Should i get Dual Processors?

[LatexRat]

I have been kinda looking into upgrading to dual processors. I run many memory and cpu intensive apps at the same time . Ftp, streaming, news, and rar extraction/compression. Also, the overhead from 4 hard drives.

I have read that there is a handful of programs that actually take advantage on 2 processor. What i am wondering is.. will windows let you assign different processes to each processor. So perhaps i could have all windows services running on 1 processor, and media encryption on the other? Not to speed things up by processing the same task with 2 processors, but to spread out all tasks over the 2 ..

Thanks

 

[CraigRT]

I am not sure about the services... but you CAN assign certain programs to certain CPU's... dual processor really isn't overly beneficial because not every program can utilize them. I personally would go with 1 very fast CPU, but for cool factor, nothing beats Dual AMD MP's If you have any questions, I have a Windows 2000 Server computer right beside me (supports upto 4 CPU's)

 

[techfuzz]

About 2 1/2 years ago I built a dual P3 - 866 Mhz computer that I still use today along side my newer and "faster" Athlon XP 2400+. I would trade my 2400+ any day for another dual processor computer. "Once you go dual, you won't go back" is what they say over at 2CPU.com, and they are for the most part they are right! The ability to run multiple programs even non-SMP capable programs on a dual processor computer just feels faster and more responsive.

You can configure services to run on either processor of your choosing, so you could assign an FTP and WWW services to run on processor #1 and then SMTP and NNTP on the other. However, it's best you let Windows handle all that for you automatically. If you want to choose the processor affinity for certain services it isn't that easy, but it can be configured after some hard work.

techfuzz

 

[Doh!]

I still have a dual setup with 2x366@550 on an Abit BP6 board. Well, I really don't need it anymore since I've got so many machines but I do miss running it as a main rig.

 

[MrEgo]

I ran a dual Athlon MP 1900+ rig just for every day use.. like games, internet, MP3 playing, etc, and there was actually a disadvantage having a dual setup. A single Athlon XP 1900+ would score higher on benchmarks related to what I used my computer for. I definitely should have done my homework to see what the benefits of a Dual rig would be.. so for every day use do NOT get one. It costs a lot of money (relative to a single CPU rig), and it doesn't seem to go any faster if not slower than a single CPU.

 

[Remedy]

it doesn't seem to go any faster if not slower than a single CPU.

Because that is NOT the intention of having Multiple processors and the most common misconception most enthusiast on this forum have on these types of system setups. latexRat, if your software is that memory bandwidth intensive, then Dual processors aren't exactly what you're looking for. You should be looking @ a setup that will give you 1, raw memory bandwidth and 2, X clock speed per dollar. Windows already does the job of load balancing appliacation threads between processors. You can also use SMPseesaw ware tool. But for your type of software being used isn't really aimed at 2 processors. Especially for memory bandwidth where dual processor setups actually need bw to fulfill both Cpu 0, 1. My suggestion to you is to look @ a Pentium 4@ 3.06+ with Hyperthreading and a SiS655 chipset with 2GB(512x4) of DDR memory. it would be cheaper to build and update than the 2 processor setups, not to mention alot more efficenent. You said you want to spread the task out, but are you prepared to take a impact on clock speed for what you want to do? Check out the prices of what you want in a DP setup verse an SP setup and make the decision.

Xeons and AthlonMP's are your choice and the boards run from 199 all the way up to 800$. Processors of 2? 200 a proceesor (based on xeon prices) or 500 total plus a motherboard on an average of 300$ and memory to fill the slots and a Power supply to feed it. So think it over.

 

[human2k]

you should!

 

[propellerhead]

I've been thinking about this too -- mainly for the geekness of it. But from what I've read online, it doesn't seem worth it. I think tomshardware.com has an article on benchmarks on dual processor machines, but the benchmarks test was running a single thread, I think.

 

[Aso]

I am running a dual P3 1ghz machine one a Abit VP6 motherboard with 1gb of ram and I wouldnt trade if for anything else but another dually. I do development work on it(Java, .Net, webstuff) along with the normal use stuff and it makes a big difference on the development side. I hate having to go to work and use a single proc machine. I do agree with the others that it is really dependant on what you are going to be using the machine for.

 

[techfuzz]

Originally posted by: propellerhead
I've been thinking about this too -- mainly for the geekness of it. But from what I've read online, it doesn't seem worth it. I think tomshardware.com has an article on benchmarks on dual processor machines, but the benchmarks test was running a single thread, I think.

Check out 2CPU.com for everything dual processor related.

techfuzz

 

[TerryMathews]

You have to really consider what you want to use your computer for. I don't know much about Xeons, but Athlon duallys are somewhat RAM bandwidth constricted, especially when you compare them with nForce2 boards that can hit upwards of 200MHz FSB.

If the tasks you are trying to do are CPU bound and not memory bound, you will see a very cost effective improvement moving to a dual-processor setup.

OTOH, Q3 does not run (much) faster on a dual CPU system vs. a single CPU system, and nowadays the r_smp 1 command actually degrades system performance by quite a bit. iD broke it in one of the patches.

A toy computer will be better off as a single CPU on nForce2. A work machine will see a benifit running dual CPUs, especially if you multitask.

 

[LatexRat]

Thanks for all your input Keep it coming .

well its definatly not a gaming computer .. im not going for the highest fps in quake 3
This thing is a File server mainly .

Streams files across the network
runs Relax media service which streams media across the network
FTP
Remote Admin
extracts and compresses alot of rar files
Newsbin

Most of these things are running 100% of the time 24/7

So if dual processors will keep the pc responsive while extracting files and writing to multible drives like mad .. I see it as a viable solution.

 

[SpideyCU]

You could add video encoding to the list of tasks if you get a dual CPU setup. I like to make servers do more things than they should, hee hee.

 

[techfuzz]

Originally posted by: LatexRat
Streams files across the network
runs Relax media service which streams media across the network
FTP
Remote Admin
extracts and compresses alot of rar files
Newsbin

Media streaming, FTP, and Newsbin for the most part are NOT cpu intensive programs, unless you are encoding on the fly with the media streaming. While they each might use a little bit of the CPU they are not consuming a lot all at once. Remote Admin stuff does put a little bit more of a strain on the cpu than your average program, but still it isn't anywhere near intensive by any definition of the word. These programs are mostly network intensive programs, not cpu intensive.

Extracting and compressing files on the other hand IS very intensive. Unfortunately most extraction/compression programs are NOT written and compiled to take advantage of smp's. On the plus side, usually you end up extracting a set of rar files and Windows dedicates a processor just to that task until it completes. So you have the extracting/compression taking up a whole processor but in the mean time you still have another processor that is only being used marginally by the rest of the system and its services. If you planned on working while doing extractions and such you would most definitely benefit from a dual processor system based on what you have told us.

techfuzz

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: LatexRat
So if dual processors will keep the pc responsive while extracting files and writing to multible drives like mad .. I see it as a viable solution.

You hit the nail on the head. Duallys are for keeping the system responsive while it's doing something else. And it's a very viable solution. You'll pay double on the mobo realistically, and pay double on the processors 'cuz you'll need a second one, but if your CPU limited, it's far cheaper than building a second box.

Two CPUs aren't a handicap, but they aren't the be all and end all some geeks make them out to be. That being said, if you have realistic expectations going into it, you will be very happy with a dually.

 

[damonpip]

Yea that's totally correct. And in your case, if you are maxing out your CPUs power, you might want to consider a dual. Windows will automatically splie the tasks up between the CPUs, so it's a beast for multitasking. Of course, you'll need some dececnt CPUs to beat out a 3.06 still. I'd reccomend getting an Iwill MPX2 mobo and two 2600+ MP cpus. Or if you're feeling upto it, get the fastest TBreds you can afford and do the L5 mod on them.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: damonpip
I'd reccomend getting an Iwill MPX2 mobo and two 2600+ MP cpus. Or if you're feeling upto it, get the fastest TBreds you can afford and do the L5 mod on them.

I'd recommend the MPX2 also, but it's out of production so YMMV. MSI's K7D Master-L is a good board also, doesn't have the FSB headroom that the Iwill does, but the MSI board can control Vcore and mults, something that no other MPX board (with the exception of early MPX2s) can do.

To all the naysayers: the K7D does work correctly with mults > 12.5x, assuming that you:
A) start with a proc that has the 8x mult bit set (Default multiplier of 13x or greater)
B) cut the bridge that controls the 8x mult bit, thereby setting manually.

Then, to set the multipliers, you just set 8x lower than your aiming for, as that 8x bit will be added to the others that the board can control.

In essence, the K7D can OC the 2100+ Tbred B as well as any nForce2 board. Just not those high FSB speeds.

 

[SpideyCU]

I had a question, but I'll ask it here rather than starting a new thread because the answer should be short and it's on exactly the same topic! My dad asked me to build him a new system - he wanted it essentially dedicated for doing video capture/conversion. He's going to digitally record all of his VHS tapes, and as a "hobby" will be doing it for friends and family for a small fee (to cover the parts, like the DVD media). We all know that dual setups are great for encoding, but, I'm trying to look at the price vs. how long it'd take him to do his encoding. I know hands-down that, say, a dual MP 2600+ setup will blow the water out of ANYTHING I can put together with a single CPU, but that's well over $600 for the mobo and two processors alone, not to even mention the overhead for getting ECC memory.

So I guess my question is this - if I'm limited to around $300-400 for the board and CPU alone, would I be better off going with a lower-end dually setup, or just shoot for the fastest I can get under a single processor? I think I remember that Duron 1.3 GHz chips can run in MP setups just fine, and they're like $38 each, but I imagine that's a waste and we wouldn't benefit unless we got something significantly higher.

 

[eklass]

if you're not sure, then i would say "no"

 

[Turbopit]

I've been using a VP6 with 2x PIII700's overclocked since that board came out. GREAT for multitasking. Such as converting mp3's while burning already converted music, running autocad, serving webpages, etc....

I'll miss that set up, except I've had multiple problems with the set up not related specifically to having dull cpu's so I am going to a single P4 system for now.

It's more money for the mobo/cpu's as was mentioned though. That is the only "downside" I saw.

 

[TerryMathews]

Spidey: A dual board does not have to be nearly that expensive. A MSI MPX Athlon dually + a pair of 2100+ XP Tbred Bs should be less than $400. MPX boards do not require ECC or registered RAM, but to use more than two sticks concurrently, you must use registered ECC RAM.

Cliffs notes: MSI MPX - $170 at the most - NewEgg
2x 2100XP Tbred Bs - $200 at the most - NewEgg (Should hit way over 2GHz/pc)
2x 512MB DDR - $110 - Anywhere
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kickass video encoding workstation - $480 + cost of case, HDs, CD, and vid cap card.

 

[damonpip]

SpideyCU, you should be able to get a really good dual Athlon mobo for $200. Then you'd be able to get some TBreds for it (you just have to connect a L5 bridge to get XPs to work, instead of using MPs) You could get 2100+ Tbreds for $88 each and overclock them to 2600+ speed with no trouble.
For RAM, I'd highly reccommend just going ahead and getting registered RAM, it's higher quiality and gives you the ability to upgrade a lot cheaper in the future.

 

[SpideyCU]

I'm aware of the L5 bridge connection to make them MP-usable...that'll work for any XP, won't it? If so, that opens my options a bit more.

My only question is what you said about the memory.

"2x 512MB DDR - $110 - Anywhere" - Where? I was barely able to find two sticks of 512MB PC2700, unregistered, for $65*2. In order to use more than one stick, I'll need ECC...this is available cheaper than non-ECC?

In any case, if the MSI board is reasonable at overclocking, then the 2100+ is definitely an option. I was simply under the impression that dually boards weren't ones for any substantial overclocks. In this case, that dual board should last quite a while for all the encoding needs we'll be throwing at it.

 

[bozo1]

In order to use more than one stick, I'll need ECC...this is available cheaper than non-ECC?

In order to use more than one stick, you'll need Registered memory, not ECC. However, usually when you see Registered for sale, it is ECC as well but it doesn't have to be.

In any case, if the MSI board is reasonable at overclocking, then the 2100+ is definitely an option.

None of the dual boards have much in the way of overclocking features.

 

[damonpip]

I don't know about the MSIs overclocking, but I'm pretty sure the Iwill is pretty good, if you can get your hands on one.