Should I buy an M4?

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Feb 10, 2000
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Car as a souvenir ehh?

You fit the BMW owner's stereotype PERFECTLY.

You really are one of the most joyless, shit-stirring trolls I have ever encountered in more than 20 years on the Internet. All you seem to do, regardless of topic, is talk trash. God help the people who have to live and work with you . . .
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
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You really are one of the most joyless, shit-stirring trolls I have ever encountered in more than 20 years on the Internet. All you seem to do, regardless of topic, is talk trash. God help the people who have to live and work with you . . .

I'm not here to make you happy or bring you joy......or put on an act of some kind. How selfish and arrogant of you "bring me joy".....you do that yourself.

I will give it to you like it is. And yes, most people don't like to deal with reality so your reaction doesn't really surprise me.

ANd I can't really say your reply is exactly joyful either.

 
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Spicedaddy

Platinum Member
Apr 18, 2002
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Not a fan of leasing either, but some guys swear by it. So I dunno. I just don't want to be trapped in a car for two or three years.

Just trade it in after 4yrs/50k miles and you don't have to worry about it.

Don't want to be trapped in a car for 2-3 years, but trade it in after 4?? Makes no sense...

The only downside to leasing is the mileage limit. If you know you're going to want a new car every 3 years, why risk the depreciation in case of an accident? You also get to invest your money and make 10%/year instead of tying it up in a depreciating asset.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
I'm not here to make you happy or bring you joy......or put on an act of some kind. How selfish and arrogant of you "bring me joy".....you do that yourself.

I will give it to you like it is. And yes, most people don't like to deal with reality so your reaction doesn't really surprise me.

ANd I can't really say your reply is exactly joyful either.


Your first paragraph is completely incoherent - I don't think you understood my post at all, and I certainly don't understand what you're saying.

I understand you prefer to drive older Japanese cars rather than more recent German cars. That is your preference and I have no problem with it (in fact, one of my favorite cars was a 1984 Accord that had 206,000 miles when I got rid of it). What I have a problem with is your need to insert yourself into thread after thread to piss all over people who prefer to drive, say, a new M4 rather than a 15-year-old Mazda. It's mean-spirited, insulting and pointless.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
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Your first paragraph is completely incoherent - I don't think you understood my post at all, and I certainly don't understand what you're saying.

I understand you prefer to drive older Japanese cars rather than more recent German cars. That is your preference and I have no problem with it (in fact, one of my favorite cars was a 1984 Accord that had 206,000 miles when I got rid of it). What I have a problem with is your need to insert yourself into thread after thread to piss all over people who prefer to drive, say, a new M4 rather than a 15-year-old Mazda. It's mean-spirited, insulting and pointless.

if you don't like me or my post, you have freedom to ignore it.

better yet, feel free to add me to ignore list.

What I drive and my preference has NOTHING to do with what other people want.

I'm simply trying to prevent OP from purchasing a car that is poorly made/engineered and prevent future financial crisis.

I will continue to recommend ONLY owning German cars for the length of the warranty and never outside of it.....because doing so is risky and costly.

I know, it hurts at first, but down the line.....you might reconsider my recommendations.
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
if you don't like me or my post, you have freedom to ignore it.

better yet, feel free to add me to ignore list.

What I drive and my preference has NOTHING to do with what other people want.

I'm simply trying to prevent OP from purchasing a car that is poorly made/engineered and prevent future financial crisis.

I will continue to recommend ONLY owning German cars for the length of the warranty and never outside of it.....because doing so is risky and costly.

I know, it hurts at first, but down the line.....you might reconsider my recommendations.

Considering you haven't the first clue to what you're talking about, not likely anyone will care what you're recommending.
 

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
52
91
if you don't like me or my post, you have freedom to ignore it.

better yet, feel free to add me to ignore list.

What I drive and my preference has NOTHING to do with what other people want.

I'm simply trying to prevent OP from purchasing a car that is poorly made/engineered and prevent future financial crisis.

I will continue to recommend ONLY owning German cars for the length of the warranty and never outside of it.....because doing so is risky and costly.

I know, it hurts at first, but down the line.....you might reconsider my recommendations.

Have you ever owned one?
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
har har har. we're getting married and want a souvenir from our honeymoon. and we liked BMW's entry level cars more than the other German manufacturers.

What an epic trip. Way better souvenir than a cookoo clock or a stein. Congrats. Pics. Post em here.
 

sgrinavi

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2007
4,537
0
76
Don't want to be trapped in a car for 2-3 years, but trade it in after 4?? Makes no sense...

....

Two separate thoughts - that's why they were in two separate paragraphs.

1. I don't like leasing because.... (my reason for not wanting to lease a car)
2. The person I was responding to was concerned about the maintenance costs which will be alleviated if he trades it before the end of the free maintenance / full warranty period expires

See how that works?

Edit


...The only downside to leasing is the mileage limit. If you know you're going to want a new car every 3 years, why risk the depreciation in case of an accident? You also get to invest your money and make 10%/year instead of tying it up in a depreciating asset.

I want a new/different car every 6-18 months which is the primary reason I don't like leasing.

Isn't a leasing a depreciating asset the same as making depreciation payments for someone else?
 
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SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
if you don't like me or my post, you have freedom to ignore it.

better yet, feel free to add me to ignore list.

What I drive and my preference has NOTHING to do with what other people want.

I'm simply trying to prevent OP from purchasing a car that is poorly made/engineered and prevent future financial crisis.

I will continue to recommend ONLY owning German cars for the length of the warranty and never outside of it.....because doing so is risky and costly.

I know, it hurts at first, but down the line.....you might reconsider my recommendations.
The problem is, we can't all ignore you, someone has got to keep an eye on the village idiot. When the village idiot makes his presence known, someone has to be there to make sure that everyone else know you're in fact a village idiot so other impressionable people don't take what you say as gospel.

Keep on being yourself though, the mild annoyance is a good trade off for the comedy.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
The problem is, we can't all ignore you, someone has got to keep an eye on the village idiot. When the village idiot makes his presence known, someone has to be there to make sure that everyone else know you're in fact a village idiot so other impressionable people don't take what you say as gospel.

Keep on being yourself though, the mild annoyance is a good trade off for the comedy.

I never expect people to be happy about things that they might not want to hear.....or reality.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
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Except when, you know, you're wrong.

I'm not here to be right or wrong.

That's all of your jobs (it seems).

:biggrin:

I simply tell you what I know/experienced and am trying to help you and your wallet.

And of course I'm wrong to some extent. I'm SURE there are reliable german cars out there.

I'm just saying I wouldn't take my chances.....
 

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
52
91
I'm not here to be right or wrong.

That's all of your jobs (it seems).

:biggrin:

I simply tell you what I know/experienced and am trying to help you and your wallet.

And of course I'm wrong to some extent. I'm SURE there are reliable german cars out there.

I'm just saying I wouldn't take my chances.....

You still haven't answered, have you ever owned a German luxury car?
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,999
63
91
I'm not here to be right or wrong.

That's all of your jobs (it seems).

:biggrin:

I simply tell you what I know/experienced and am trying to help you and your wallet.

And of course I'm wrong to some extent. I'm SURE there are reliable german cars out there.

I'm just saying I wouldn't take my chances.....

If you're speaking "reality" you have the responsibility to be right.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
You still haven't answered, have you ever owned a German luxury car?

Yes, and I have maintained/fixed and worked on many cars within our family/friends/neighbors over last 15 years.

I'm not a mechanic either. Truth is, most "european" car mechanics won't tell you the truth as they would kill their own business/business case.

:biggrin:

I will give a little example of poor german engineering that these cars seemed to be infested with.

E90 BMW (base/bmw staple they say)......go ahead and find the fusebox or change the fuse. You know how I found it? Door mechanism/electronics were doing random shit. QUick internet search lead me to 10 amp fuse which BMW skimmped out on, putting in 30amp (something that should be there to begin with) to fix the issue. Some haven't been so lucky when the system fails and requires costly repair. And the location of the fusebox is just brilliant piece of engineering.....

I have a better one for you. BMW WELDS a F'in sensor onto their radiators so that when it fails (which happens often) it requires radiator swap. Nice ehh? Great engineering there!!! Mind you, many ignore the CEL, until you have to get emissions and you are screwed/forced to change it.

I love this one. BMW stopped putting dipsticks into their cars. Now you rely on electronics (vary thing that they have a horrible history of) to check your oil!

I can go on and on....

Here, check out one thread I did on my mom's POS
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2311880&highlight=

:biggrin:

I kind of don't blame BMW really. Ignorant people still buy their cars and things like above make them TONS of money. Why should they stop? So go ahead, keep buying your BMWs.

:biggrin:

Every single time I work on my/my family/friends car I get these "WTF were they thinking" moments. I constnatly pull cheap/crappy designed parts of these cars and wonder how in the world people buy them.

I can give you plenty more examples too if you would like. And we are talking here and there work. I'm not a mechanic and work on cars so often.

Mind you, there is plenty of things they do right too (I like where BMW puts their oil filters for example).

Anyways, since you guys are so offended at my advice I will tell you what you want to hear and advice I probably wouldn't give to my worst enemy.

Buy BMWs, they are great cars with exceptional German engineering that will withstand the test of time and are a pinnacle of reliability.

Good luck
 
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heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,999
63
91
Yes, and I have maintained/fixed and worked on many cars within our family/friends/neighbors over last 15 years.

I'm not a mechanic either. Truth is, most "european" car mechanics won't tell you the truth as they would kill their own business/business case.

:biggrin:

I will give a little example of poor german engineering that these cars seemed to be infested with.

E90 BMW (base/bmw staple they say)......go ahead and find the fusebox or change the fuse. You know how I found it? Door mechanism/electronics were doing random shit. QUick internet search lead me to 10 amp fuse which BMW skimmped out on, putting in 30amp (something that should be there to begin with) to fix the issue. Some haven't been so lucky when the system fails and requires costly repair. And the location of the fusebox is just brilliant piece of engineering.....

I have a better one for you. BMW WELDS a F'in sensor onto their radiators so that when it fails (which happens often) it requires radiator swap. Nice ehh? Great engineering there!!! Mind you, many ignore the CEL, until you have to get emissions and you are screwed/forced to change it.

I love this one. BMW stopped putting dipsticks into their cars. Now you rely on electronics (vary thing that they have a horrible history of) to check your oil!

:biggrin:

I kind of don't blame BMW really. Ignorant people still buy their cars and things like above make them TONS of money. Why should they stop? So go ahead, keep buying your BMWs.

:biggrin:

I can go on and on......every single time I work on my/my family/friends car I get these "WTF were they thinking" moments. I constnatly pull cheap/crappy designed parts of these cars and wonder how in the world people buy them.

I can give you plenty of more examples too if you would like.

Mind you, there is plenty of things they do right too (I like where BMW puts their oil filters for example).

Anyways, since you guys are so offended at my advice I will tell you what you want to hear.

Buy BMWs, they are great cars with exceptional German engineering that will withstand the test of time and are a pinnacle of reliability.

Do you realize how many cars don't have dipsticks?

Here's a winner for you! Replace the tail light assembly on a 2012-2014.5 Toyota Camry.

REMOVE REAR BUMPER (the hell?)
remove luggage compartment mat
remove rear floor finish plate
remove luggage compartment trim hook
remove luggage compartment inner trim cover
Remove light assembly

On my 2004 Ford expedition you know how you removed a tail light assembly? Open rear liftgate. Remove two tail light assembly screws. Pull tail light straight outward until alignment pins are clear of holes. DONE
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
Do you realize how many cars don't have dipsticks?

Here's a winner for you! Replace the tail light assembly on a 2012-2014.5 Toyota Camry.

REMOVE REAR BUMPER (the hell?)
remove luggage compartment mat
remove rear floor finish plate
remove luggage compartment trim hook
remove luggage compartment inner trim cover
Remove light assembly

On my 2004 Ford expedition you know how you removed a tail light assembly? Open rear liftgate. Remove two tail light assembly screws. Pull tail light straight outward until alignment pins are clear of holes. DONE

Every car has it's quirks (I work on American/Japanesse cars too), but German cars really stand out to me when it comes to these things.

They know who their client base is.....and they know how to bend them over and rape them proper.

If you want to be that guy, be my guest.

And yes, many cars don't have dipsticks. German or not, I will never buy such car (no thanks)

And yes, MOST companies now make disposable cars so that they can keep selling you a new one every few years.

I blame the people, not the companies! They are simply in business to extract as much money from you as possible.
 

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
52
91
I'm not a mechanic either.

This is clear.

E90 BMW (base/bmw staple they say)......go ahead and find the fusebox or change the fuse. You know how I found it? Door mechanism/electronics were doing random shit. QUick internet search lead me to 10 amp fuse which BMW skimmped out on, putting in 30amp (something that should be there to begin with) to fix the issue. Some haven't been so lucky when the system fails and requires costly repair. And the location of the fusebox is just brilliant piece of engineering.....

The fusebox being in the back of the glove compartment never once impeded my ability to work on the car. They used a 10 amp fuse because that's what the circuit calls for and it is supposed to pop the fuse if it is drawing more. Swapping in a higher amperage fuse isn't a fix, it's a weak patch - but as you mentioned you aren't a mechanic.

I have a better one for you. BMW WELDS a F'in sensor onto their radiators so that when it fails (which happens often) it requires radiator swap. Nice ehh? Great engineering there!!! Mind you, many ignore the CEL, until you have to get emissions and you are screwed/forced to change it.

The sensor is covered by the 150k mile emissions warranty. It is welded on because it measures to make sure the appropriate coating is inside the radiator.

I love this one. BMW stopped putting dipsticks into their cars. Now you rely on electronics (vary thing that they have a horrible history of) to check your oil!

That's a normal thing now.

Based on the amount of "fixing" you need to do, it sounds like you take shit care of your cars to be honest.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
The fusebox being in the back of the glove compartment never once impeded my ability to work on the car. They used a 10 amp fuse because that's what the circuit calls for and it is supposed to pop the fuse if it is drawing more. Swapping in a higher amperage fuse isn't a fix, it's a weak patch - but as you mentioned you aren't a mechanic.

Is that why it's been over 3 years and everything seems fine?

The sensor is covered by the 150k mile emissions warranty. It is welded on because it measures to make sure the appropriate coating is inside the radiator.

It's not covered under 150k mile emissions warranty. My step pops took it to BMW to have it replaces as I was busy and couldn't work on it.

Unless the all mighty BMW lied (wouldn't surprise me).

Regardless, you are making poor excuses for shitty engineering. Even if covered, it's POOR design.

That's a normal thing now.

Based on the amount of "fixing" you need to do, it sounds like you take shit care of your cars to be honest.

Yea, cause I'm ONLY working on my cars.

All of my cars are 15 years old.......that's the evidence of my poor shitty care for sure.

You sound like you are a mechanic that doesn't make enough/wants repeat business. I don't blame you, I would recommend German cars too!
 

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
52
91
Is that why it's been over 3 years and everything seems fine?

This is pretty simple EE here. The circuit is supposed to draw x number of amps, it's drawing more, that means something on the circuit is operating out of spec of has a short. You did not fix it correctly.


It's not covered under 150k mile emissions warranty. My step pops took it to BMW to have it replaces as I was busy and couldn't work on it.

Unless the all mighty BMW lied (wouldn't surprise me).

Then your "step pops" should have taken it up with them further. I'm fairly certain that's an EPA covered component.

Regardless, you are making poor excuses for shitty engineering. Even if covered, it's POOR design.

I don't see anything particularly poor about it.

Yea, cause I'm ONLY working on my cars.

All of my cars are 15 years old.......that's the evidence of my poor shitty care for sure.

You sound like you are a mechanic that doesn't make enough/wants repeat business. I don't blame you, I would recommend German cars too!

Some people own cars 15 years without half the issues you seem to have. Not a mechanic, but I have had a pair of BMWs (E9x in fact) and I had minimal problems. Great driving cars that did exactly what I asked of them with minimal issue. Your vendetta is just obnoxious to everyone else.

Congrats on the new car OP, good choice!
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
Not to mention the 10amp fuse is designed to protect the components behind it. By replacing it with a higher rated fuse, he's guaranteeing the components to fail if there's a short; he didn't try to find out why it's shorting, but just want to make sure if it does, it won't bother him... So many fails that I couldn't care to bother or too lazy to reply to on a phone. But, we all know he's an idiot by now.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
This is pretty simple EE here. The circuit is supposed to draw x number of amps, it's drawing more, that means something on the circuit is operating out of spec of has a short. You did not fix it correctly.

You seem to forget that this sort of thing shouldn't go wrong if it was designed proper.

And, 100s of people have been successful with this fix....and it's been fine for 3 years.

I did not fix it correctly, yet it worked. Seems like you are quite disattached from reality and want to think what you want to think.

I will let you.



Then your "step pops" should have taken it up with them further. I'm fairly certain that's an EPA covered component.

Ok, and?

This is pretty simple EE here. The I don't see anything particularly poor about it.

Cause you accept things that should never be happening to begin with. I know the feeling. Life of a euro car enthusiast. I was there, don't worry.


Some people own cars 15 years without half the issues you seem to have. Not a mechanic, but I have had a pair of BMWs (E9x in fact) and I had minimal problems. Great driving cars that did exactly what I asked of them with minimal issue. Your vendetta is just obnoxious to everyone else.

Come back in 5-10 years and tell me about your reliability.

Even then, I will take your words with a grain of salt as you are already accept things that ARE, but SHOULDN'T be.

All is dandy
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
Not to mention the 10amp fuse is designed to protect the components behind it. By replacing it with a higher rated fuse, he's guaranteeing the components to fail if there's a short; he didn't try to find out why it's shorting, but just want to make sure if it does, it won't bother him... So many fails that I couldn't care to bother or too lazy to reply to on a phone. But, we all know he's an idiot by now.

Spoken like a true Euro snob.

Why are you still dwelling on the 10amp fuse BS? It's fixed and it works for 100s of people in BMW community.

And the knowledge you possess, just impressive. You are an expert.

And also quite mature to resort to name calling.

You do own a BWM, don't you?

:biggrin:
 
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