Should I lease or buy?

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I will soon be getting a used car and was planning on taking out a loan to buy it, but then I realized that it is possible to lease even a used car. I originally thought you could only lease new vehicles. So as you can see I don't know much about leasing, but I have been doing a little reading on it. It seems good, I pay to use the car for a few years then if I don't like it I can give it back, or if I do like it I can buy it. The payments should be cheaper as I would only being paying for the depreciation of the car as opposed to the full price of the car, and as of right now cheaper payments would be nice. I am just wondering if there is something I am missing that would make it a bad idea, or maybe just something that would make buying a better idea. Thanks
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Also I was looking at payment calculators and I noticed for lease payments it nees the residual value of the car, what is this and how do i figure it?
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< Also I was looking at payment calculators and I noticed for lease payments it nees the residual value of the car, what is this and how do i figure it? >>



Residual value is what the car is worth when you're done with it.

Basically by leasing you're making payments on the depreciation of the vehicle that happens while you have it.

Viper GTS <-- Could be wrong...
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,427
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<< Basically by leasing you're making payments on the depreciation of the vehicle that happens while you have it. >>

thats right.



a used vehicle will have a higher residual value in terms of percent than a new vehicle. i'm not a big fan of leasing new vehicles, but leasing a used one might be a good decision, from a PDV standpoint.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
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Viper is correct, and make sure you lease a car with a *high* residual. BMW traditionally has a very high residual, whilst other companies, like Ford, don't. Also, you have to note the money factor, which is essentially the interest rate you're going to be paying. The cap cost is the total price of the vehicle, so don't let them say you can't haggle the cap cost.

Personally, I wouldn't lease a used vehicle as I imagine the residual would be entirely too low.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
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<< a used vehicle will have a higher residual value in terms of percent than a new vehicle. i'm not a big fan of leasing new vehicles, but leasing a used one might be a good decision, from a PDV standpoint. >>



I didn't know that was the case, so I'll recant my statement.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< Personally, I wouldn't lease a used vehicle as I imagine the residual would be entirely too low. >>



Actually, as a percentage, a used car would have a higher value than a new one.

Remember that new cars lose a crapload of value the minute you drive them off the lot.

Viper GTS
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,423
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The biggest question you need to ask yourself is "How long do I plan to keep the car"?

If you are like me, and you tire of the same car quickly, and you dump them every couple years, leasing is the way to go. You get cheaper payments, and you'll never be upside down, assuming you don't put any money down on a loan.

If you like to keep your cars more than two or three years, stretch out your financing another year and just go for the loan.

I just recently leased a used car through my credit union. I did it for 3 years at 15,000 miles a year. I get charged $.10 a mile for my overages, which is pretty dang cheap. I'm happy with it because by the time I'm done with my lease, I'll be in expensive wear and tear replacment time for my car and instead of paying $300 for new tires, $250 for struts, $300 for timing chain, ect, I just turn in the car and walk away. Nothing to hassle with.

It works well for me since I have pretty high turnover in vehicles. Leasing isn't for everyone though.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0


<< The biggest question you need to ask yourself is "How long do I plan to keep the car"?

If you are like me, and you tire of the same car quickly, and you dump them every couple years, leasing is the way to go. You get cheaper payments, and you'll never be upside down, assuming you don't put any money down on a loan.

If you like to keep your cars more than two or three years, stretch out your financing another year and just go for the loan.
>>

That's the skinny of it.

The problem with your "lease now with option of buyout" is that probably you're going to get to the end, realize that you have $5-10k you have to pay to own it and say screw that, and just lease a new car so you'll be forever with payments. This assumes you don't/can't get a loan to pay off that remaining money.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
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Unless you have a tax position that a lease maybe deducted for, say, a business whereby the vehicle is used for business purposes, I would not advise a lease. The residual almost always is higher than the value,and when you return the vehicle, the dealer will go over it with a fine tooth comb and hit you with every ding, stain, scratch and all the milage on the tires. Then ,you are governed by how many miles you can drive. If you sign for 12000/yr or even 15000/yr, you will find yourself out of free miles and paying milage at rates like $.10/mile for all overage at the end of the lease.

I have leased two vehicles and I do use them in business, but this is the last lease I will ever do. The real only winner is the lease company. No exposure and a mass of profit. Screw em. Go get a bank loan and pay towards ownership. Then you can do what you want with your vehicle without someone telling you it needs to be brought back to showroom original condition or you will have to pay to make it that way.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< The biggest question you need to ask yourself is "How long do I plan to keep the car"?

If you are like me, and you tire of the same car quickly, and you dump them every couple years, leasing is the way to go. You get cheaper payments, and you'll never be upside down, assuming you don't put any money down on a loan.

If you like to keep your cars more than two or three years, stretch out your financing another year and just go for the loan.

I just recently leased a used car through my credit union. I did it for 3 years at 15,000 miles a year. I get charged $.10 a mile for my overages, which is pretty dang cheap. I'm happy with it because by the time I'm done with my lease, I'll be in expensive wear and tear replacment time for my car and instead of paying $300 for new tires, $250 for struts, $300 for timing chain, ect, I just turn in the car and walk away. Nothing to hassle with.

It works well for me since I have pretty high turnover in vehicles. Leasing isn't for everyone though.
>>



When my insurance rates drop in December, I will probably consider leasing something. I get bored quickly, so leasing sounds like the perfect solution.

Right now though I can't afford the comprehensive insurance, so I get to take the bus or buy a cheap car.

Viper GTS
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
4,911
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0
Well as of right now the main car I am looking at is a '95 to '97 Eagle Talon, if that helps any.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0


<< and when you return the vehicle, the dealer will go over it with a fine tooth comb and hit you with every ding, stain, scratch and all the milage on the tires >>



That's not always true. For example, BMW has a clearly defined, and documented, perception of what constitutes irregular wear-and-tear. Scratches are going to happen, that can be prevented, and BMW knows that. Huge dents, and huge scratches, however, should be resolved before turning in your vehicle. I would hope you would do the same thing for any vehicle your purchase. Also, by reading about the experiences of many other BMW leasers, they weren't charged for mile overage either. I don't believe I've read a single instance where someone was charged for their return, especially if they leased/bought another BMW.

Of course, that's just my experience with BMW, I don't know about any of the other car manufacturers. As I said before, BMW has a really high residual on their vehicles, so leasing roughly equates to same as purchasing a vehicle, provided that you do indeed drop the vehicle after 3 years.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,423
8,227
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<< Unless you have a tax position that a lease maybe deducted for, say, a business whereby the vehicle is used for business purposes, I would not advise a lease. The residual almost always is higher than the value,and when you return the vehicle, the dealer will go over it with a fine tooth comb and hit you with every ding, stain, scratch and all the milage on the tires. Then ,you are governed by how many miles you can drive. If you sign for 12000/yr or even 15000/yr, you will find yourself out of free miles and paying milage at rates like $.10/mile for all overage at the end of the lease.

I have leased two vehicles and I do use them in business, but this is the last lease I will ever do. The real only winner is the lease company. No exposure and a mass of profit. Screw em. Go get a bank loan and pay towards ownership. Then you can do what you want with your vehicle without someone telling you it needs to be brought back to showroom original condition or you will have to pay to make it that way.
>>



While that is true, it really depends upon individual usage. Almost all my vehicle use is highway driving either between home and work, or for roadtrips to see family members or for vacations. I seldom abuse my car and I do keep my vehicles in excellent condition. I also have a very good relationship with the lendor(leasing company) and I have a $1500 damage leanience that protects me from minor dings and dents and small scratches and scuffs that may occur. The leasing company also assumes that the car is three years old and that it will have some minor cosmetic flaws that are pretty much a given for a vehicle of that age to have.

As for the miles, my overage of $.10 a mile is actually cheaper than the depriciation/resale hit I'd take if I was to trade it in. Many dealers factor in $.12 to $.15 a mile for milage penaties when a trade in comes. So, if I put on an extra 10,000 miles on my car, my bank will only charge me $1000 for it, while a dealer will hit me with a $1200-$1500 penalty. I actually come out ahead.

As for the values of the car when I'm done...well the higher they inflate the residual value, the lower my payments are. I'm not going to be buying the car at the end of the deal anyway so what's it matter to me.

As for why I trade in cars so often, well, they are what I choose to spend extra money on. I don't upgrade my computer often. I don't get cable television. I don't pay for expensive internet access. I don't spend lots of money on name brand clothing. Ect. ect. ect. All those things alone can add up to a couple hundred bucks a month. They pay for a large chunk of my car payments. I spend so much time in my car, I prefer to have something very nice, and very new, and under warranty at all times. It's a personal preference and it works out very well for me.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
In regards to dealer being anal my father has always leased. He has brought one of his vehicles back with a small dent on the back, some minor ripped fabric etc. - since he was about to lease another car from the same dealer they didn't even mention it. If they're gonna get crazy and write it all up you can just go elsewhere and let them know.

Of course if you don't like to stay with the same dealer they could be anal but I'm not sure they all would be. I suppose you won't know till you bring it back. Personally I'm a clutz. I got a nice bit of oil in my backseat a couple days ago; leases aren't good for people like me
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,423
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<< Well as of right now the main car I am looking at is a '95 to '97 Eagle Talon, if that helps any. >>



For starters, you're are not going to find a company that will even touch a lease on that. Second, even if they would, the monthly payments between a lease and financing would be so ridiculously marginal that you'd be stupid not finance it. Third, if you are having problems affording the monthly payments, you better rethink the whole deal because those cars are not known to be the most reliable, or the cheapest to repair. Budget in AT LEAST $50 USD a month for maintanence, because YOU WILL need it.

IMO, you'd be better off looking into one of the promotions being offered by Toyota or Honda for a Civic or Corolla for $200 a month.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Go out and get the new issue of Smart Money magazine. There's a very long article about leasing used cars with some good suggestions on which cars are the most appealing from a cost standpoint, how to negotiate the lease and how to leverage the balance of a new car warranty. For the couple of bucks it costs at a newsstand, you'll be glad you did.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
4,911
0
0
I was looking for something a little more sporty then a corolla, a civic is still a possibility, but I really like the talons. Maybe I will just finance one.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,434
304
126
Generally, stay away from a lease unless it is on a popular import car with a VERY high resale value like a Camry or Accord and it has all of the options people want, or a popular Sport Utility Vehicle with a VERY high resale value and has all of the options people want. I've seen SUV leases where the resale value is higher than the residual value. People have bought the vehicle when the lease was over then sold them and made $500 - $1,000. People who qualifiy for auto employees discounts on leases do this all the time.

What is residual value? And what effect does it have on your lease payment? Taken from Edmunds: Leasing Tips:

Let's start with a simple definition of residual value. In fact, let's just look at the word "residual". Residual means the part that is left after some of it has been taken away.

OK, so how does this apply to leasing? Well, when you lease a car, you pay for that portion of the car's value that you use. In other words, let's say you leased a $20,000 car for three years, and it was worth $10,000 at the end of the lease. In this scenario, you've used $10,000 worth of the car's value, or 50 percent of the car's original price. Your payments would be $10,000 divided into 36 monthly payments of $277 (plus interest, tax and related fees).

Now, let's stick with that same example. What if the car you had decided to lease didn't lose 50 percent of its value over three years? Instead, it lost only 35 percent of its value. Then, your $20,000 car would only have lost $7,000 of its value. Your monthly payments would be $194 (plus interest, tax and fees).

You can see from these two examples that the residual value has resulted in a much lower monthly payment. And when you're leasing, monthly payment is where it's at. Right?

Well, not always.

Say you decide to lease because you don't want to make a large down payment, and you want low monthly payments (this is one of the advantages of leasing over buying). However, three years go by, and you have developed an attachment to the car. So much of an attachment, in fact, that you decide to buy the car. If the residual value has been artificially inflated to give you a low monthly payment (this is called a subvented lease and is done by manufacturers to move slow-selling cars off their lots), you will have to pay more for this car than for an identical used vehicle.

So, the bottom line is, you should keep your eye on residual values as you shop for a car, and also when you negotiate your leasing contract. But how can you do this? After all, is the residual something the consumer can negotiate? Where do these values come from?

The banks that issue the lease contracts set residual values. The residual value is their best guess as to what the car will be worth at the end of the lease. They base their projections on data from past models and a prediction of what consumer tastes will be.

In most cases, you can't negotiate the residual value. However, you can ? and should ? shop for a lease based on the residual value. Going back to the example at the beginning, it is obvious that the less a car depreciates, the less you pay to use it. This is why, when you lease a car, you can afford to drive a more expensive car than when you buy one. You might hear car salespeople say, "You can drive more car, for less, when you lease."

Does this sound too good to be true? Well, here's why they say that.

If you lease a $35,000 German luxury car for three years and it has a residual value of 70 percent, it is worth $24,500 at the end of the lease. It has only lost $10,500 of its value, and you will have paid $291 a month (plus interest, tax and related fees). Now compare that to, say, a $25,000 American-made minivan that has a residual value of 50 percent after three years. The minivan has lost $12,500 of its value, and the monthly payment would be about $347 a month.

(I should stress that the figures I'm estimating here do not include interest, which is a big part of the lease payment. For purposes of comparison, the German luxury car, leased at 7 percent interest rate, with $0 down payment, would include $173 worth of interest each month, for a total of $465. And that still doesn't include tax. Additionally, that residual figure of 70 percent after three years is probably non-existent; I used the number to prove the point.)

As you can see, the residual value is an important part of the leasing equation. So before you decide what kind of a car you want to lease, you should consider which cars hold their value well.

If you want to check the residual rates of current model cars, look in the Black Book, which is put out each quarter. The Black Book may be available at your local bank in its auto loan department. Online, check the Web site for the Automotive Leasing Guide. Residual values are automatically inserted and monthly payments are approximated.

Remember that the residual value is different each year. It might be 70 percent after one year, 60 percent after two, 50 percent after three, and so on.

The residual value isn't the only factor influencing your lease payment. But it is one of the most important points to consider. Watch it carefully, and you'll enjoy driving your leased vehicle a whole lot more.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
4,911
0
0
How about a brand new Jeep wrangler, would that be a better bet for a lease? How much would you expect the monthly lease payments for say a 2002 Jeep wrangler fully loaded, to be? Say a 3 year lease, what other info do you need?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,423
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You'd probably be much better off leasing a year or two old one. Wranglers take a pretty good depreciation hit. Buying a year or two old will save you probably over $5,000. I really depends on what deals are running around on new vehicle leases from Jeep itself. Sometimes companies overinflate the residual value of their new vehicles to make a lease more inticing option. All it takes is a phone call to a jeep dealer and they can pretty much slam out a lease price in a matter of a couple minutes.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,423
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Here's a lease calculator that you can use to give you somewhat of an idea what you'll be looking at for payments.
 
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