Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: Orsorum
1) kids can use routine and control their hormonal urge to wake up later.
2) Kids can use discipline and say "no" to more tv and go to bed earlier. Can't simply stay up late on cue.
So was my mom's family abnormal because they woke up before 6AM and were doing chores and other farm stuff for the majority of their childhoods?
In my case there was no lack of discipline or bad routine, no too-important friends to stay up to hang out with, no too-important video games to play or tv shows to watch, etc. Often would lay in bed for many hours, sometimes even all night. Does trying concertedly to do something for 6-8 hours constitute lack of discipline? Your mom's family likely grew up to be and raise people who scoff at anyone not exactly like them, who think everyone's the same, etc. At least, going by leap of logic and the example you've provided. I'd call that abnormal, yes.
But, Gurck, you're assuming that MOST people have the same sleeping problems you had. That's simply not the case. Most kids hit the bed exhausted and fall right to sleep... as did I, when I had the sense to stop playing on the computer at 2:30 in the morning and go to bed.
Originally posted by: Gurck
You kids done with the silly jokes yet?
Originally posted by: Gurck
While I'll agree I'm an exceptional case, I don't believe it's anything different than what many others go through - merely more pronounced.
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: Gurck
While I'll agree I'm an exceptional case, I don't believe it's anything different than what many others go through - merely more pronounced.
Well, at this point, it would be unproductive to continue the discussion any further, because 100 people on ATOT could tell you their experiences with not having problems sleeping and you would still not agree that most children do not have these terrible sleeping problems that affect them throughout the day. We would simply go back and forth arguing simply because I do not have any researched data in front of me.
I touched on it when agreeing with another poster who mentioned this. I agree, but don't think it's the entire problem. Whether or not they lack discipline would become apparent if schools started at a time more in line with natural sleep cycles. If so, it's their problem. Blaming them for evolution is insane though.Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Further, you have yet to address the problem that many kids DO have - discipline in going to bed rather than staying up for whatever non-hormonal reason. You simply avoid the discussion as if it doesn't matter by responding that YOU were not that way. We know you weren't like that, Gurck. We do realize that you had trouble getting to sleep for hours, and had trouble waking up in the mornings. I'm honestly sorry that you had those problems. But most children don't have those same problems. If they did, parents across the country would petition their school boards for later start times. And that's just not happening. Most children and teens who do not get enough sleep do so of their own volition. If you disagree, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Originally posted by: Gurck
While I'll agree I'm an exceptional case, I don't believe it's anything different than what many others go through - merely more pronounced.
Well, at this point, it would be unproductive to continue the discussion any further, because 100 people on ATOT could tell you their experiences with not having problems sleeping and you would still not agree that most children do not have these terrible sleeping problems that affect them throughout the day. We would simply go back and forth arguing simply because I do not have any researched data in front of me.
I touched on it when agreeing with another poster who mentioned this. I agree, but don't think it's the entire problem. Whether or not they lack discipline would become apparent if schools started at a time more in line with natural sleep cycles. If so, it's their problem. Blaming them for evolution is insane though.Originally posted by: TreyRandom
Further, you have yet to address the problem that many kids DO have - discipline in going to bed rather than staying up for whatever non-hormonal reason. You simply avoid the discussion as if it doesn't matter by responding that YOU were not that way. We know you weren't like that, Gurck. We do realize that you had trouble getting to sleep for hours, and had trouble waking up in the mornings. I'm honestly sorry that you had those problems. But most children don't have those same problems. If they did, parents across the country would petition their school boards for later start times. And that's just not happening. Most children and teens who do not get enough sleep do so of their own volition. If you disagree, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You obviously haven't read the thread. I won't condone this laziness / lack of literacy by doing cliffs' notes for you.Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Yeah, I could see it now. Telling my boss when she wants me in at 6:00 am that I can't because it's not in line with my natural sleep cycle. Then I would proceed to blame her for evolution.
Originally posted by: Gurck
You obviously haven't read the thread. I won't condone this laziness / lack of literacy by doing cliffs' notes for you.Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Yeah, I could see it now. Telling my boss when she wants me in at 6:00 am that I can't because it's not in line with my natural sleep cycle. Then I would proceed to blame her for evolution.
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
What kind of business do you own at 26? I'm just curious.
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.
I bet you really think you are fighting against a world of ignorance. That you have the answer, a mere inkling of what possibly could be a universal truth. But the dumb masses keep you down, they silence you. Your voice, unheard, you fight with all the wit you have to get your point across. So much to the point that you've spent hours, over the internet, in front of...no one, influencing...no one; convincing...no one; trying with all your intellectual devices to say "Please! Listen to me! Believe in what I have to say! I am right, these people are wrong because they choose to disagree!" And yet still, not to the effect in which you are satisfied; the only real person that is convinced is you. You've been exposed to so many stupid, immature people today that you have lost respect for Anandtech Forums; more people...that are "beneath" you socially, intellectually, hormonally, and sexually. If it makes you feel any better, I believe you; I really do think you have trouble sleeping...it's hard being comfortable on tear soaked pillows.
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.
I bet you really think you are fighting against a world of ignorance. That you have the answer, a mere inkling of what possibly could be a universal truth. But the dumb masses keep you down, they silence you. Your voice, unheard, you fight with all the wit you have to get your point across. So much to the point that you've spent hours, over the internet, in front of...no one, influencing...no one; convincing...no one; trying with all your intellectual devices to say "Please! Listen to me! Believe in what I have to say! I am right, these people are wrong because they choose to disagree!" And yet still, not to the effect in which you are satisfied; the only real person that is convinced is you. You've been exposed to so many stupid, immature people today that you have lost respect for Anandtech Forums; more people...that are "beneath" you socially, intellectually, hormonally, and sexually. If it makes you feel any better, I believe you; I really do think you have trouble sleeping...it's hard being comfortable on tear soaked pillows.
Wow, where did all this come from? Case of projection, perhaps?
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.
I bet you really think you are fighting against a world of ignorance. That you have the answer, a mere inkling of what possibly could be a universal truth. But the dumb masses keep you down, they silence you. Your voice, unheard, you fight with all the wit you have to get your point across. So much to the point that you've spent hours, over the internet, in front of...no one, influencing...no one; convincing...no one; trying with all your intellectual devices to say "Please! Listen to me! Believe in what I have to say! I am right, these people are wrong because they choose to disagree!" And yet still, not to the effect in which you are satisfied; the only real person that is convinced is you. You've been exposed to so many stupid, immature people today that you have lost respect for Anandtech Forums; more people...that are "beneath" you socially, intellectually, hormonally, and sexually. If it makes you feel any better, I believe you; I really do think you have trouble sleeping...it's hard being comfortable on tear soaked pillows.
Wow, where did all this come from? Case of projection, perhaps?
homegrocer.com
Originally posted by: Wheatmaster
look guys my point is that i think there should be a area where students can rest, take a nap, etc during their free periods.
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
Originally posted by: Gurck
I'd argue that most are affected and don't know it. If asked, they'd have the typical response, conditioned by a societal norm of idiocy - something like the "lolololo stop wining u r dum" sentiment we've seen so much of already in this thread.
I bet you really think you are fighting against a world of ignorance. That you have the answer, a mere inkling of what possibly could be a universal truth. But the dumb masses keep you down, they silence you. Your voice, unheard, you fight with all the wit you have to get your point across. So much to the point that you've spent hours, over the internet, in front of...no one, influencing...no one; convincing...no one; trying with all your intellectual devices to say "Please! Listen to me! Believe in what I have to say! I am right, these people are wrong because they choose to disagree!" And yet still, not to the effect in which you are satisfied; the only real person that is convinced is you. You've been exposed to so many stupid, immature people today that you have lost respect for Anandtech Forums; more people...that are "beneath" you socially, intellectually, hormonally, and sexually. If it makes you feel any better, I believe you; I really do think you have trouble sleeping...it's hard being comfortable on tear soaked pillows.
Wow, where did all this come from? Case of projection, perhaps?
homegrocer.com
Not even going to bother with the link. I just honestly have no idea where this came from. The thread is about children and sleep cycles, and you come out of left field with this long diatribe on ... something You certainly seem to have a pretty intimate knowledge of whatever it is you spewed.
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
What kind of business do you own at 26? I'm just curious.
Speculation. I never said I was wildly successful, but I manage to slide by. As far as not providing cliffs' notes, I'll throw a hint your way since you so adamantly refuse to read the thread. The hint is "Age". Figure it out.
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
What kind of business do you own at 26? I'm just curious.
Speculation. I never said I was wildly successful, but I manage to slide by. As far as not providing cliffs' notes, I'll throw a hint your way since you so adamantly refuse to read the thread. The hint is "Age". Figure it out.
I never asked you for Cliff notes. I did, however, ask you what you think natural sleep cycles are. But this being the third time I've asked you this question, you seemingly have a problem with your reading comprehension skills.
Same way you didn't answer what kind of business you own.
And BTW darling, I'm older than you.
Originally posted by: SackOfAllTrades
not really, just what I observe from people like you
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
What kind of business do you own at 26? I'm just curious.
Speculation. I never said I was wildly successful, but I manage to slide by. As far as not providing cliffs' notes, I'll throw a hint your way since you so adamantly refuse to read the thread. The hint is "Age". Figure it out.
I never asked you for Cliff notes. I did, however, ask you what you think natural sleep cycles are. But this being the third time I've asked you this question, you seemingly have a problem with your reading comprehension skills.
Same way you didn't answer what kind of business you own.
And BTW darling, I'm older than you.
You just keep digging yourself in deeper Please, stop posting & start reading. Then you'll see why I don't have to answer what natural sleep cycles are for an adult in the workforce. I never claimed any knowledge of your age, not sure where you're coming from with that... grasping at straws? I answered your question on what I do.
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
I will stop posting in this thread. You've made yourself look bad enough as it is already.
Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Yeah, I could see it now. Telling my boss when she wants me in at 6:00 am that I can't because it's not in line with my natural sleep cycle. Then I would proceed to blame her for evolution.
Originally posted by: Gurck
I couldn't agree more. I had to drop physics my senior year since it was first period and I simply couldn't wake up on time (school started at 7:30). I shared second period that year between physics lab and gym, which I came close to failing due to absences. I failed (teacher gave me a 65, but I really failed) calc that year, which I had third period. Same thing with 4th period English... On top of getting a 58 average, I gave that teacher hell on the few occasions I was awake Was pretty nice of him to pass me hehehe... It didn't help my GPA, which ended up 3.4. I could have done a lot better. It's a sad state of affairs when the educational institution is full of the "we know best, research is wrong" mentality
For those who have no idea what this is about and didn't bother reading: Kids & young adults just literally need more sleep. At younger ages this is usually OK because their bodies release melatonin (sleep hormone) earlier, causing them to be zonked by 9-10, and grade & middle schools usually start later than HS. But it doesn't start till 11 for many high-school age kids, and they might not be asleep till midnight. Nothing to do with discipline, just physiology. Then they have to wake up after 6-7 hours for school, when their bodies in that stage of development need 9-10. This holds true till growth stops completely, afaik, which can be as late as 20/21.