Should I go Solar or not?

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drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,422
205
116
nope, gas on the heat side, elec on the a/c side. also gas water heater.

if fans use a lot of elec then i'm screwed. lol

Something isn't right then. I use between 600-700kwh for a 2600sqft home in winter. Computer stays on for 12-24 hrs, 2 deep freezers, gas for dryer, furnace, water heater, electric range (I cook meals on it every day). Only time I go over 1000 is cooling season
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,491
1,683
136
yes, i read about how the system is wired for cutting power completely when a power failure occurs. wish i could push a switch and disconnect from the mains and just run on solar.

Some new inverters can allow limited power when the power is down. How it works for my two SMA inverters is that each one has a outlet below it that I can switch on when I loose grid power and can provide up to 1500-watts as long as you have enough sun. It is called secure power supply. However this will not be possible with micro-inverters that are done per panel on the roof.

http://files.sma.de/dl/18726/EPS-US-TB-en-11.pdf
 

Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,246
11
76
I'm glad that I stumbled across this thread. I am purchasing a property on a mediterranean island that has huge solar potential. I am looking for the best solar panels on the market (internationally) and it seems that Sunpower (USA) has the best that there is. By 'best' I mean the capacity to convert solar to electricity, and the Sunpower ones are in the 20+% range.

I don't mean to thread hijack, but for me the calculation was pretty easy. It's a factor of capital cost, efficiency and expected solar potential, and the cost of electricity in your area. Good luck.
Have any of you read about the American tests on transparent solar panels? I'll eventually upgrade this property to change all of its windows into those, too. They have much lower efficiency, but with the solar panels on the roof and the windows serving as solar panels I should have so much power generation (through efficient panels) that I could power an electric car easily, sell some back to the grid, etc.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,201
10,063
136
Something isn't right then. I use between 600-700kwh for a 2600sqft home in winter. Computer stays on for 12-24 hrs, 2 deep freezers, gas for dryer, furnace, water heater, electric range (I cook meals on it every day). Only time I go over 1000 is cooling season
I agree. Look into why you're using so much.
From my latest bill i averaged 366KWH per month for the last 12 months. I have electric hot water tank, dryer & water pump. Heat tape in the winter & 2 window AC units when needed in the summer. Computer runs 24/7 except on hot summer days. I don't unplug electronics when not being used. Propane furnace but blower runs a lot in the winter.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Hi Darwin, thank you for replying. I have a large, flat roof with approx 1100 sq ft. no trees, power lines, other big houses. it's completely exposed, which is why my 1920's brick house gets heated so fast and for so long in the summer. it's also why I had my 3-ton AC installed onto.

Any info and advise would be appreciated, especially with these SREC's. Thanks to all for telling me about that. I had no idea.

What type of roof do you currently have and how old is it?

It will depend on your structure if you can go with a non-penetrating ballasted system or if you will have to punch a bunch of holes into your flat roof. I will tell you this from experience that you should absolutely have a real roofer flash any penetrations in a flat roof. Solar installers, at least in my experience, really really suck at flashing flat roof penetrations. Steep slope is much easier since the water is already going downhill at a decent pace so simply caulking it works. Caulk is not a suitable waterproofing method on a flat roof ever.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Out of curiosity, what percentage of the installed price is labor, what percentage is materials?

Off the top of my head 70/30 materials/labor. I'm including insurance and other "labor burden" in the cost of labor and again just purely from the top of my head.

Some companies that only install 2 or 3 "cookie cutter" systems get it down to 20-25%. I've never cared for companies like that though, if you don't have the expertise to throw together a custom system best suited for an individual application then I wouldn't want you installing $25-$50K worth of anything on my property.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
I agree. Look into why you're using so much.
From my latest bill i averaged 366KWH per month for the last 12 months. I have electric hot water tank, dryer & water pump. Heat tape in the winter & 2 window AC units when needed in the summer. Computer runs 24/7 except on hot summer days. I don't unplug electronics when not being used. Propane furnace but blower runs a lot in the winter.

if i had the old analog meter, i could just unplug everything and see if the needle moved. but now since i'm on the digital, it's almost impossible to tell if that needle moved, unless i cut the power to the entire house or hire a electrician.

this weekend i'm going away so maybe i'll cut everything, record the meter number and see if increases up or not.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
What type of roof do you currently have and how old is it?

It will depend on your structure if you can go with a non-penetrating ballasted system or if you will have to punch a bunch of holes into your flat roof. I will tell you this from experience that you should absolutely have a real roofer flash any penetrations in a flat roof. Solar installers, at least in my experience, really really suck at flashing flat roof penetrations. Steep slope is much easier since the water is already going downhill at a decent pace so simply caulking it works. Caulk is not a suitable waterproofing method on a flat roof ever.

i have a flat root. it was replaced in 2011 when i bought the house. they did a shitty job on the replacement

that's good info to know about the types of installation for different roofs.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
i have a flat root. it was replaced in 2011 when i bought the house. they did a shitty job on the replacement

that's good info to know about the types of installation for different roofs.

There are many different types of flat roofs and I am trying to figure out the specific type. Do you have a picture of it perhaps or can you describe how it looks? What color is the surface of it, does the surface have granules embedded in an asphalt like material or is it smooth and look like rubber? Did they put down any ISO insulation (usually yellow in the middle with a green facer)? Around here it's very likely to be a SBS roof system but I don't know whats prevalent up there and why do you say they did a shitty job?

Another question: Does your energy bill vary a lot between summer and winter? Do you have electric heating and central AC?
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Are you on a well? I got a huge electric bill one month compared to normal and found that the drop pipe on the well had rusted through and the well pump was running 24/7. It was keeping up as we noticed no drop in water pressure or volume but the leak never allowed it to satisfy the pressure switch and it just ran and ran and ran.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
There are many different types of flat roofs and I am trying to figure out the specific type. Do you have a picture of it perhaps or can you describe how it looks? What color is the surface of it, does the surface have granules embedded in an asphalt like material or is it smooth and look like rubber? Did they put down any ISO insulation (usually yellow in the middle with a green facer)? Around here it's very likely to be a SBS roof system but I don't know whats prevalent up there and why do you say they did a shitty job?

Another question: Does your energy bill vary a lot between summer and winter? Do you have electric heating and central AC?

i'm an idiot with this, but i'll do my best. it's black and it's pretty smooth. no rough materials embedded (aka, basically tar paper). i'm not sure about the insulation.

summer it normally hovers around 1000-1100kwh, winter time around 6-700kwh. since i'm at 1000kwh i'm going to wait until it gets a bit warmer to see how high it goes.

shitty job i'll explain later when i get home from work.

Edit: forgot to update. When they did the replacement they failed to secure the drain which caused a leak that accumulated and caused my bathroom ceiling to collapse.
 
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Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
Are you on a well? I got a huge electric bill one month compared to normal and found that the drop pipe on the well had rusted through and the well pump was running 24/7. It was keeping up as we noticed no drop in water pressure or volume but the leak never allowed it to satisfy the pressure switch and it just ran and ran and ran.

no. i'm in the NYC tri-state area.
 

zardthebuilder

Senior member
Feb 8, 2012
211
0
71
did you try logging into your account and see if your utility provides power consumption graphs? my provider provides graphs in 1-hour intervals, 1-day intervals, and 1-bill cycle intervals. when everyone is asleep, my usage is around 0.6 kW per hour. so the stuff that run 24 hours per day -- my air purifiers, night lights, hot water recirculator, routers, off tv's, etc. -- are accounting for about 14 kWh per day.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
did you try logging into your account and see if your utility provides power consumption graphs? my provider provides graphs in 1-hour intervals, 1-day intervals, and 1-bill cycle intervals. when everyone is asleep, my usage is around 0.6 kW per hour. so the stuff that run 24 hours per day -- my air purifiers, night lights, hot water recirculator, routers, off tv's, etc. -- are accounting for about 14 kWh per day.
Last I checked they don't provide detailed graphs. They only provide month to month usage for a year. So from April 2015 through April 2016.

I'll log in again once I get to work.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
I've had this idea of having a solar panel on the bed of my truck, with weather sealed batteries underneath. As much as it sits out in the sun and with a 6.5ft bed, you could probably have a 250-500watt setup with batteries that weighs like 200-300lbs...which really isn't much more weight to carry, and drag would be pretty much nothing added.


Oh, looks like someone done it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENp6_1JeAWI
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
i'm an idiot with this, but i'll do my best. it's black and it's pretty smooth. no rough materials embedded (aka, basically tar paper). i'm not sure about the insulation.

summer it normally hovers around 1000-1100kwh, winter time around 6-700kwh. since i'm at 1000kwh i'm going to wait until it gets a bit warmer to see how high it goes.

shitty job i'll explain later when i get home from work.

Edit: forgot to update. When they did the replacement they failed to secure the drain which caused a leak that accumulated and caused my bathroom ceiling to collapse.

Sorry for the late reply. It sounds like you have a BUR (built up roofing) system with no coating. Generally they are at least flood coated with asphalt and graveled but considering this is a residential roof the structure might not have been able to handle it.

The very first thing I would do is go to a roofing supply store (NOT Home Depot or Lowes) and buy a reflective roof coating. Buy the good stuff, it will be a bit expensive but you aren't covering that many SF so it shouldn't cost you too much and you can easily install it yourself. Pressure wash the roof clean and you literally paint it on with paint rollers on the end of a stick. This will serve two purposes, first it protects your roof from the sun that your currently black roof is just sucking up like crazy. Secondly it drastically reduces your roofs temperature which in turn drastically reduces the heat that is transmitted from the sun to your roof to your attic to your conditioned living areas. It is also supposed to keep heat in during the winter but I'm in the deep south so our only goal is lowering cooling costs.

I honestly would not put a solar system on a bare built up roof system without some sort of coating on it. The roof is just way too likely to degrade fairly quickly and it will cost that much more to reroof. Step number one in going solar is making sure the substrate, in this case your roof, is very likely to remain in good working condition for a long time.

With that said, there are some pretty nifty non-penetrating racking systems for flat roofs. If I get a chance I'll try to look up the wind speeds in your area to see what sort of ballast would be required and see if you think your structure can handle it. If you do go with a penetrating system (they put screws through your flat roof) GET A ROOFER TO INSTALL THE FEET TO THE RACKING SYSTEM. I can't stress that enough, solar barely know that the roof goes on top. They get away with it on steep slope systems because the water naturally wants to get off the roof very quickly so a few dabs of caulk will work. On a flat roof caulk is NEVER used as a primary waterproofing product, never ever ever. I can't tell you how many pretty ass flat roofs I've been called out to look at because they had solar installed and the very next rain it literally leaked like a sieve. I was able to repair them but not a single one of those roofs will ever be in anywhere near the condition as they were the day before the solar guys got there.

Matter of fact, if you decide to coat the roof you should email me the name of the product your roofing supply store tries to sell you. Andek is my favorite product but you might not have a distributor in your area and it's expensive as shit to buy online.

Over 20 years experience in estimating/managing commercial roofing and 7 years experience in solar design and management.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I've had this idea of having a solar panel on the bed of my truck, with weather sealed batteries underneath. As much as it sits out in the sun and with a 6.5ft bed, you could probably have a 250-500watt setup with batteries that weighs like 200-300lbs...which really isn't much more weight to carry, and drag would be pretty much nothing added.


Oh, looks like someone done it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENp6_1JeAWI

I was actually thinking of doing something similar for mobile "generators" after hurricanes and certain job sites without access to power. Mostly we need to charge cordless batteries and run screw guns so the load isn't huge. It would have to be something that folded up relatively flat or rectangular and fit in the bed and then unfolded on the job site which has the benefit of being able to be pointed in the right direction. Just been lazy and haven't gotten around to putting pencil to paper.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Lot's of stuff. Water heater, fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, cooking appliances, entertainment electronics. Especially the water heater, fridge and freezer, those could run 24/7 if they are defective and could easily run 1000 khh+ a month all by themselves.

Unless you literally meant that your house only has lights, a PC and a furnace. Then you have no need for solar because you live in a shoebox.

A refrigerator or freezer uses approximately 300 watts. Or .3 Kw. Multiply that by 24 hours, and then 30 days, and you get 216 KWh.

1000 KWh in 30 days comes out to 33 KWh a day. That is quite normal if the central air is used quite a bit. Heck, even a window AC and two spare freezers can make hitting 33 KWh a day easy peasy.
 
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