should i propose "nap time" at my local high school?

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Since you gave up rather than read the thread

This has no bearing on it because THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT KIDS, THEIR SLEEP CYCLES, AND THE AMOUNT OF SLEEP THEY REQUIRE. NOT ADULTS.

Look, I know it's embarassing to move your lips when reading. I know it's embarassing if, when reading the same thing someone else is reading, they finish, read the paper, go to the store, come back and want to discuss what they & you originally read - and you're still working on reading it, carefully sounding out the words as you go. But it will never get any easier if you don't work on it.

As an added bonus, people on internet forums might believe you if you tell them you have a diploma, when you tailor your discussions to reflect comprehension of what has already been discussed in a post.

Again I ask: do you honestly think that your sarcastic comments help your arguments or cause people to think more highly of you? Do you believe that the comments, perhaps, make you look more important or intelligent than others?

Then again, maybe you don't care what people think of you. If that's the case, then please realize that your comments do affect the way others deal with you and believe your statements. If you're trying to convince others, you're shooting yourself in the foot with the attitude you project.

 

[Gurck]

Honestly don't care what someone who can't be bothered reading before making scathing comments thinks. I'm no intelligence snob, but when you're delving into chimp IQ territory I draw the line.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Honestly don't care what someone who can't be bothered reading before making scathing comments thinks. I'm no intelligence snob, but when you're delving into chimp IQ territory I draw the line.

Sounds to me like you make assumptions about intelligence based on whether someone reads every single word you write. Is that logical? (no, I'm not looking for a response, it's entirely rhetorical - just want you to consider it.)

Earlier, you made the comment earlier that *I* should try reading sometime. How are the comments you made to me any different than the comments you made to Smoochy? Or am I also in that "chimp IQ" category? If so, I'll just leave you here to bask in your own glory. If not, perhaps you will realize that you're making unfounded, sarcastic, hateful comments based on isolated observations.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Earlier, you made the comment earlier that *I* should try reading sometime. How are the comments you made to me any different than the comments you made to Smoochy? Or am I also in that "chimp IQ" category? If so, I'll just leave you here to bask in your own glory. If not, perhaps you will realize that you're making unfounded, sarcastic, hateful comments based on isolated observations.

-You didn't say anything that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread
-You didn't continue to say anything, reply after reply, that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread

The IQ dig wasn't directed at you.

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Earlier, you made the comment earlier that *I* should try reading sometime. How are the comments you made to me any different than the comments you made to Smoochy? Or am I also in that "chimp IQ" category? If so, I'll just leave you here to bask in your own glory. If not, perhaps you will realize that you're making unfounded, sarcastic, hateful comments based on isolated observations.

-You didn't say anything that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread
-You didn't continue to say anything, reply after reply, that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread

The IQ dig wasn't directed at you.

Then why did you make the sarcastic comment to me in the first place? Because it was a dig, a sarcastic comment. Why do it? It just causes people to reject you from the initial onset. I know first hand, because I had to will myself to overlook your comment and attempt to speak to you with respect... something I wasn't shown by you.

You probably won't change your sarcastic comments one bit. However, I did want to make you aware that the little digs and barbs you throw out do not help you to convince others... of sleep disorders, or melatonin levels, or of your own intelligence. You're probably very intelligent... but your comments turn people completely off before they find out for themselves... regardless of whether you're right or wrong about a topic. I guarantee you'll convince far more people without the constant digs... regardless of whether a person deserves the dig or not (and, in this thread, I don't think anyone has deserved it).

 

[Wheatmaster]

jebus guys calm down

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
jebus guys calm down

Perfectly calm, here. However, I do apologize for my part in the thread hijack.

Back to the question you asked (which is why we're in this thread for in the first place): Where do you guys normally hang out during free periods? In the hall, outside, or in a room somewhere?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Earlier, you made the comment earlier that *I* should try reading sometime. How are the comments you made to me any different than the comments you made to Smoochy? Or am I also in that "chimp IQ" category? If so, I'll just leave you here to bask in your own glory. If not, perhaps you will realize that you're making unfounded, sarcastic, hateful comments based on isolated observations.

-You didn't say anything that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread
-You didn't continue to say anything, reply after reply, that made it *that* blatantly obvious that you hadn't read the thread

The IQ dig wasn't directed at you.

Then why did you make the sarcastic comment to me in the first place? Because it was a dig, a sarcastic comment. Why do it? It just causes people to reject you from the initial onset. I know first hand, because I had to will myself to overlook your comment and attempt to speak to you with respect... something I wasn't shown by you.

You probably won't change your sarcastic comments one bit. However, I did want to make you aware that the little digs and barbs you throw out do not help you to convince others... of sleep disorders, or melatonin levels, or of your own intelligence. You're probably very intelligent... but your comments turn people completely off before they find out for themselves... regardless of whether you're right or wrong about a topic. I guarantee you'll convince far more people without the constant digs... regardless of whether a person deserves the dig or not (and, in this thread, I don't think anyone has deserved it).

I see it differently. Truth is truth, regardless of its presentation. If I were to say "1+1=2, you moron", would I be wrong because you didn't like my tone?

I try to be nice until someone acts otherwise, not necessarily to me. Smugly commenting on how easy it is to turn out the lights and go to sleep or on how (despite research proving otherwise) kids only need 3-4 hours of sleep constitutes that, and the frequency of that way of thinking (or lack thereof) and comments like that in this post got me riled up.

At any rate, I mentioned before that I think moving the start time back by an hour or two is a better & much more feasible option than having a designated time/place to sleep once at school. However you want to tackle it though, it's a definite problem.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: Gurck
And again, OCD and bipolar aren't sleep disorders. Your examples have no place in this discussion.

bipolar disorder has a hell of a lot to do with sleep cycles. do some research.

Originally posted by: Gurck
In my case there was no lack of discipline or bad routine, no too-important friends to stay up to hang out with, no too-important video games to play or tv shows to watch, etc. Often would lay in bed for many hours, sometimes even all night. Does trying concertedly to do something for 6-8 hours constitute lack of discipline? Your mom's family likely grew up to be and raise people who scoff at anyone not exactly like them, who think everyone's the same, etc. At least, going by leap of logic and the example you've provided. I'd call that abnormal, yes.

sounds like YOU are the one with the sleeping disorder, not everyone who managed to get a decent amount of sleep in high school.

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
look guys my point is that i think there should be a area where students can rest, take a nap, etc during their free periods.

can't they go home and do that? besides, chances are no one would take advantage of it anyway.

Originally posted by: Gurck
At any rate, I mentioned before that I think moving the start time back by an hour or two is a better & much more feasible option than having a designated time/place to sleep once at school. However you want to tackle it though, it's a definite problem.

an hour or two? so you think kids should get out around 4? that way they can make it home in time for dinner, do their homework, and go straight to bed. excellent!

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: Gurck
I see it differently. Truth is truth, regardless of its presentation. If I were to say "1+1=2, you moron", would I be wrong because you didn't like my tone?

I try to be nice until someone acts otherwise, not necessarily to me. Smugly commenting on how easy it is to turn out the lights and go to sleep or on how (despite research proving otherwise) kids only need 3-4 hours of sleep constitutes that, and the frequency of that way of thinking (or lack thereof) and comments like that in this post got me riled up.

Whether you're right or wrong is not the point. I said, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, the way you present it causes people to accept or reject you and your statements, without finding out whether you're right or wrong. You may think people are ignorant for not believing you, but it's human nature (and, very possibly, hormonal as well) to trust and believe those who are kind to them and to reject those who are unkind... whether they are right or wrong. Your comments to many of us were unkind.

I did not say any of those above "smug comments" before you made your sarcastic comment to me. I asked Wheatmaster (not you), "What is it that prevents you from getting 6½ to 9 hours of sleep a night?" To which, you replied, "Hormones; specificially, what time in the evening melatonin is released in relation to what time one must wake up for their morning obligations. Again, reading is a good thing. Try it some time." The first part was fine - if it had stopped there, your comment would have made much more positive impact.

Do you not see where you took an unwarranted, cheap shot at me? I'm pointing it out to you because you seem to do it without thinking or realizing it.

Taking your frustrations out on me (or others, for that matter) doesn't do you any good - it just makes you look like a mean-spirited, sarcastic person. However, it is clear that you see no wrong in your comments, so there's not much more I can say except that I hope that you learn to be more tolerant of people who don't see things the way you do, or do things in the same manner as you do, or think as quickly as you do. If you don't... well, it doesn't affect me any... so I don't even see why I'm trying so hard.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Go to bed earlier.

if you were in high school, they you would know that is physically and mentally not possible.

The solution is to propose for less homeowork! not nap time!

 

[PCMarine]

How about instead of proposing a nap time, you propose to start school maybe 30 mins or an hour later than what time it started in the past. Then have school run 30-60 minutes longer at the end of the day.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: TreyRandom

Originally posted by: Gurck
I see it differently. Truth is truth, regardless of its presentation. If I were to say "1+1=2, you moron", would I be wrong because you didn't like my tone?

I try to be nice until someone acts otherwise, not necessarily to me. Smugly commenting on how easy it is to turn out the lights and go to sleep or on how (despite research proving otherwise) kids only need 3-4 hours of sleep constitutes that, and the frequency of that way of thinking (or lack thereof) and comments like that in this post got me riled up.

Whether you're right or wrong is not the point. I said, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, the way you present it causes people to accept or reject you and your statements, without finding out whether you're right or wrong. You may think people are ignorant for not believing you, but it's human nature (and, very possibly, hormonal as well) to trust and believe those who are kind to them and to reject those who are unkind... whether they are right or wrong. Your comments to many of us were unkind.

I did not say any of those above "smug comments" before you made your sarcastic comment to me. I asked Wheatmaster (not you), "What is it that prevents you from getting 6½ to 9 hours of sleep a night?" To which, you replied, "Hormones; specificially, what time in the evening melatonin is released in relation to what time one must wake up for their morning obligations. Again, reading is a good thing. Try it some time." The first part was fine - if it had stopped there, your comment would have made much more positive impact.

Do you not see where you took an unwarranted, cheap shot at me? I'm pointing it out to you because you seem to do it without thinking or realizing it.

Taking your frustrations out on me (or others, for that matter) doesn't do you any good - it just makes you look like a mean-spirited, sarcastic person. However, it is clear that you see no wrong in your comments, so there's not much more I can say except that I hope that you learn to be more tolerant of people who don't see things the way you do, or do things in the same manner as you do, or think as quickly as you do. If you don't... well, it doesn't affect me any... so I don't even see why I'm trying so hard.

My comments justifying what research has proven and asking people to read the thread before commenting are unkind... Yet people calling the OP and by association, anyone who agrees with him "whiners", insinuating their young age, and claiming that anyone who has problems sleeping is a whiner, stupid, undisciplined, or all three is just fine & dandy? I'll agree I went a bit too far with an unprovoked sarcastic comment toward you, but that's all. I'm far from the only one who's been unkind, and I didn't begin that behavior in the thread. It's very frustrating to have someone make a claim, to refute it (politely and logically), then have ten people who couldn't be bothered reading the thread make the same claim.

 

[OverVolt]

Well, while you guys are busy bickering like old women, i can tell you first hand that at least ~30% (an etimate) of the kids in my HS have trouble getting enough sleep. I know because ive asked some of the kids who fall asleep in class all the time how much sleep they get. Now, we've established that not getting enough sleep = poorer health, grades, etc. than if you had the proper amount of sleep (which if u had read, had been stated to be different for every person). So obviously not getting enough sleep, and sleep disorders are a problem that needs to be dealt with. From what i read there seems to be two main opinions on teen sleep and HS: "close your eyes (duh) and goto sleep like a baby, and be more diciplined about prioitizing and when to get off the TV/PC etc." or "schools should do something to accomodate for teens later release of melatonin (sp?)." Now, im sure that dicipline (and a lack of X) does have some effect on when we goto sleep, probably just out of habit. It's easy to get in the habit of going to bed late with all the activities, projects, and homework that me and everyone else faces in HS. I don't think its too unreasonable for HS's to start later and evaluate if grades are improving. I would say the same goes for a nap room, or just an area where students are allowed to sleep on their free periods. (not like a kindergarden 'nap time')

 

[Wheatmaster]

Originally posted by: PCMarine
How about instead of proposing a nap time, you propose to start school maybe 30 mins or an hour later than what time it started in the past. Then have school run 30-60 minutes longer at the end of the day.

eh that won't really work because there are sports practices and after school clubs which would be even later.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: OverVolt
I don't think its too unreasonable for HS's to start later and evaluate if grades are improving.

Pretty sure this has been tried and grades have indeed markedly improved. Just too many people in the educational institution with the "f*ck 'em, we do it, they can" mentality; laymen who know nothing about developmental physiology and sleep patterns; people like many who've posted here, for something like this to have happened thus far. I expect an 8:30-9am start to be the nom for high schools within 15-20 years

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Orsorum
1) kids can use routine and control their hormonal urge to wake up later.
2) Kids can use discipline and say "no" to more tv and go to bed earlier. Can't simply stay up late on cue.

So was my mom's family abnormal because they woke up before 6AM and were doing chores and other farm stuff for the majority of their childhoods?

In my case there was no lack of discipline or bad routine, no too-important friends to stay up to hang out with, no too-important video games to play or tv shows to watch, etc. Often would lay in bed for many hours, sometimes even all night. Does trying concertedly to do something for 6-8 hours constitute lack of discipline? Your mom's family likely grew up to be and raise people who scoff at anyone not exactly like them, who think everyone's the same, etc. At least, going by leap of logic and the example you've provided. I'd call that abnormal, yes.

My mom and her family grew up to be very open-minded people, for the most part very close-knit, very accepting of other people. They've also learned to realize that not everyone is the same - but that hard work and discipline are good solutions for many of life's ailments.

As for "this is regarding kids" - I'm 20 years old, I live in a community of college students, I have friends that are still in high school or recently graduated. I'm not that far removed from the world of youth. Yet few of the teens I've spoken with blame their sleep problems on anyone other than themselves.

You're not convincing anyone, you keep resorting to ad hominem attacks for some reason. I'm asking you to explain a) why discipline doesn't solve this problem, b) why time management doesn't solve this problem, and c) why moving the school day back an hour would solve the problem - all you would do in this case is shift the time schedule back an hour, you're not solving the root causes, which are a lack of discipline in scheduling and trying to fit in too many activities into a fixed-hour day.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I'm asking you to explain a) why discipline doesn't solve this problem, b) why time management doesn't solve this problem, and c) why moving the school day back an hour would solve the problem - all you would do in this case is shift the time schedule back an hour, you're not solving the root causes, which are a lack of discipline in scheduling and trying to fit in too many activities into a fixed-hour day.

Hehe, good one. I'm not taking the bait though. No way you've seriously managed to not read something that's been mentioned at least a dozen times in this thread. No way in hell. Nice try

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I'm asking you to explain a) why discipline doesn't solve this problem, b) why time management doesn't solve this problem, and c) why moving the school day back an hour would solve the problem - all you would do in this case is shift the time schedule back an hour, you're not solving the root causes, which are a lack of discipline in scheduling and trying to fit in too many activities into a fixed-hour day.

Hehe, good one. I'm not taking the bait though. No way you've seriously managed to not read something that's been mentioned at least a dozen times in this thread. No way in hell. Nice try

What bait? Are you talking about the "hormonal cycle" that you've mentioned a few times? I'm aware of this as well, I knew it when I was in Jr. High and high school, I railed against it once or twice, but I never had issues with missing classes, nor did I have issues with failing classes because of it, nor did most of my friends. The ones that did had other issues, like bi-polar.

Please, answer those three questions and I'll stop treating you like an adolescent troll.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Please, answer those three questions and I'll stop treating you like an adolescent troll.

I have more than once, won't again. I like how you rail against ad hominem attacks, accuse me of doing it, and finish up with this. Are you going for some kind of hypocrisy record?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Please, answer those three questions and I'll stop treating you like an adolescent troll.

I have more than once, won't again. I like how you rail against ad hominem attacks, accuse me of doing it, and finish up with this. Are you going for some kind of hypocrisy record?

That's not an ad hominem attack, just an observation of the way you're posting. If I said "Your mom's family likely grew up to be and raise people who scoff at anyone not exactly like them, who think everyone's the same, etc.", then yes, that would be considered an ad hominem attack.

And from what I've read you haven't answered the three questions. Could you point it out?

 

[goblue420]

not worth the hassel, its not like yore gonn get it...

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Please, answer those three questions and I'll stop treating you like an adolescent troll.

I have more than once, won't again. I like how you rail against ad hominem attacks, accuse me of doing it, and finish up with this. Are you going for some kind of hypocrisy record?

That's not an ad hominem attack, just an observation of the way you're posting. If I said "Your mom's family likely grew up to be and raise people who scoff at anyone not exactly like them, who think everyone's the same, etc.", then yes, that would be considered an ad hominem attack.

And from what I've read you haven't answered the three questions. Could you point it out?

Ok, so if I were to say you have a room temperature IQ, that you're about as literate as a dead rat, and that I'd be surprised if you were any older than 15 - could I pass that off as observations and not attacks as well? Give me a break. I caught you in a bit of blatant hypocrisy, at least 'fess up and save a little face.

Your three questions are really just faces of one and it has been answered ad nauseum. I will not repeat the stated basic facts that answer it. Read.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Ok, so if I were to say you have a room temperature IQ, that you're about as literate as a dead rat, and that I'd be surprised if you were any older than 15 - could I pass that off as observations and not attacks as well? Give me a break. I caught you in a bit of blatant hypocrisy, at least 'fess up and save a little face.

Your three questions are really just faces of one and it has been answered ad nauseum. I will not repeat the stated basic facts that answer it. Read.

Have fun with your ad homs. You're not worth my time or my energy.

And I'll consider your question unanswered, as nothing I've read from you even begins to address the basic premise of personal responsibility.

 

[ColdFusion718]

Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
i know you may think this is a joke, but i'm serious. i watched that ABC special last night about sleep and i think something needs to be done. i'm considering doing research that would prove sleep helps grades, health, etc and show to my school and propose that they offer a "nap room" at my school so if students have free periods, they can get some rest. i really think the pros would outbalance the cons (cons being people would sometimes be late, not want to get up, etc). What do you guys think? should i just bail on this because too many people would think this is a joke?