emotional and/or psychological addiction. In other words people enjoy getting high, so they get high more often and so forth until it could potentially come to a point in affecting their life because they spend more time baked than they do sober.

Personally I think if your friends enjoy to smoke up on occasion during the weekend then that may be your choice (I think it's a dumb choice, though). However if they spend more and more time smoking up, again it may not be physically damaging them (at least not yet) but most definitely can't be a 'good' thing for them either.

Several studies have shown that extremel execissive use over decades may lead to minor short-term memory loss; by extreme use I mean at least an 1/8th ounce every week for several years.

If you want to learn more I highly recommend read MitchEarlywine's Understanding Marjiuana.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Well, I smoke a lot of weed. I live in the Netherlands, so essentially, it's all legal (possession is legal from age 16, buying is legal from age 18 and everyone above the age of 12 can legally grow up to five plants a year, providing they don't smell too much). I can tell you that MJ is probably a gateway drug, but you have to consider that people that move from weed to say, heroin, would have probably sought out something like heroin anyways. I can get my hands on practically anything, if I want 5 grams of coke, I can have it within the hour providing I have the money. Also, most mind-expanding drugs are not addictive, except ketamine, of course.

Also, the government tale of 'do it once and you're addicted for life' is just plain bullshit. I've done coke once (I didn't like it, it made me think thoughts that weren't mine, as in "I could kill everyone in this room without breaking a sweat and I could get away with it too", and I didn't like it, so that was the last time), and I can see why people like it. You feel mighty, on top of the world, living a life of luxury, but there's one problem: Problems aren't problems. Realize that, and you're in the clear. As soon as you smoke, snort, inject or consume to run from your problems, you're an addict.

Anyway, I would encourage anyone to try weed at least once or twice, and then see how you like it. I hate it when people judge every drug out there, without trying it or without even knowing what it does, let alone look like. Those are the losers. Don't judge before you know what you're talking about. If you smoke some weed and don't like it, of course you can speak against it. If you smoke weed and like it, you can speak for it, but if you've never done it, you need to shut the fsck up. OP, smoke with them, even just once, and see how you like it. There's no chance you'll get addicted, and if you make sure you haven't got any obligations the day after, you'll be fine. Have a beer, have two, bring some cookies and smoke a doobie.

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

I need to move

Ausm

Well, you're always welcome here.. Keep in mind that our weed is a LOT stronger, and also that I won't enable any addiction..

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Google search for 'schizophrenia marijuana'.

IMHO, they have to sort it out them self just like alcohol addiction.

Pot and other drugs often do effect people with certian mental disorders and can influence the symtomps of the disorder - both in positive and negative ways.

Indeed. I heard something that a cannabis-LSD-ketamine-Iboguane-combo was essentially a cure for heroin addiction and various (actually most) forms of autism.

EDIT: I think I'm one of the few people over here who actually want to discuss drug usage and openly admit that they smoke weed and have done other things, so if anyone has a question, ask me in this thread and I'll try my best to answer it as truthfully as possible.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: 40Hands

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: alien42
i have had plenty of friends who smoked pot every day for years (more like 5 years and up) and there is nothing wrong with them. they hold good jobs, live normal lives and are still more intelligent than your avg person.

I don't mean to be an a-hole, but what kind of jobs do they have? Salaried professional jobs (engineer, etc), or hourly positions? And does their intelligence extend beyond quoting liberal propaganda, legaleze about legalizing marijuana, and quoting Nietzsche Hunter Thompson, Kerouac, and Timothy Leary? In my experience, that sums up the pot smokers I know.

i know recreational drug users that are business execs, programmers, engineers, lawyers, physicists, a few that work on wall street.....

so yea people smoke and do just fine, in reality its no different then drinking other then the Govt made it illegal

The way I see it is, in reality it's an illegal drug that society associates (right or wrong) with losers. I think whether you smoke or not says alot about your character. But then, I'm very judgemental.

Who cares what society associates something with. Society as a whole is pretty stupid IMO.

What exactly does it say about your character? I don't think it has anything to do with your character. Don't play into stereotypes.

To me (and I won't apologize for my opinion), it just doesn't tell me that you have a very high moral character. More than likely (and I don't want to take the time to find out if you're the exception), it says that you don't have your life together. It says that your interests are in getting a manufactured high, which is usually exhibited in people of low-economic, low-education, or low-social status (which includes alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, or any other methods of acheiving a high). I'm sure it's possible for some to do drugs, or be an alcoholic, and maintain a "normal" life, but I'm speaking generally (you might call it stereotypes).

Like it or not, you will be judged by societal steroetypes your whole life. If I see a huge guy wearing a biker jacket, with a shaved head, tattoos, and a long goatee walking towards me on the sidewalk, I'm not going to look him in the eye, in fear of making him angry. Now, I know it's possible he's a sweet teddy bear, but most poeple who look like that are pretty mean and tough, so I have to assume he is too. If he is really nice, I would have to ask him why he wants to look mean, and have people judge him like that. Sure, his answer could be, "Because stereotypes suck, and I'm showing that you can look like this and be nice." But I think that is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The reality is, people are going to think of you differently. Now you're thinking, "Well, those are the a-holes I don't want to associate with anyway!" And that's probably the case, which is why most biker guys hang out with other biker guys, and why pot smokers hang out with other pot smokers. You want to justify your actions, and associate with those who accept you, despite your actions. Some day you'll want a job, or will meet your girlfriends parents, or will need something from an average member of the evil insitution you call "society", and you'll regret whatever it is you did to rebel against society. My finacee's brother is covered in tattoos. He said, "I don't give a fvck what people think about me." Until he needed a job. Now he's got a baby on the way, and makes $10/hr, because no one will hire him. Real smart. If society is so stupid, why not tell everyone you meet that you smoke pot? Because you don't want them to think less of you.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I just started typing without thought. Sorry.

Hey dude, good luck living your life trying to please others. I don't think you are as much a judgemental prick as you are a total conformist. Hey I know what it's like, I tried your way and it totally sucked, but then that's me and I couldn't continue to live that way. You are probably happy with the way you are and thats cool, to each their own but you lecturing others how they should live smacks of you trying to justify your own lifestyle.

BTW I don't smoke dope or take any other illegal drugs mainly because I prefer to go through life with a clear head which is needed to deal with people like you.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Google search for 'schizophrenia marijuana'.

IMHO, they have to sort it out them self just like alcohol addiction.

Pot and other drugs often do effect people with certian mental disorders and can influence the symtomps of the disorder - both in positive and negative ways.

Indeed. I heard something that a cannabis-LSD-ketamine-Iboguane-combo was essentially a cure for heroin addiction and various (actually most) forms of autism.

EDIT: I think I'm one of the few people over here who actually want to discuss drug usage and openly admit that they smoke weed and have done other things, so if anyone has a question, ask me in this thread and I'll try my best to answer it as truthfully as possible.

While I will say up front that I'm not positive, I do work with quite a few people who are involved in autism research, and I've yet to hear of any such combination "curing" autism.

 

[senseamp]

Only if they don't pass the joint to you

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

To me (and I won't apologize for my opinion), it just doesn't tell me that you have a very high moral character. More than likely (and I don't want to take the time to find out if you're the exception), it says that you don't have your life together. It says that your interests are in getting a manufactured high, which is usually exhibited in people of low-economic, low-education, or low-social status (which includes alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, or any other methods of acheiving a high). I'm sure it's possible for some to do drugs, or be an alcoholic, and maintain a "normal" life, but I'm speaking generally (you might call it stereotypes).

Like it or not, you will be judged by societal steroetypes your whole life. If I see a huge guy wearing a biker jacket, with a shaved head, tattoos, and a long goatee walking towards me on the sidewalk, I'm not going to look him in the eye, in fear of making him angry. Now, I know it's possible he's a sweet teddy bear, but most poeple who look like that are pretty mean and tough, so I have to assume he is too. If he is really nice, I would have to ask him why he wants to look mean, and have people judge him like that. Sure, his answer could be, "Because stereotypes suck, and I'm showing that you can look like this and be nice." But I think that is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The reality is, people are going to think of you differently. Now you're thinking, "Well, those are the a-holes I don't want to associate with anyway!" And that's probably the case, which is why most biker guys hang out with other biker guys, and why pot smokers hang out with other pot smokers. You want to justify your actions, and associate with those who accept you, despite your actions. Some day you'll want a job, or will meet your girlfriends parents, or will need something from an average member of the evil insitution you call "society", and you'll regret whatever it is you did to rebel against society. My finacee's brother is covered in tattoos. He said, "I don't give a fvck what people think about me." Until he needed a job. Now he's got a baby on the way, and makes $10/hr, because no one will hire him. Real smart. If society is so stupid, why not tell everyone you meet that you smoke pot? Because you don't want them to think less of you.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I just started typing without thought. Sorry.

Since when has law been equivalent to morals?

Also, I realize that the "artsies" have a pretty bad rap for drugs and it's par for the course in most eyes (and that a lot of people are anti-arts, anti-culture so it just supports their drug rhetoric), but what about these guys:

Paul Erdos
One of the leading mathematicians of the 20th century. Habitual user of amphetamines who attributed the success of much of his mathematical work to them. When he wasn't using amphetamines his work suffered greatly. This guy was incredibly important to the development of math.

Dr. Kary Mullis
Nobel laureate (Chemistry). Attributes some of his most significant work (Polymerase Chain Reaction) to his LSD usage.

Sigmund Freud
You likely know who he is. He did a helluva lot of cocaine.

I'm not suggesting that you do drugs. But to buy into the tripe that drugs are the devil is sheer stupidity. These people were using much more "hardcore" (if you want to label it that) drugs than marijuana.

There are plenty of other recreational drug users who made a difference in the world (more than most DARE proponents ever will) that I can't even begin to list--these were just some of the more daily users/abusers of drugs.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Google search for 'schizophrenia marijuana'.

IMHO, they have to sort it out them self just like alcohol addiction.

Pot and other drugs often do effect people with certian mental disorders and can influence the symtomps of the disorder - both in positive and negative ways.

Indeed. I heard something that a cannabis-LSD-ketamine-Iboguane-combo was essentially a cure for heroin addiction and various (actually most) forms of autism.

EDIT: I think I'm one of the few people over here who actually want to discuss drug usage and openly admit that they smoke weed and have done other things, so if anyone has a question, ask me in this thread and I'll try my best to answer it as truthfully as possible.

While I will say up front that I'm not positive, I do work with quite a few people who are involved in autism research, and I've yet to hear of any such combination "curing" autism.

Well, I know someone who's little brother was 'cured' in such an experimental treatment. He went from wobbling, not making eyecontact, yelling, not being able to talk to highly traumatized teenager. Essentially, it's a wake-up call. They 'wake up' whilst heavily tripping, in other words, while tripping, they realize that they've been 'crazy' their whole life, and that they're now tripping. He's been 'cured' for a little over 5 months now, but he's doing alright. He needs counseling for the trauma, but if you didn't know he used to be autistic, you'd just think he was traumatized as a kid. He's a weird kid, but he can communicate, talk, walk, learn. In less than a year, he'll be able to go to school. Like Dr. House said:"He won't be a rocket scientist, but he can flip burgers and button his own shirts."

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Flyback

Originally posted by: Rob9874

To me (and I won't apologize for my opinion), it just doesn't tell me that you have a very high moral character. More than likely (and I don't want to take the time to find out if you're the exception), it says that you don't have your life together. It says that your interests are in getting a manufactured high, which is usually exhibited in people of low-economic, low-education, or low-social status (which includes alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, or any other methods of acheiving a high). I'm sure it's possible for some to do drugs, or be an alcoholic, and maintain a "normal" life, but I'm speaking generally (you might call it stereotypes).

Like it or not, you will be judged by societal steroetypes your whole life. If I see a huge guy wearing a biker jacket, with a shaved head, tattoos, and a long goatee walking towards me on the sidewalk, I'm not going to look him in the eye, in fear of making him angry. Now, I know it's possible he's a sweet teddy bear, but most poeple who look like that are pretty mean and tough, so I have to assume he is too. If he is really nice, I would have to ask him why he wants to look mean, and have people judge him like that. Sure, his answer could be, "Because stereotypes suck, and I'm showing that you can look like this and be nice." But I think that is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The reality is, people are going to think of you differently. Now you're thinking, "Well, those are the a-holes I don't want to associate with anyway!" And that's probably the case, which is why most biker guys hang out with other biker guys, and why pot smokers hang out with other pot smokers. You want to justify your actions, and associate with those who accept you, despite your actions. Some day you'll want a job, or will meet your girlfriends parents, or will need something from an average member of the evil insitution you call "society", and you'll regret whatever it is you did to rebel against society. My finacee's brother is covered in tattoos. He said, "I don't give a fvck what people think about me." Until he needed a job. Now he's got a baby on the way, and makes $10/hr, because no one will hire him. Real smart. If society is so stupid, why not tell everyone you meet that you smoke pot? Because you don't want them to think less of you.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I just started typing without thought. Sorry.

Since when has law been equivalent to morals?

Also, I realize that the "artsies" have a pretty bad rap for drugs and it's par for the course in most eyes (and that a lot of people are anti-arts, anti-culture so it just supports their drug rhetoric), but what about these guys:

Paul Erdos
One of the leading mathematicians of the 20th century. Habitual user of amphetamines who attributed the success of much of his mathematical work to them. When he wasn't using amphetamines his work suffered greatly. This guy was incredibly important to the development of math.

Dr. Kary Mullis
Nobel laureate (Chemistry). Attributes some of his most significant work (Polymerase Chain Reaction) to his LSD usage.

Sigmund Freud
You likely know who he is. He did a helluva lot of cocaine.

I'm not suggesting that you do drugs. But to buy into the tripe that drugs are the devil is sheer stupidity. These people were using much more "hardcore" (if you want to label it that) drugs than marijuana.

There are plenty of other recreational drug users who made a difference in the world (more than most DARE proponents ever will) that I can't even begin to list--these were just some of the more daily users/abusers of drugs.

id like to add that nearly all great musicians ther we know and love were on 1 if not many drugs, from weed to Heroin

id like to add that nearly all great musicians that we know and love were on 1 if not many drugs, from weed to Heroin

as well as most great artists

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: clamum

Originally posted by: archcommus
Do I have any need to be concerned for these friends or to try to influence them to stop in the slightest?

Heck no. I could see if they were hooked on crack and stealing sh!t for drug money, but for pot? Naw.

are you really that sure it doesnt happen? just because it seems silly to you doesnt mean some people with very addictive personalities arent going to go roba store to get a quarter oz.

i was raised by a hippie mom and a biker dad. he still smokes about everyday, and never really smoked cigarettes. he has these weird bouts of almost asthma attacks for the past 4 years or so, doc told him he needs to quit smoking or he will die from it. i have friends from high school that smoked daily, and while it wasnt changing them much physically, once they werent forced to go to school they decided it was way more fun to sit and stare at a tv smoking pot than it was to go outside, work or anything. only time most of those potheads would get off the couch was to go score or to go somewhere odd and smoke... like the lake or the river bottom. id say that it definitely has social issues that need to be considered, as well as the fact that they will lose everything (including freedom) if they are caught with even a dimebag in most states. my cousin just got out of fed prison after 2.8 yrs for a pot charge. go if you hang with them while they are toking, you stand a chance at the same fates as them legally.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey dude, good luck living your life trying to please others. I don't think you are as much a judgemental prick as you are a total conformist. Hey I know what it's like, I tried your way and it totally sucked, but then that's me and I couldn't continue to live that way. You are probably happy with the way you are and thats cool, to each their own but you lecturing others how they should live smacks of you trying to justify your own lifestyle.

BTW I don't smoke dope or take any other illegal drugs mainly because I prefer to go through life with a clear head which is needed to deal with people like you.

Hey, I didn't attack you. Why the "...to deal with people like you" comment? I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I was asked why I felt that way, and I explained my position.

Whereas I'm not a conformist, I'm also not a non-conformist. I think they're just as bad. People who do things to spite society. It's still basing your actions on societal norms, but just doing the opposite. And it's usually just conforming to a different group. I know groups of people who think differently of you if you don't smoke or have tattoos, so I have to wonder how many people take up smoking or get tattoos as a way to conform to that group of people.

I think each person has to decide when to conform, and when not to. The ultimate non-conformist is the bum on the street corner asking me for some change. He listened to no one, didn't dress a certain way, followed none of society's rules. Good for him! He can honestly say he didn't sell himself out for anyone. Yes, I decide to look like a professional engineer, because I take pride in my career. Yes, I've decided not to smoke pot, because I myself look down on pot smokers, and don't want to be associated with that crowd. If that makes me a prick or a conformist, oh well. But know that it's my decision, and I'm not just some blind sheep like most conformists.

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: clamum

Originally posted by: archcommus
Do I have any need to be concerned for these friends or to try to influence them to stop in the slightest?

Heck no. I could see if they were hooked on crack and stealing sh!t for drug money, but for pot? Naw.

are you really that sure it doesnt happen? just because it seems silly to you doesnt mean some people with very addictive personalities arent going to go roba store to get a quarter oz.

i was raised by a hippie mom and a biker dad. he still smokes about everyday, and never really smoked cigarettes. he has these weird bouts of almost asthma attacks for the past 4 years or so, doc told him he needs to quit smoking or he will die from it. i have friends from high school that smoked daily, and while it wasnt changing them much physically, once they werent forced to go to school they decided it was way more fun to sit and stare at a tv smoking pot than it was to go outside, work or anything. only time most of those potheads would get off the couch was to go score or to go somewhere odd and smoke... like the lake or the river bottom. id say that it definitely has social issues that need to be considered, as well as the fact that they will lose everything (including freedom) if they are caught with even a dimebag in most states. my cousin just got out of fed prison after 2.8 yrs for a pot charge. go if you hang with them while they are toking, you stand a chance at the same fates as them legally.

If they were stealing and sh!t for pot money, then yeah, same thing as for crack then. If they aren't, I wouldn't care, it's their life. I don't like people interfering with mine so I suppose that's why I tend to leave people alone in such matters.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey dude, good luck living your life trying to please others. I don't think you are as much a judgemental prick as you are a total conformist. Hey I know what it's like, I tried your way and it totally sucked, but then that's me and I couldn't continue to live that way. You are probably happy with the way you are and thats cool, to each their own but you lecturing others how they should live smacks of you trying to justify your own lifestyle.

BTW I don't smoke dope or take any other illegal drugs mainly because I prefer to go through life with a clear head which is needed to deal with people like you.

Hey, I didn't attack you. Why the "...to deal with people like you" comment? I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I was asked why I felt that way, and I explained my position. I'm hardly a conformist, and I don't think you can assess the type of person that I am based on my opinions on marijuana use and outward appearance.

Whereas I'm not a conformist, I'm also not a non-conformist. I think they're just as bad. People who do things to spite society. It's still basing your actions on societal norms, but just doing the opposite. And it's usually just conforming to a different group. I know groups of people who think differently of you if you don't smoke or have tattoos, so I have to wonder how many people take up smoking or get tattoos as a way to conform to that group of people.

I think each person has to decide when to conform, and when not to. The ultimate non-conformist is the bum on the street corner asking me for some change. He listened to no one, didn't dress a certain way, followed none of society's rules. Good for him! He can honestly say he didn't sell himself out for anyone. Yes, I decide to look like a professional engineer, because I take pride in my career. Yes, I've decided not to smoke pot, because I myself look down on pot smokers, and don't want to be associated with that crowd. If that makes me a prick or a conformist, oh well. But know that it's my decision, and I'm not just some blind sheep like most conformists.

Oh then you're just a judgemental prick, sorry my bad. Now I can relate to that

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: Anubis

id like to add that nearly all great musicians ther we know and love were on 1 if not many drugs, from weed to Heroin

id like to add that nearly all great musicians that we know and love were on 1 if not many drugs, from weed to Heroin

as well as most great artists

I completely agree, but purposely left them out because a lot of the people on these forums are sadly anti-arts (arts and cultured things are labeled as "liberal" and useless :laugh: ).

I chose to select people that have made a difference in everyones life (at least one of them has).

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Whisper
As far as I know and have read, there are very few--if any at all--negative consequences to "recreational" marijuana use. The only long-term side-effects I've read about pertain to memory and executive functioning disturbances, and those results a) are inconsistent, at best, across studies, and b) generally follow years of heavy (multiple times per day) use.

I myself have never smoked it, but some of the most intelligent and high-functioning individuals I know do.

i keep seeing people post things like this. do you think they would be the same intelligence, higher or lower if they quit smoking? i think that motivated, intelligent and stable people will be stable anyway, even if they toke up after work every night. dumber people would toke up before work, during work or just skip work (or work at craptastic jobs) in order to smoke more. smart pot smokers may seem smarter because they realize when not to smoke. my dad is a lifer, he ran a company that set up pretty much all the concerts here in the phoenix metro area for about 30 years. 97% of the crew were druggies and potheads (not me, i didnt want to deal with work if i was smoking) along with him. the company was very successful, but that really isnt a tout for smoking pot, its a tout for my dads business sense along with his ability to motivate 300 guys to set up and tear down a stage in a day.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

*snip*

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

Ok. The last thing you are going to be seeing on LSD is the "real world". The only thing you are going to see is what's in your own head. You might experience some moments where you feel like you are in a dream, ie. hallucinating, but as far as "the man" showing you what he wants you to see... uh, that's all in your head. If you think it is some profound religious experience, you're wrong.

Secondly, about the shrooms... you're telling someone to eat ~20 grams for their first time, or about 5 if they are dried. Dude, back in the day when I used to put all that ****** into my body, the most shrooms I ever did at once was 2.5 grams and I was convinced that aliens were in the city watching our every move and my buddy's face started melting into the wall. Why someone would want to get any more wasted than that is beyond me! I would tell a beginner to have a gram, tops... and if they weren't in a comfortable, locked down environment with close friends that they could trust, I wouldn't recommend trying shrooms or LSD at all.

That "real world" nonsense is funky, dude. There's nothing real about getting wasted. The whole idea is disconnecting yourself from reality, not trying to get a better grasp of it.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Vegitto
Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

sooo... you have to take an unnatural mind altering substance to see the real world? thats fairly ironic isnt it?

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Whisper
As far as I know and have read, there are very few--if any at all--negative consequences to "recreational" marijuana use. The only long-term side-effects I've read about pertain to memory and executive functioning disturbances, and those results a) are inconsistent, at best, across studies, and b) generally follow years of heavy (multiple times per day) use.

I myself have never smoked it, but some of the most intelligent and high-functioning individuals I know do.

i keep seeing people post things like this. do you think they would be the same intelligence, higher or lower if they quit smoking? i think that motivated, intelligent and stable people will be stable anyway, even if they toke up after work every night. dumber people would toke up before work, during work or just skip work (or work at craptastic jobs) in order to smoke more. smart pot smokers may seem smarter because they realize when not to smoke. my dad is a lifer, he ran a company that set up pretty much all the concerts here in the phoenix metro area for about 30 years. 97% of the crew were druggies and potheads (not me, i didnt want to deal with work if i was smoking) along with him. the company was very successful, but that really isnt a tout for smoking pot, its a tout for my dads business sense along with his ability to motivate 300 guys to set up and tear down a stage in a day.

I personally don't think that marijuana itself is going to affect your intelligence one way or another. As you've mentioned, the key isn't whether or not marijuana (or any other substance, many of which would, in fact, lead to long-term disturbances in cognitive functioning) is used , but instead how it's used.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Whisper
As far as I know and have read, there are very few--if any at all--negative consequences to "recreational" marijuana use. The only long-term side-effects I've read about pertain to memory and executive functioning disturbances, and those results a) are inconsistent, at best, across studies, and b) generally follow years of heavy (multiple times per day) use.

I myself have never smoked it, but some of the most intelligent and high-functioning individuals I know do.

i keep seeing people post things like this. do you think they would be the same intelligence, higher or lower if they quit smoking? i think that motivated, intelligent and stable people will be stable anyway, even if they toke up after work every night. dumber people would toke up before work, during work or just skip work (or work at craptastic jobs) in order to smoke more. smart pot smokers may seem smarter because they realize when not to smoke. my dad is a lifer, he ran a company that set up pretty much all the concerts here in the phoenix metro area for about 30 years. 97% of the crew were druggies and potheads (not me, i didnt want to deal with work if i was smoking) along with him. the company was very successful, but that really isnt a tout for smoking pot, its a tout for my dads business sense along with his ability to motivate 300 guys to set up and tear down a stage in a day.

There are responsible and irresponsible pot smokers, just as there are responsible and irresponsible drinkers. Think about it, there is absolutely no difference in the two except for one being legal and the other not. I bet the cops are called alot less to the houses of pot heads though.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Whisper
As far as I know and have read, there are very few--if any at all--negative consequences to "recreational" marijuana use. The only long-term side-effects I've read about pertain to memory and executive functioning disturbances, and those results a) are inconsistent, at best, across studies, and b) generally follow years of heavy (multiple times per day) use.

I myself have never smoked it, but some of the most intelligent and high-functioning individuals I know do.

i keep seeing people post things like this. do you think they would be the same intelligence, higher or lower if they quit smoking? i think that motivated, intelligent and stable people will be stable anyway, even if they toke up after work every night. dumber people would toke up before work, during work or just skip work (or work at craptastic jobs) in order to smoke more. smart pot smokers may seem smarter because they realize when not to smoke. my dad is a lifer, he ran a company that set up pretty much all the concerts here in the phoenix metro area for about 30 years. 97% of the crew were druggies and potheads (not me, i didnt want to deal with work if i was smoking) along with him. the company was very successful, but that really isnt a tout for smoking pot, its a tout for my dads business sense along with his ability to motivate 300 guys to set up and tear down a stage in a day.

I personally don't think that marijuana itself is going to affect your intelligence one way or another. As you've mentioned, the key isn't whether or not marijuana (or any other substance, many of which would, in fact, lead to long-term disturbances in cognitive functioning) is used , but instead how it's used.

it does affect a lot of peoples intelligence, just not directly. most people get lazy when they smoke, and that laziness lacks motivation. if you start smoking at a time in your life where you are still forming your own motivation/ procrastination skillz, you will not be as prepared for life as someone that stays on task and learns their ******. i have some friends from HS (like i keep mentioning) that were pretty smart, but after sitting around for 4 years in high school smoking instead of studying cant get a job better than fry cook or working at a car wash because they just didnt apply themselves and get the general knowledge needed to get them into higher education or a job that would pay them well. i have a lot of cons for pot, but most are social/ mental over physical. except for the whole doctor telling my dad he will die if he doesnt stop smoking it. im sure thats just him tho, it cant apply to any other people that smoked for 37 years.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Vegitto

*snip*

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

Ok. The last thing you are going to be seeing on LSD is the "real world". The only thing you are going to see is what's in your own head. You might experience some moments where you feel like you are in a dream, ie. hallucinating, but as far as "the man" showing you what he wants you to see... uh, that's all in your head. If you think it is some profound religious experience, you're wrong.

Secondly, about the shrooms... you're telling someone to eat ~20 grams for their first time, or about 5 if they are dried. Dude, back in the day when I used to put all that ****** into my body, the most shrooms I ever did at once was 2.5 grams and I was convinced that aliens were in the city watching our every move and my buddy's face started melting into the wall. Why someone would want to get any more wasted than that is beyond me! I would tell a beginner to have a gram, tops... and if they weren't in a comfortable, locked down environment with close friends that they could trust, I wouldn't recommend trying shrooms or LSD at all.

That "real world" nonsense is funky, dude. There's nothing real about getting wasted. The whole idea is disconnecting yourself from reality, not trying to get a better grasp of it.

Well, what kind of shrooms did you take? There's a lot of different kinds, and the kind I was talking about is the only legal kind over here, you have to eat a lot.

SO PAY ATTENTION POTENTIAL SHROOMIE, THE SHROOMS IN AMERICA ARE A LOT STRONGER (APPARENTLY) THAN THE ONES I'M USED TO. ASK MELTDOWN75 FOR ADVICE.

And I agree it's not really the 'real world', but I can't really explain what I mean. It's more like 'there's more to this world than you can see with the bare eye'. Sometimes you need a telescope, microscope or just someone who's more knowledgeable than you are, and sometimes you have to use something else. Also, if it's not real, how come EVERY person I know that has done LSD, has seen faces and eyes everywhere at one point? It's in practically every trip report (check erowid.org), so there must be something that connects us all.

One small thing: I'm not disconnected from reality when I'm high, stoned or shroomed up, are you? You're just perceiving reality in a different way. How do YOU know that everyone around you sees everything the same way you do? Maybe we all see something else, but just call it the same. It's not WHAT you see, it's what you see IN IT. In other words, reality is not absolute, it depends on who's watching.

EDIT: About the motivation part, this also highly depends on the person. I know that I will probably smoke weed for the rest of my life, but I also know that if I keep living in this neighborhood and DON'T study like everyone else that lives here, I won't amount to anything. Hence me only smoking up when there's nothing important happening the next few days. For example, I've got the weekend off, and monday, too. I smoked up yesterday at a party (I had today off, too), and I'll probably to it today and tomorrow, too. But I KNOW that that'll be the last time until at least next friday. It's like the beer commercials say..

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Vegitto

*snip*

Heh, I've done weed, shrooms and coke, but in a little while I want to try some salvia, and after that (first I'll see how I like the salvia) I want to try LSD. It's personal, but I'm actually kinda interested in what the world REALLY looks like. In other words, I want to see beyond what 'the man' (heh) wants me to see. If you really want to 'live' and experience the world, OP, I suggest you try some mushrooms first. Try to get your hands om some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. For a first timer, eat ~20 grams fresh, or 1/4 of that if they're dried. It tastes like ******, but I recommend washing it away with some orange juice (this kickstarts the trip, you'll be on your way in under 10 minutes). Find a nice chair outside, in the sun and watch the REAL WORLD unfold.

Peace out.

Ok. The last thing you are going to be seeing on LSD is the "real world". The only thing you are going to see is what's in your own head. You might experience some moments where you feel like you are in a dream, ie. hallucinating, but as far as "the man" showing you what he wants you to see... uh, that's all in your head. If you think it is some profound religious experience, you're wrong.

Secondly, about the shrooms... you're telling someone to eat ~20 grams for their first time, or about 5 if they are dried. Dude, back in the day when I used to put all that ****** into my body, the most shrooms I ever did at once was 2.5 grams and I was convinced that aliens were in the city watching our every move and my buddy's face started melting into the wall. Why someone would want to get any more wasted than that is beyond me! I would tell a beginner to have a gram, tops... and if they weren't in a comfortable, locked down environment with close friends that they could trust, I wouldn't recommend trying shrooms or LSD at all.

That "real world" nonsense is funky, dude. There's nothing real about getting wasted. The whole idea is disconnecting yourself from reality, not trying to get a better grasp of it.

Well, what kind of shrooms did you take? There's a lot of different kinds, and the kind I was talking about is the only legal kind over here, you have to eat a lot.

SO PAY ATTENTION POTENTIAL SHROOMIE, THE SHROOMS IN AMERICA ARE A LOT STRONGER (APPARENTLY) THAN THE ONES I'M USED TO. ASK MELTDOWN75 FOR ADVICE.

And I agree it's not really the 'real world', but I can't really explain what I mean. It's more like 'there's more to this world than you can see with the bare eye'. Sometimes you need a telescope, microscope or just someone who's more knowledgeable than you are, and sometimes you have to use something else. Also, if it's not real, how come EVERY person I know that has done LSD, has seen faces and eyes everywhere at one point? It's in practically every trip report (check erowid.org), so there must be something that connects us all.

One small thing: I'm not disconnected from reality when I'm high, stoned or shroomed up, are you? You're just perceiving reality in a different way. How do YOU know that everyone around you sees everything the same way you do? Maybe we all see something else, but just call it the same. It's not WHAT you see, it's what you see IN IT. In other words, reality is not absolute, it depends on who's watching.

EDIT: About the motivation part, this also highly depends on the person. I know that I will probably smoke weed for the rest of my life, but I also know that if I keep living in this neighborhood and DON'T study like everyone else that lives here, I won't amount to anything. Hence me only smoking up when there's nothing important happening the next few days. For example, I've got the weekend off, and monday, too. I smoked up yesterday at a party (I had today off, too), and I'll probably to it today and tomorrow, too. But I KNOW that that'll be the last time until at least next friday. It's like the beer commercials say..

suggestive reasoning. if you tell someone something is there, it will be. we had a wizards post in my neighborhood that all the fryers would go visit and talk to when tripping. they all claimed to have seen the face and talk to it. for one, the face was carved into wood. you could see it while sober. i tried acid many times, never understood why people liked it. i never heard voices, saw trippy things or anything like that. not crappy acid either, same batch my friends were trippin on. i finally gave up on it, as the only thing i ever got out of it was a heightened sense of awareness. found out later that i had spent a night in detox at age 3 when i got dosed with a piece of LSD laced halloween candy. we arent all connected through some drug eye, its all in your mind.